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Posted by: Steve91T Jul 22 2016, 05:47 AM

Man I'm excited. Dailydriver posted his car for sale and I could tell from that add that it was much loved and well taken care of. Unfortunately a nasty knock on the engine forced him to sell it. I thought this could be the perfect car for my dad.

This car looks amazing for having 172k miles. It is pretty rare to find a 1 owner car these days.

So, first things first. I had the car for all of 30 seconds before I broke it. I dragged the exhaust pulling into my driveway and separated the car back from the y pipe. So today I fixed that so the exhaust wasn't dragging on the ground anymore. Next, I need to make room for all the parts Dave packed into the car. It's completely full of parts. Thanks Dave! And finally, I need to figure out what's up with the engine. It has a nasty knock. It has great oil pressure, runs smooth, no smoke, but knocks really bad. I think it's a lifter, but I don't know. I think I'm going to pull the valve covers and see what I find. As well as this car has been taken care of, I'm hoping the engine is healty. I'd love to just replace some lifters and let my dad enjoy this car for a while.

Anyway, let me know what you guys would do to diagnose this knock.


https://youtu.be/AJUsOvgpnmg

https://youtu.be/otobYePJLyo

Posted by: BumpaD_Z28 Jul 22 2016, 06:48 AM

WOW I don't think I'd keep running it, ...

but get the valve covers pulled and I'm guessing broken parts will be present

Posted by: trackbird Jul 22 2016, 03:40 PM

Drain the oil into a clean pan and look for metal. I found a spun rod bearing in the TBSS LS2 we rebuilt a year or so ago by finding bearing material in the oil when I drained it. It looked like metal flake paint. That was a sure sign the engine needed to come out. I haven't had a chance to listen to the video yet. If you find needle bearings on the oil pan drain plug magnet, start looking at the rocker arms. If you find metal flakes in the oil, I'd suggest that it's time for it to come out onto a stand and be rebuilt.

If you go to Home Depot, you can buy a large "wall paper pan". It's a big tray made of a flexible black plastic that works great for catching antifreeze, oil, ATF, gear lube, etc. They aren't too expensive and a clean one is great for looking for bearing material with a bright light as you slosh the oil in it. And brake clean hasn't softened one up yet (backing my 3rd gen down off the ramps with the pan still under it....that tends to soften them up a bit...lol).

Posted by: nape Jul 22 2016, 04:52 PM

One hillbilly way to find out if it's in the bottom end is to drain the oil and refill with straight 50 or 60w. If it quiets down, it's almost certainly a rod/main bearing. If it doesn't, could be a lifter.

Either way, I wouldn't run it too long. Something is definitely wrong and more run time increases the chance of carnage.

Posted by: Steve91T Jul 22 2016, 04:55 PM

QUOTE (nape @ Jul 22 2016, 12:52 PM)

Posted by: Steve91T Jul 22 2016, 05:17 PM

I just got off the phone with the original owner. He told me it started after getting off the highway. Just cruising in 6th. When he came to a stop, he heard the knocking. That was back in January. He has changed the oil 4 times since then, trying differently weight oils. No metal was every found in the oil. 2 months ago, he changed the rockers and pushrods.

So, it's not the bottom end. The car has driven nearly every day for 6 months with this knock and it's not making metal. If it was in the bottom end, there's no way it'd still be running. It's probably a failed lifter.

Posted by: Ojustracing Jul 22 2016, 05:21 PM

That really sounds like valve train. Use a long screw driver to narrow down the side. But if it is. half the motor has to come out to change the cam and lifters. Maybe it even spit a rocker arm bearings out and has a bunch of play in rocker arm pre-load. You can remove the coil pack assembly and then valve cover. I'd look around first. You could run it with the valve cover off also.

I saw you posted while typing. If rockers/pushrods have been changed I too would suspect Lifters. But I would want to know which one. By the sounds of it. You should be able to run the engine and find which rocker arm has the extra play.

Posted by: CrashTestDummy Jul 22 2016, 07:20 PM

As John said, pull the covers and look for a dead rocker or broken spring before running it anymore. It really sounded to be louder on the passenger side when I listened to the video.

Posted by: Steve91T Jul 23 2016, 01:58 AM

Gave her a bath tonight! 172k miles people.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/0F2C85A0-15EF-47B0-9C51-18FE8A17B24C.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/410CF641-86F3-4327-9262-026AAF9E9AA4.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/418C07B2-3BE7-4C04-B5C1-F35DA7469765.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/51B51548-79C4-4580-B0AB-D831A799F6DE.jpg.html

My 2 yr old saying "cheese!"
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/B3C8EB22-5A2E-464C-BE58-47E44C106949.jpg.html


http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/449C1F14-BF2A-4A58-9326-F9953D110021.jpg.html

3 good size dents. These are the only dings on the car. I'm going to email a good car detailed in my area. He recently posted link to a guy who removed hail damage out of a hood without damaging the paint. But let's look at that shine!


http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/AFE22B0B-8027-4977-A037-7A91C4165C29.jpg.html

Posted by: CrashTestDummy Jul 23 2016, 02:38 AM

Tip him! Painless dent removers are awesome!,

Posted by: trackbird Jul 23 2016, 02:41 AM

QUOTE (CrashTestDummy @ Jul 22 2016, 10:38 PM)

Posted by: Steve91T Jul 23 2016, 03:41 AM

QUOTE (CrashTestDummy @ Jul 22 2016, 10:38 PM)

Posted by: Steve91T Jul 23 2016, 03:42 AM

QUOTE (trackbird @ Jul 22 2016, 10:41 PM)

QUOTE (CrashTestDummy @ Jul 22 2016, 10:38 PM)

Tip him! Painless dent removers are awesome!,

I need to find a good one for my car. It has a small assortment of door dings in the rear quarter panels and one in the hood???

Posted by: nape Jul 23 2016, 05:09 AM

I'm jealous. That's a lot cleaner than the 165k mile '98 I picked up as a parts car for not much less money.

I had to snap it up though with all people parting them out then asking $2500 for the T56 swap or $3500-5000 for the engine/T56.

Posted by: Steve91T Jul 24 2016, 07:56 PM

QUOTE (CrashTestDummy @ Jul 22 2016, 03:20 PM)

Posted by: Steve91T Jul 24 2016, 08:01 PM

QUOTE (nape @ Jul 23 2016, 01:09 AM)

Posted by: CrashTestDummy Jul 25 2016, 02:41 AM

Heh, 2yo saying "cheese", thinking "yeah, this will be my car. You better fix it, Daddy!".

Posted by: Steve91T Jul 25 2016, 10:56 PM

QUOTE (CrashTestDummy @ Jul 24 2016, 10:41 PM)

Heh, 2yo saying "cheese", thinking "yeah, this will be my car. You better fix it, Daddy!".

Posted by: Steve91T Jul 25 2016, 10:59 PM

I've been busy with recurrent training and had to rest my little brain so I decided to finally unpack the car. I didn't vacuum or anything, just pulled the many many boxes of parts out of it.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/223B3ECB-C129-44CF-A11D-BF8EDF78E4BE.jpg.html

Drivers seat.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/F5518103-AF91-431B-A03A-F0AA9E5459E7.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/DBC8E623-941B-463D-886A-4F5DD6D54219.jpg.html

I have no idea where I'm going to put all of this. I haven't gone through them yet.


http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/29334820-F3CA-46B5-AFE5-09C4BD041D31.jpg.html

Posted by: robz71lm7 Jul 26 2016, 11:04 PM

Sounds deadup just like my LT1 with a bad lifter. I vote valvetrain. If that fixes the noise then get an oil analysis to determine you don't have a bearing issue as well.

Use a mechanics stethoscope and you should be able to pinpoint the cylinder.

Posted by: Rampant Jul 27 2016, 12:50 AM

Lift the valve covers. If it was over revved, like a miss where you went down instead of up. I did it stock and bent 3 push rods. Almost as loud as yours.

A really easy cheap fix if that is all that bent. Also our cars will spit roller bearings out of the rockers, with a similar sound.

Posted by: Steve91T Jul 28 2016, 06:49 PM

I haven't even looked through all the boxes yet. Everything from new side mirrors, parking brake cables, lever, air vents, air filter, spark plugs, exhaust manifold gaskets....it just keeps going.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/8A0480A0-AF75-4289-9E58-0EF53B30CA50.jpg.html


http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/3D4A4D66-50A3-4BBE-B06A-E20263C07593.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/E169DED9-2D3E-4672-BC32-15B8D57DF00E.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/47F2699A-0719-4F5E-9A6C-6BEFB5143664.jpg.html


Now that I moved all the parts to the walk out crawl space, I'm going to pull the valve cover and see what I see.

Posted by: trackbird Jul 28 2016, 06:55 PM

I'm thinking I really should have bought that car.

Posted by: Steve91T Jul 28 2016, 07:13 PM

QUOTE (trackbird @ Jul 28 2016, 02:55 PM)

I'm thinking I really should have bought that car.

Posted by: Steve91T Jul 28 2016, 08:10 PM

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/F15BD922-E836-4B5F-B149-935508F42CAE.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/ACF7AAF3-1688-4D9B-9F10-18C05C749ED8.jpg.html

Posted by: Steve91T Jul 28 2016, 08:16 PM

Well there's you're problem....


https://youtu.be/Ap1lFS98O1w


http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/FA5C16C8-FB10-4389-9D7B-378E10890B68.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/2CEFA43C-896E-4BD5-9143-09AACB6F7507.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/A1BFD1D2-F0C1-4795-B057-F8C4F8D7B724.jpg.html

Pushrods is not bent and the bolt holding the rocker was tight, so that points to the lifter. Head is coming off.

Posted by: JimMueller Jul 28 2016, 08:38 PM

Years ago I had an aggressive LS1 cam (227/235 110+2 .650/.650 valve lift on Comp LSK lobes) using Caddy lifters, OEM lifter trays and Manton 3/8" pushrods. Eventually I had a noise and found that the tray had cracked and the lifter had rotated and become seized in the bore. It's been so long I don't know how similar my noise was to yours.

Posted by: Ojustracing Jul 28 2016, 08:40 PM

Steve? Does it have that length push-rods on all Cylinders?? Kinda remember having to use a 7.425. Stock cam?

Jim my 13 Tahoe just had a DOD lifter rotate just cruising down the road!!!

Posted by: JimMueller Jul 28 2016, 08:52 PM

I remember a stock valve train LS1 using 7.400" pushrods, but the LS6 variants would need to be ~.030" longer to account for the slightly smaller base circle.

Stock Camshaft Numbers -

Base Circle Dia.:
'97-'04 LS1 = 19.7mm / 0.776"
'01 LS6 = 19.3mm / 0.760"
'02 -'04 LS6 = 19.0mm / 0.748

Posted by: Steve91T Jul 29 2016, 12:11 AM

Intake manifold is off.


http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/4A6F1253-438C-4267-8C0A-4181498E1E20.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/56D57F7C-AC08-4580-8EA4-53101E8BB08E.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/83A8BB4C-8A23-496E-B290-6A3DBF1BF421.jpg.html

Posted by: JimMueller Jul 29 2016, 01:46 AM

Not sure what you might be willing to upgrade while you're taking things apart. That looks like the original LS1 valley cover, you might want to look into upgrading it to the LS6 cover (and new style of coolant crossover lines) if you can find the parts. You'll need to grind inside the valley to make it fit, though. Also put a dam of RTV around the top of the knock sensor holes to prevent water intrusion... lookup TSB #02-06-04-023. The LS6 intake manifold is a nice value upgrade over the LS1 unit if you don't already have one (and can find one). The intake ports are surprisingly clean.

Oh, and it's been 5 hours, that PS head should already be off

Posted by: Steve91T Jul 29 2016, 02:46 AM

QUOTE (JimMueller @ Jul 28 2016, 09:46 PM)

Not sure what you might be willing to upgrade while you're taking things apart. That looks like the original LS1 valley cover, you might want to look into upgrading it to the LS6 cover (and new style of coolant crossover lines) if you can find the parts. You'll need to grind inside the valley to make it fit, though. Also put a dam of RTV around the top of the knock sensor holes to prevent water intrusion... lookup TSB #02-06-04-023. The LS6 intake manifold is a nice value upgrade over the LS1 unit if you don't already have one (and can find one). The intake ports are surprisingly clean.

Oh, and it's been 5 hours, that PS head should already be off

Posted by: JimMueller Jul 29 2016, 04:33 AM

You could probably get away with just replacing the PS lifters, but I'd try to stick with the same model lifters unless you want to risk having to use different length pushrods on the PS to get the correct preload. I doubt you'll find a half set of lifters, though, so you'll probably have to eat the cost of a whole set of new lifters now even though you only choose to replace half.

You're right, though, see what you must replace before looking at optional parts.

Posted by: Steve91T Jul 29 2016, 04:01 PM

If I replace the right side with OEM lifters, they should be the same as the original lifters, correct? The new replacement lifters are LS7 lifters, which are just a better design.

Like I said, I just want to fix what's broke then see what I have. I'm going to buy all 16, but just replace all the right side lifters while the head is off.


Getting my parts list together. I'll update this as I go.

Lifters

http://www.texas-speed.com/p-309-gmdelphi-replacement-ls7-style-lifters.aspx


Head gaskets

https://m.summitracing.com/cart/add/NAL-12498544


GM head bolts (1 side)

https://m.summitracing.com/search?keyword=12498545

Trays

https://m.summitracing.com/parts/nal-12595365

Posted by: JimMueller Jul 29 2016, 04:28 PM

LS7 lifters are the OEM replacement for the LS1 lifters. Assuming you currently have LS1 lifters, then they should be a direct swap without having to change pushrods. The lifter trays (12595365) are inexpensive and are considered something to always replace when swapping lifters, also.

Same lifters currently on sale here:
http://www.texas-speed.com/p-309-gmdelphi-replacement-ls7-style-lifters.aspx?

Posted by: Steve91T Jul 29 2016, 04:31 PM

QUOTE (JimMueller @ Jul 29 2016, 12:28 PM)

Posted by: trackbird Jul 29 2016, 04:44 PM

QUOTE (JimMueller @ Jul 29 2016, 12:28 PM)

Posted by: Steve91T Jul 29 2016, 04:47 PM

QUOTE (trackbird @ Jul 29 2016, 12:44 PM)

QUOTE (JimMueller @ Jul 29 2016, 12:28 PM)

The lifter trays (12595365) are inexpensive and are considered something to always replace when swapping lifters, also.

I was just coming in to add that same thing. You have to replace them with the head off. This shouldn't be an issue since you're replacing the lifter anyway.

Posted by: Ojustracing Jul 29 2016, 05:01 PM

I know your trying to keep it simple. You might want to get the head off first. I would suspect possible cam damage from that lifter flopping around..

Posted by: Steve91T Jul 29 2016, 05:03 PM

QUOTE (Ojustracing @ Jul 29 2016, 01:01 PM)

Posted by: Steve91T Jul 29 2016, 05:05 PM

I'll wait to make the order until I get the head off. Headed to the garage now.

Posted by: Ojustracing Jul 29 2016, 05:09 PM

Steve it should. Just like the picture you posted. But the valve springs keep the lifter in contact cam. If things are loose. It may have already galled the cam or a worn lobe.. Hopefully its just a Lifter!!!!!!!!!!!

Steve yes wait to hit the order button!!!!!

Posted by: Steve91T Jul 29 2016, 05:11 PM

QUOTE (Ojustracing @ Jul 29 2016, 01:09 PM)

Posted by: Ojustracing Jul 29 2016, 05:19 PM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Jul 29 2016, 11:11 AM)

QUOTE (Ojustracing @ Jul 29 2016, 01:09 PM)

Steve it should. Just like the picture you posted. But the valve springs keep the lifter in contact cam. If things are loose. It may have already galled the cam or a worn lobe.. Hopefully its just a Lifter!!!!!!!!!!!

Steve yes wait to hit the order button!!!!!

Will I be able to see enough of the lobe to see if it's damaged or not?

Posted by: Steve91T Jul 29 2016, 06:38 PM

QUOTE (Ojustracing @ Jul 29 2016, 01:19 PM)

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Jul 29 2016, 11:11 AM)

QUOTE (Ojustracing @ Jul 29 2016, 01:09 PM)

Steve it should. Just like the picture you posted. But the valve springs keep the lifter in contact cam. If things are loose. It may have already galled the cam or a worn lobe.. Hopefully its just a Lifter!!!!!!!!!!!

Steve yes wait to hit the order button!!!!!

Will I be able to see enough of the lobe to see if it's damaged or not?

Yes you should be able.. the lobe should look the same as others. Look at the lifter roller very good!!!!!

Check this link for some photos at the beginning..
http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/1075148-cam-lobe-failure-analyses.html

Posted by: JimMueller Jul 29 2016, 07:20 PM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Jul 29 2016, 12:47 PM)

QUOTE (trackbird @ Jul 29 2016, 12:44 PM)

QUOTE (JimMueller @ Jul 29 2016, 12:28 PM)

The lifter trays (12595365) are inexpensive and are considered something to always replace when swapping lifters, also.

I was just coming in to add that same thing. You have to replace them with the head off. This shouldn't be an issue since you're replacing the lifter anyway.

I added 4 of them from summit. So lifters, trays, head bolts and head gaskets. Anything else I'm missing?

Posted by: CrashTestDummy Jul 29 2016, 08:05 PM

Isn't it a popular mod to get ARP head bolts so you don't have to mess with those stupid TTY headbolts? Especially since it looks like a repeat of this job is in this car's future?

Posted by: Steve91T Jul 29 2016, 08:08 PM

QUOTE (CrashTestDummy @ Jul 29 2016, 04:05 PM)

Posted by: Steve91T Jul 30 2016, 03:20 AM

Look what I did today!!! Looks like the cam is coming out. #6 lifter spins freely, moves up and down from the cam to the "spot". That'd where it gets stuck. It will absolutely not come out. It's probably mushroomed. #7 looks bad also. Really pitted. So the cam has to come out. The good news is the lifter will probably drop down once the cam is out and then I can get it out that way. Hopefully the bore isn't messed up.


http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/AC03807D-7F54-4F60-AD82-74FDFC76D878.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/94F40AF1-B409-4457-A364-FE532C978D83.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/6DF9B2AF-99B7-4E66-BBE9-8B3B51DA69CB.jpg.html

One of the good lifters
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/67AC71D9-9E6F-418F-9F35-379EEB2F0B2F.jpg.html

#7
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/BF22CC86-65C5-42CC-A2B0-511B3EDD49CB.jpg.html

Posted by: JimMueller Jul 30 2016, 12:56 PM

Yuk, graphite head gaskets The replacement gaskets will be MLS. You can use something like a razor blade, sharp wood chisel, or sharp plastic scraper to get that residue off. I've read that Permatex Gasket Remover also works, if you can find it. Just be careful you don't cut into the aluminum and also get the surfaces clean enough.

If you can't remove the #6 lifter from the top of the block, and you pull the cam... if the lifter falls it should end up in the oil pan

http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/1368787-how-clean-does-head-gasket-surface-need.html

http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/1108834-cleaning-carbon-deposits-off-pistons.html

Seems like a lot of deposits on the valves, might want to look into whether that is normal for the mileage or indicates additional maintenance is suggested (worn guides, bad seals, etc.)

Posted by: Steve91T Jul 30 2016, 03:47 PM

I talked to my dad last night and I told him about the lifter. He wasn't sure if he wanted the car, but he was definitely interested. The plan was to get the car on the road and then go from there. If he decided to pass, I'd sell the car for a profit. So that's why I was initially going to fix the engine for as little possible.

Now that the lifter is stuck, I need to figure out what direction I'm going to go. Hence the call to my dad.

So he's really interested and sounds excited about it. He's going to call me back later today and we'll talk more and I'd like to have some numbers for him.

This car would be a weekend cruiser/once in a while HPDE car. He's a good driver, but a little timid on the track. he enjoys driving at 7/10ths, nothing more. Since this car already has all the suspension goodies already, we just need to find a good balance with power. My gut feeling is to go with LT headers, an LS6 intake manifold and a cam similar to an LS6 cam. He likes a lumpy idle, but doesn't want any drivability issues. So something slightly more aggressive to the LS6 cam will probably be perfect. Add a tune and I think he'd be just north of 380 and it'll make power to 6500.

It's already got an LS7 clutch and light weight flywheel and the transmission still shifts fine. It's also got pro 5.0 shifter that feels great.

I'm thinking about dopping the engine. It would make replacing the cam easier and then it'd allow me to add oil pan baffles to prevent starvation on the track.

I'm guessing about $2k for all of that.

I'd love to hear what you guys think.

Posted by: JimMueller Jul 30 2016, 06:21 PM

If the lifter bore is damaged, I'd probably take it to a reputable local machine shop to see if they can hone it and/or repair it. Whether or not they can do that safely with the remainder of the rotating assembly installed I do not know. If they can't, then someone will need to disassemble the short block prior to the repair. If it's already at the machine shop it'd be easy for them to perform other cleanup tasks as well, as your funds allow. If they cannot repair the bore, then you'd at least be looking at another engine case or short block. You'd have to move your rotating assembly to the new case if it was bare. Weigh the cost of repairing vs. replacing the block.

Once the block is in order, you can re-use the current heads. The machine shop would be able to disassemble/clean/reassemble with old or new parts and also prepare the head gasket surface if desired.
Some sample numbers I threw together:

lifters 12499225 ($100,per engine)
lifter trays 12595365 (4@$6, need two per head)
head gaskets 12498544 (2@$30, per head)
head bolts 12498545 (2@$24, not re-usable; per head)
water pump gaskets 12630223 (2@$4, per head)
front cover seal 12585673 ($16,if you need to pull the front cover)
front cover gasket 12633904 ($16, if you need to pull the front cover)
crankshaft bolt 12557840 ($4, not re-usable; if you need to pull the front cover)
exhaust gasket 12617944 (2@$11, probably re-usable)

The above new is $300, plus any tax & shipping.

LS6 intake manifold: (PN 88894339, casting # 12573572) No longer sold, need to find used. Expect to pay $300-$400. You'll need to modify the ribbing on the bottom of the intake to be compatible with the LS1 coolant crossover lines, or buy the LS6 coolant crossover lines & plugs.
Cam: If new, expect to pay at least $400. I'd suggest contacting Patrick Guerra, Kip @ CamMotion, or Brian Tooley for your application
LT Headers: If new, expect to pay $300-$1200 just for the primaries, plus whatever you use to mate the primaries to your tail pipes.
Pushrods: You should budget to buy new pushrods for the different cam base circle, unless you want to trust the seller to sell you a cam which definitely works with your existing pushrods. If people won't be sustaining high RPM for a long time (like drifting), 5/16" thickness would probably get you by. In general, you want the thickest diameter, thickest sidewall which has adequate clearance in the pushrod guide. Anywhere from $100-$300 for a set.
Valvesprings: You may need to budget for these depending upon the cam spec'ed.

Going with the lower end costs, that's $1500 above, plus valve springs, the y-pipe/x-pipe/exhaust, plus the cost of repairing/replacing the block, etc. You'll save some if you're able to buy used, and you may be able to recoup some of your costs by selling the old good parts.

After that, it just depends on what else you want to inspect and your budget. Expect to pay $400-$500 for a reputable in-person tune. I don't remember if a new oil pan gasket is recommended when you drop the pan. You might want to consider a better timing chain ($150)... other misc gaskets, lots of knick knack things, only your budget is the restriction.

Posted by: CrashTestDummy Jul 30 2016, 09:51 PM

That's about what a guy on the New Caprice forum was quoted to do a DOD-delete kit install, for the parts alone. The labor was an extra $1300-$1400, depending on the shop he talked to. He's essentially doing what you are, pulling heads, replacing the cam, lifters, and cam-compatible valvetrain. Just a datapoint here.

Posted by: Steve91T Jul 30 2016, 10:03 PM

QUOTE (JimMueller @ Jul 30 2016, 02:21 PM)

Posted by: trackbird Jul 30 2016, 10:41 PM

I have a set of .010 rod bearings if you wind up needing them (not saying you're turning the crank, but if you do....). They are sealed in the package from the trailblazer SS engine we rebuilt.

Posted by: Ojustracing Jul 30 2016, 10:54 PM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Jul 30 2016, 04:03 PM)

QUOTE (JimMueller @ Jul 30 2016, 02:21 PM)

If the lifter bore is damaged, I'd probably take it to a reputable local machine shop to see if they can hone it and/or repair it. Whether or not they can do that safely with the remainder of the rotating assembly installed I do not know. If they can't, then someone will need to disassemble the short block prior to the repair. If it's already at the machine shop it'd be easy for them to perform other cleanup tasks as well, as your funds allow. If they cannot repair the bore, then you'd at least be looking at another engine case or short block. You'd have to move your rotating assembly to the new case if it was bare. Weigh the cost of repairing vs. replacing the block.

Once the block is in order, you can re-use the current heads. The machine shop would be able to disassemble/clean/reassemble with old or new parts and also prepare the head gasket surface if desired.
Some sample numbers I threw together:

lifters 12499225 ($100,per engine)
lifter trays 12595365 (4@$6, need two per head)
head gaskets 12498544 (2@$30, per head)
head bolts 12498545 (2@$24, not re-usable; per head)
water pump gaskets 12630223 (2@$4, per head)
front cover seal 12585673 ($16,if you need to pull the front cover)
front cover gasket 12633904 ($16, if you need to pull the front cover)
crankshaft bolt 12557840 ($4, not re-usable; if you need to pull the front cover)
exhaust gasket 12617944 (2@$11, probably re-usable)

The above new is $300, plus any tax & shipping.

LS6 intake manifold: (PN 88894339, casting # 12573572) No longer sold, need to find used. Expect to pay $300-$400. You'll need to modify the ribbing on the bottom of the intake to be compatible with the LS1 coolant crossover lines, or buy the LS6 coolant crossover lines & plugs.
Cam: If new, expect to pay at least $400. I'd suggest contacting Patrick Guerra, Kip @ CamMotion, or Brian Tooley for your application
LT Headers: If new, expect to pay $300-$1200 just for the primaries, plus whatever you use to mate the primaries to your tail pipes.
Pushrods: You should budget to buy new pushrods for the different cam base circle, unless you want to trust the seller to sell you a cam which definitely works with your existing pushrods. If people won't be sustaining high RPM for a long time (like drifting), 5/16" thickness would probably get you by. In general, you want the thickest diameter, thickest sidewall which has adequate clearance in the pushrod guide. Anywhere from $100-$300 for a set.
Valvesprings: You may need to budget for these depending upon the cam spec'ed.

Going with the lower end costs, that's $1500 above, plus valve springs, the y-pipe/x-pipe/exhaust, plus the cost of repairing/replacing the block, etc. You'll save some if you're able to buy used, and you may be able to recoup some of your costs by selling the old good parts.

After that, it just depends on what else you want to inspect and your budget. Expect to pay $400-$500 for a reputable in-person tune. I don't remember if a new oil pan gasket is recommended when you drop the pan. You might want to consider a better timing chain ($150)... other misc gaskets, lots of knick knack things, only your budget is the restriction.

Thanks Jim! Yeah that's about what I came up with. Thanks for taking the time to post that. It really helps to have it all in one place. The one thing I want to say is I can't imagine the lifter bore is damaged. The lifter still moves freely, it just mushroomed so it won't come out through the top. What do you think caused the pitting on lucky number 7?

I still feel this engine is relatively healthy and has a lot of life left in it. It'd be so easy to drop this engine off at a local engine shop with a wad of cash strapped to it and pick it up a few weeks later. But I'd rather just fix what's broke and drive it.

Posted by: JimMueller Jul 30 2016, 11:25 PM

I see you cross-posted in LS1Tech. I've read that the pitting is usually related to the heat treatment of the metal. Here are a few links of use:

http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/1830277-damaged-lifter-bad-build.html
http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iv-internal-engine/1832963-possible-lifter-failure-video-inside.html
http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/1821568-cam-pitting-one-usable.html

This might be that TSB:

http://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/topic/70120-tsb-for-noisy-lifters/#entry516835

How many miles on the current filter & oil? I would absolutely drain the oil and carefully inspect the oil for glitter or flakes. Then cut the oil filter open, and carefully remove the filter media. Inspect both the media and the remaining oil in the filter for the same. If you find any glitter or flakes, I'd find the source before re-assembly. If you don't see any, your bottom end is probably good but I've always went with a new oil pump on a rebuild.

Posted by: JimMueller Jul 31 2016, 01:20 PM

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c5-parts-for-sale-wanted/3845324-ls-1-block-z06-cam-oil-pump-etc-from-the-3-guys-garage-project-c5.html

Posted by: Steve91T Jul 31 2016, 05:26 PM

QUOTE (JimMueller @ Jul 31 2016, 09:20 AM)

Posted by: Steve91T Jul 31 2016, 06:24 PM

That might be a good deal. I'm going to get more information from him. Thanks did finding that.

Posted by: Steve91T Aug 1 2016, 09:39 AM

So now I'm considering getting a new set of freshly rebuilt heads. Loyyd Elliot sells reworked heads complete ready to bolt on for $800. It would be kind of a same to bolt old heads to a new bottom end.

Are there any other heads that you guys would recommend?

Posted by: trackbird Aug 1 2016, 11:02 AM

With that mileage, I'd at least hone and ring it. Make sure the bottom end seals up to match the top end. But this is where project creep begins....

Posted by: Steve91T Aug 1 2016, 01:07 PM

QUOTE (trackbird @ Aug 1 2016, 07:02 AM)

Posted by: JimMueller Aug 1 2016, 02:46 PM

What's your budget for the assembled heads? From GM, the 241, 243, 799 or 743 (5.3l head) castings seem to be the best of the lot, but they may require center bolt valve covers if you don't already have them. You might find a deal on a good set of these used castings to send to a porter which would be less expensive than using new heads. Some heads have a special notch in them that others do not have, so ensure you pay attention to that when ordering the matching gaskets.

From what I can find, the following companies are popular on LS1Tech for vendors who port stock castings. I'd recommend posting over there to discuss.
Texas Speed & Performance
Advanced Induction
Total Engine Airflow
Lloyd Elliot, although more popular in the 1st Gen LT1 community

Posted by: JimMueller Aug 1 2016, 04:15 PM

http://youngstown.craigslist.org/pts/5707157619.html

http://siouxfalls.craigslist.org/pts/5708786799.html

http://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/pts/5705352104.html

http://allentown.craigslist.org/pts/5691759948.html

http://houston.craigslist.org/pts/5701198649.html

http://twinfalls.craigslist.org/pts/5693955394.html

Posted by: Steve91T Aug 1 2016, 10:19 PM

Thanks Jim. I don't want to take a chance on another used block. The 2 guys block interests me because I'd spend nearly that much on just cam, lifters, oil pump, timing chain and front cover gaskets. But he hasn't responded yet.

I think I'm back to leaving the bottom end alone, new cam lifters and springs and put it back together. New oil pump also, but that's it. Ok oil pan baffles, but seriously, that's it!

Posted by: JimMueller Aug 2 2016, 12:15 AM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Aug 1 2016, 06:19 PM)

Posted by: trackbird Aug 2 2016, 10:52 AM

QUOTE (JimMueller @ Aug 1 2016, 08:15 PM)

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Aug 1 2016, 06:19 PM)

.... but seriously, that's it!

Um hmm, that's what we all say

Posted by: CrashTestDummy Aug 2 2016, 12:43 PM

Car - noun - 1. an automobile. 2. a big hole in the garage you pour money into.

Posted by: Steve91T Aug 4 2016, 06:38 PM

My dad just stopped by and saw the car. He couldn't believe how nice it is and definitely wants to buy it from me. So, time to order some parts!!

One thing we talked about is the long tubes. When he had them on the 97, they always leaked, rattled against the cross member and had serious ground clearance issues. He just doesn't want to deal with that again. So I'm going to do some research and figure out what cam and springs we should go with. I'm still thinking something similar to an LS6 cam, LS6 intake manifold and possibly 01-02 exhaust manifolds. I hear they flow better than the 2000 manifolds, but I'm not sure.

I'm really excited. I was a little worried what my dad was going to think. But he was more than excited. The other thing that's a must is new wheels. So I'll have to get some help on wheel choices. I think we should get 18's and possibly do a 315 square size. I'd like to get wider tires than the usual 275's since we are getting new wheels anyway. This is going to be mostly a weekend toy and occosionaly he'll do some HPDE's. I know he doesn't want to deal with track tires, so NT-05's will probably be a good tire for both street and track. I know it was great on my M3.

Posted by: trackbird Aug 4 2016, 06:41 PM

I think it was Texas speed who had a 212/218 cam on a 114 lobe separation that seemed like it should work well without headers. I was eyeballing that one because I really don't want to deal with headers (if I were to put a cam in the new toy...though I think I'd be better off with a Procharger). They do a .550 and a .600 lift version. I didn't want to have to keep changing valve springs every year or so, so the low lift seemed interesting to me.

Posted by: 79T/A Aug 4 2016, 08:10 PM

Hooker is making a set of mid-length headers now that look really nice and offer huge ground clearance compared to long tubes.

Posted by: Steve91T Aug 4 2016, 09:17 PM

QUOTE (79T/A @ Aug 4 2016, 04:10 PM)

Posted by: Steve91T Aug 4 2016, 09:22 PM

These are the less restrictive manifolds, not the 01-02, right?


http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/0FE78045-020B-42F8-A6FC-85A5D3D72F75.jpg.html

I want to rock the stock manifolds and see what kind of results we can get. My dad wants drivability and use ability over max power. We can always add headers later if we need it.


Thanks Kevin, I'll give them a call next week. He wants zero drivability issues and something easy on springs. Sounds like they'll have a cam that'll be good for us.

Posted by: CrashTestDummy Aug 5 2016, 03:23 AM

LS motors, + long tubes = serious HP. DON't do a build without them.

Posted by: Steve91T Aug 5 2016, 03:55 AM

QUOTE (CrashTestDummy @ Aug 4 2016, 11:23 PM)

Posted by: trackbird Aug 5 2016, 10:53 AM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Aug 4 2016, 05:22 PM)

Posted by: JimMueller Aug 5 2016, 01:26 PM

LS1/LS6/LS7's/shorties/midlengths/longtubes in that order should flow the best. They'll all bolt up to the heads, but from what I've read only the LS1 F-body manifolds will be compatible with the F-body engine bay and suspension without hacking. The LS6 exhaust manifolds were only available for the Corvette, and the LS7 manifolds exit in the center instead of the rear like stock. From a performance perspective I'd not bother with shorties or midlengths, though.

Whomever you contact regarding a replacement cam, inquire about valve springs and whether your current length pushrods are the correct length. They may want to know what lifter you're using also. Ideally, you would use a pushrod length checker after everything is assembled to determine a pushrod length in the preload window, and order that length instead of assuming up front.

If you stick with stock exhaust manifolds now, realize you'll need to have the car tuned once for the stock manifolds and again after adding headers. A cam designed for stock manifolds will not be optimal for headers, and vice versa. So you will be making a compromise unless you decide to swap to another cam at the same time you install the headers. Ground clearance with longtube's should be fine at stock ride height but you would need to keep an eye on it if you lower the vehicle, or if your front suspension is soft enough to allow the front to 'crash' down after going over a speed bump which would hit the collectors on a speed bump. The y-pipes for longtubes are hit'n'miss, my ARH fit really well though.

Posted by: Steve91T Aug 5 2016, 03:22 PM

QUOTE (JimMueller @ Aug 5 2016, 09:26 AM)

Posted by: JimMueller Aug 5 2016, 10:20 PM

PDF parts manual shows these manifold part numbers... it's a little hard to read the part numbers when I zoom but I think this is correct. No idea on the functional differences or whether they mate to all versions of the OEM exhaust components.

exhaust manifolds
98-99 12560193, 12560194
00 12559506,12559507
01-02 12567706,12559507

Posted by: trackbird Aug 5 2016, 10:46 PM

I believe the aftermarket Y pipes follow the same year breakdowns. One year seems to say it fits two other years, but requires welding 98-99 might fit an 00, but you'll have to weld...or that's what I remember from memory).

Posted by: Steve91T Aug 8 2016, 01:23 AM

Is the LS6 worth it on a more or less stock engine?

Posted by: JimMueller Aug 8 2016, 01:32 AM

When I had a stock LS1 short block with LS1 intake, small cam and longtube headers, I gained 25-30rwhp, with it being tuned before and after. I may have printed dyno sheets in storage...not sure, that was over 10 years ago.

Posted by: BumpaD_Z28 Aug 8 2016, 07:18 AM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Aug 7 2016, 07:23 PM)

Posted by: Steve91T Aug 9 2016, 03:26 PM

Just talked to Texas speed. They said to go with a 224r 112 LSA. You would be able to tell there's a cam in it, but it will be completely driveable.

Posted by: trackbird Aug 10 2016, 01:23 AM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Aug 9 2016, 11:26 AM)

Posted by: Steve91T Aug 10 2016, 01:45 AM

QUOTE (trackbird @ Aug 9 2016, 09:23 PM)

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Aug 9 2016, 11:26 AM)

Just talked to Texas speed. They said to go with a 224r 112 LSA. You would be able to tell there's a cam in it, but it will be completely driveable.

Even without headers?

Posted by: trackbird Aug 10 2016, 10:48 AM

Cool. I know you can run any cam without headers, but they don't always like it due to dilution of the incoming air charge (because of poor cylinder scavenging). I expected them to push you towards the 114 LSA cam without headers. Interesting.

I think you'd have to be at more then 350 RWHP. The SOM SS I had dynoed at 329 RWHP and it only had a lid and an exhaust on it. That cam has to be worth more than 21 hp. I'm curious to see what kind of results you get since I'm in the "don't want to deal with headers" crowd too. I might change my mind at some point....maybe. I just want to keep this one headache free, a car you can hop in and drive to the west coast without any issues.

Posted by: dojob Aug 10 2016, 11:43 AM

QUOTE (trackbird @ Aug 10 2016, 06:48 AM)

Posted by: trackbird Aug 10 2016, 12:52 PM

QUOTE (dojob @ Aug 10 2016, 07:43 AM)

QUOTE (trackbird @ Aug 10 2016, 06:48 AM)

Cool. I know you can run any cam without headers, but they don't always like it due to dilution of the incoming air charge (because of poor cylinder scavenging). I expected them to push you towards the 114 LSA cam without headers. Interesting.

I think you'd have to be at more then 350 RWHP. The SOM SS I had dynoed at 329 RWHP and it only had a lid and an exhaust on it. That cam has to be worth more than 21 hp. I'm curious to see what kind of results you get since I'm in the "don't want to deal with headers" crowd too. I might change my mind at some point....maybe. I just want to keep this one headache free, a car you can hop in and drive to the west coast without any issues.

why would headers cause driving/reliability issues?

Posted by: landstuhltaylor Aug 10 2016, 01:30 PM

If you burn plug wires on an LS when the coils are right there, you did something wrong.

Posted by: JimMueller Aug 10 2016, 02:07 PM

I began with Grotyohann longtube headers around 2000, and they eventually cracked at the collector, which prompted me to switched to ARH headers maybe around 2009? I've never burned a stock length spark plug boot using the factory coil mounting locations. I do get flat spotting on the bottom of the collectors from speed bumps if I set my front ride height too low. I've always used Stage 8 locking nuts on the exhaust flanges, never lost one during use (but lost plenty of locking clips while R&R'ing the little bastards). There aren't any hills in Floriduh, I think the steepest grade I've encountered was on I-75 on the TN/GA border, and that might only have been 4-5%? I did travel through mountains at night going between TN and the Carolina's years ago, but I don't remember what interstate that might have been or the grade.

Posted by: CrashTestDummy Aug 10 2016, 02:16 PM

QUOTE (landstuhltaylor @ Aug 10 2016, 08:30 AM)

Posted by: Steve91T Aug 10 2016, 02:48 PM

Yeah he wants to avoid headers if we can for all the reasons mentioned. He wants to be able to take the car to the store or run errands and not have to worry if there's a speed bump or not.

I really can't find anyone who has cammed a car on stock manifolds. Everyone does LT's first. Everyone. Maybe because the Internet says you should? Idk.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing what kind of results we get and what the curves look like. I'm going to keep an eye out for an LS6 intake manifold but I'll use the stock one if I can't find one. It's easy to change down the road.

Posted by: Ojustracing Aug 10 2016, 03:19 PM

When I bought my car it had Mac mid-lengths, Y-pipe and custom merge collector. I had installed 5.3 ported heads, Custom Cam from TEA 222/222 .581 xer on a 114+4. It made RWHP 400hp/425ftlbs. Drove like a dump truck and you didn't have to rev it to the moon. Even with mid lengths and a lowered car you have to be mind-full of speed bumps.

Posted by: Steve91T Aug 10 2016, 03:20 PM

Man I can't wait to get back to work on this car. I'm so excited about it. Oh that reminds me, I need to get in touch with the detailer and the dent remover dude.

So I'm going to tint the windows with whatever the legal limit is. The last thing I need to start thinking about is wheels. Are those 16's worth anything? The PO has them re finished and are honestly flawless. The tires have probably 80% tread.

With my car, I'm going for the blacked out look. I know, not very original, but I like it. What wheels would you put on the car? I talked to him about the wheels briefly and he agrees we should go with 18's to fit larger brakes and that's just where everything is headed anyway. Should I stick with 275's or can I easily fit larger? I've read on here that you guys say that wider tires make a big difference, but I think I read that you don't want more than 275's for the street.

When he does a track day, he's going to drive it to and from the track. So he's probably use something like NT05's for steet and occasional track.

We'll take brakes later, but I think I just want to get some ducting to the LS1 brakes and some good Carbotech pads. We'd swap the pads out for the track. They'd be ok driving to and from the track.

Posted by: trackbird Aug 10 2016, 03:28 PM

My corvette had stainless works headers. They were really nice. It also took me over 2 hours to get the MSD starter in the car with the headers just hanging in place where I could install them once the starter was in. Then they had slip fit collectors and when I was pulling the transmission to sell it....I basically destroyed the y pipe trying to hammer it off the headers. I finally took a sawzall to the Y pipe and trashed it to get the transmission out. I couldn't imagine trying to change a clutch at a track event with those. Yes, I know the LSx engines shouldn't burn boots like the SBC's do. It's the rest of it that I'm trying to avoid.

As for testing:

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/ls1-engine-header-test/

Sadly they didn't retest with the manifolds after the cam swap here:

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/ls1-engine-cam-install/

Posted by: landstuhltaylor Aug 10 2016, 06:40 PM

Maybe it's just me, but I've never understood why people are so worried about scraping the exhaust on the ground. It doesn't take much to change your approach angle and get over whatever it is with zero issue. Worst case they scrape a bit and they will self clearance eventually. It's not like anyone here is running some absurdly low ride height.

<--- Drove a Jetta for two years that was lowered ~3 inches and the oil pan/trans was the first thing to scrape over anything. Sold it with rolled bacon fenders and no rust since it would all just get scraped off before it could form.

Posted by: Steve91T Aug 11 2016, 03:09 AM

QUOTE (landstuhltaylor @ Aug 10 2016, 02:40 PM)

Posted by: Steve91T Aug 13 2016, 08:25 PM

Got an email today. I'm really considering it. I'd have to change that huge cam for the one Texas Speed recommended, but it's cheap enough. After the cam change, I'd have about $2k into it. Then I'd sell my bottom end for whatever I can get. I think it would end up being about the same price but then I'd have a 100k bottom end instead of a 172k mile bottom end.

Thoughts?


Here are the emails:

Hey man I've got the stock bottom end out of my z06 for sale. Comes with a vengeance vindicator cam, ls7 lifters, melling high volume/high pressure oil pump. Motor has about 100k on it, cam and lifters and oil pump have about 10k. Im in sc(Anderson to be exact) and was asking 1400 obo.

Hey Steve,

The cam specs are 240/244 .605/.596 112 lsa, honestly I still got mid 20s mpg on the highway. The only oil burning issue it ever had was from a loose valve stem seal the shop left loose. Other than a valve stem issue it never really used any noticeable amount. Bottom end held high compression numbers and leak down values a cross the board. Oil pressure held pretty rock steady idling in the 50 lbs area even when hot.

The motor in its current form is a completely assembled shortblock. I took the oil pan off to use on my new motor setup but other that I sealed it up and wheeled the stand off to the side of the garage. It was pulled about a month back for two reasons really. I had a buddy who was "buying it for sure" and I believed him since he had bought my intake manifold and heads, so why not this.... well he no longer has the money and I don't want to endlessly wait so it's got to go, and the other reason is I was doing a turbo build and wanted a motor I could really beat on and make lots of power and not worry about since I'll be tuning on this one so I shoved a 5.3 iron block in the car.

The motor never did me wrong. Always a stout performer, but I dailydrove it for 2 years with absolutely zero issues. The front timing cover and all is still on the motor, lifters haven't came unmatted from the cam, heck the lifter trays are still bolted in the block.

Posted by: Ojustracing Aug 13 2016, 08:36 PM

Is this cam going to need headers??? Also how much for a tune?

Posted by: Steve91T Aug 13 2016, 08:55 PM

QUOTE (Ojustracing @ Aug 13 2016, 04:36 PM)

Posted by: JimMueller Aug 13 2016, 10:35 PM

That Vindicator cam has 18* of overlap @ .050" lift, Papa wouldn't care for that Unfortunately, you don't ever know what you're getting into until you inspect it. I got a used LS1 shortblock years ago from PA with Wiseco slugs in it for $1000 which lasted me for a few years, you might be able to haggle him down if it has 100K miles on the stock rotating assembly. I don't have any personal experience, but I've read concerns in the past about high volume oil pumps pumping oil out of the pan faster... might want to look into that. I've always replaced parts which are relatively inexpensive during builds, and that includes oil pump, pickup tube, etc.

Posted by: Steve91T Aug 13 2016, 10:41 PM

I would change that big cam to the Texas Speed cam I mentioned earlier. I'd sell the vindicator cam

Posted by: Steve91T Aug 15 2016, 08:22 PM

I'm sticking with the block I have. It'd be too much work and risk to get another used block. If that block had the cam I wanted, then that might be worth it.

Anyway, I picked out a set of wheels for my dad. I know, not very original.

http://www.forgestar.com/wheels/collection/rotary-forged-monoblock-series/f14/

18x11's with 315/30/18's. Think it'll be too wide for the street? Remember it won't be a daily.

Posted by: JimMueller Aug 15 2016, 09:06 PM

Whether they'll be too wide for the street is subjective. I run 17x11 315/35/17 NT05's in my daily driver the last few years, but I'm in Florida and where I drive the pavement is in pretty good shape.

Posted by: Steve91T Aug 15 2016, 09:50 PM

QUOTE (JimMueller @ Aug 15 2016, 05:06 PM)

Posted by: Steve91T Oct 8 2016, 07:52 PM

Finally got back to work on the 1sc and got the engine out!

Actually my daughter did all the work, I'm just taking credit.

The quick jack lift made life so much easier. Still had to lift the front, but it was still much easier than using floor jacks.


http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/D2AB93CB-D8E4-4B6E-A16C-1458CD54187D.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/34148176-CECE-4495-B77F-EF5BDEC57E94.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/9CC01D27-9121-4853-9551-05E2D50A7E68.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/6EB48DDA-F496-4F64-9036-E1D4A3DE0D09.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/A1CBD778-C109-406E-980A-0A779C180CBA.jpg.html

The cool thing I wheeled the whole thing back under the car sideways so I can still get my Camaro in

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/6F9893BF-BA98-442C-96B2-24A45279BF18.jpg.html

Time to start ordering fun parts!

Posted by: Ojustracing Oct 8 2016, 09:41 PM

Steve

What did you end up doing for parts??

Posted by: Steve91T Oct 9 2016, 02:27 PM

Nothing yet. Off the top of my head...

Small Texas speed cam kit
Ls2 timing chain set
Ls7 lifters
ARP head studs
New Polly motor mounts
Turn One is going to rebuild the steering rack

Posted by: Steve91T Oct 11 2016, 01:03 AM

Damnit truck....I didn't need this right now.


http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/3E6FE74D-A013-4E84-BC4B-01F8D76805F8.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/C76A1806-2BE0-47CC-A416-F9CEB4B6B816.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/CC986666-ED68-42EF-9DEE-B7BD08FB4FAE.jpg.html

See that out of place quarter looking thing? Well it broke loose and was bouncing around in the bell housing and would randomly jam itself somewhere causing the clutch to not disengage. I baby my clutche. This South Bend clutch should have lasted me....forever. Anyway, I found a great shop that's giving me a 24 hr turn around and a LUK clutch and flywheel. I just kindly need to give them about $1300 in return.

Posted by: BumpaD_Z28 Oct 11 2016, 04:36 AM

South bend clutch ... NV5600 in a Dodge ?

TRUCK DETAILS please

~DaVe

Posted by: trackbird Oct 11 2016, 10:58 AM

QUOTE (BumpaD_Z28 @ Oct 11 2016, 12:36 AM)

South bend clutch ... NV5600 in a Dodge ?

TRUCK DETAILS please

~DaVe

Posted by: Steve91T Oct 11 2016, 01:56 PM

That a ZF6 out of a 99 F250 7.3.


http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/7A7CB6EE-20E5-4250-BD71-2E67327CE406.jpg.html

Posted by: CrashTestDummy Oct 11 2016, 03:57 PM

That's DEFINITELY something I'd let the pros tackle!!

Posted by: Steve91T Oct 11 2016, 04:12 PM

QUOTE (CrashTestDummy @ Oct 11 2016, 11:57 AM)

Posted by: Steve91T Oct 11 2016, 06:19 PM

I just got off the phone with South Bend. They saw the pictures and said that I'm like the 5 person to ever have a spring rivet fail. So because it was nothing I did wrong, they are sending me a new clutch. I looked it up, I bought this clutch 7 years ago, but only put about 35k miles ago...and they are still sending me a new clutch. That's pretty awesome.

Posted by: trackbird Oct 11 2016, 06:26 PM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Oct 11 2016, 02:19 PM)

Posted by: Steve91T Oct 11 2016, 09:08 PM

QUOTE (trackbird @ Oct 11 2016, 02:26 PM)

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Oct 11 2016, 02:19 PM)

I just got off the phone with South Bend. They saw the pictures and said that I'm like the 5 person to ever have a spring rivet fail. So because it was nothing I did wrong, they are sending me a new clutch. I looked it up, I bought this clutch 7 years ago, but only put about 35k miles ago...and they are still sending me a new clutch. That's pretty awesome.

That's pretty impressive. And that pressure plate looks about new. I don't see any real signs of wear on it, or is that just a trick due to the angle of the photo?

Posted by: Steve91T Oct 11 2016, 09:09 PM

In other news, I ordered about $1500 worth of fun parts for the 1SC!

Posted by: Steve91T Oct 12 2016, 01:10 AM

Ok here's my list of what I ordered. Please tell me if I missed something or if there's something I should consider doing while the engine is out.

Texas Speed cam kit
224/224 .600/.600 (112 LSA)
PAC 1218 single beehive springs
7.400" pushrods
Camshaft bolt/gasket kit w/ARP bolt
LS7 lifters

GM head gaskets
GM LS2 timing chain
Texas Speed ported LS6 oil pump


Improved Racing
Oil pan baffles
Crank scraper
O ring
Oil tube brace

Turn One
Rebuilt rack

GM motor mounts

Tune

Ahh, forgot the ARP head bolts. I knew I'd forget something. What else did I forget? Don't say the blower.

Posted by: JimMueller Oct 12 2016, 02:46 AM

Unless you are planning to remove the heads a number of times (or if money isn't really an object), I'd probably opt for standard GM non-reusable head bolts. The ARP bolts are saving you the cost of buying numerous sets of single-use OEM head bolts over the course of time, but bolts still are a pain in the ass when you have to clean out the bolt holes. Studs don't have the problem with cleaning out the bolt holes, but they are even more expensive and some have difficulty pulling the heads with the motor still in the car with studs.

I'd put the money I saved on bolts/studs towards a better timing chain, such as the Katech HME-G68V-2 ($150) or the slightly newer and beefier Hinson IWIS C7R timing chain ($160). I've read that you will have a lot of chain slack with the LS2 chain without a chain dampener. For my LS3 I used the Katech with the OEM LS3 chain dampener, but I don't recall what type of dampener may be available for your block or any special installation considerations.

Here's a running list I have for my future top end rebuild; maybe you'll see some generic part types in here which will tickle your memory. I may not need all of it, but I like to have a complete list of part numbers for ease of ordering.

Lifters (.035" preload +/- .010", requires ~.190" longer pushrod): Johnson ST2126LSR
Head gaskets (custom 4.080" bore, .045" thickness): Cometic
3/8" intake pushrods, .145 wall, .062" orifice (5/16" ball ends), tapered?: Manton Series 3
3/8" exhaust pushrods, .145 wall, .062" orifice (5/16" ball ends), tapered?: Manton Series 3
LS3 assembled cylinder head (hollow int valve): OEM new, send to Darin Morgan for porting
Dual valvesprings w/ tool steel retainers: Brian Tooley SK001
Rocker arm trunnion kit: Straub Technologies
head bolts/studs: Undecided
Water pump gaskets: OEM
valve cover gaskets: OEM
intake manifold bolt (I have one snapped bolt): OEM
Spark plugs: NGK TR6
Front cover seal: OEM
Front cover gasket: OEM
Rear cover (with seal & gasket): OEM
Crankshaft bolt: OEM
Exhaust gasket: OEM
Header bolts: Stage 8 Locking
2-Piece LS2 Gen IV timing cover: Edelbrock 4255
Camshaft
Crank scraper
Oil filter pan magnet: FilterMag SS365-Pair
Clutch: RPS Twin Billet Carbon 2, lightened from Tony Mamo
Slave cylinder & throwout bearing:OEM
Remote clutch speed bleeder: Tick Performance
1 7/8" header primary's: ARH

Posted by: Ojustracing Oct 12 2016, 04:43 AM

lifters? Lifter tray, Oil pick-up tube o-ring, exhaust gaskets. I'm going to assume valve cover, intake, water pump, front cover gaskets and seal. Valve seals? oil pan gasket. If the motor is out of the car for the heads TTY bolts are easy.

Posted by: Steve91T Oct 12 2016, 12:01 PM

QUOTE (Ojustracing @ Oct 12 2016, 12:43 AM)

Posted by: Ojustracing Oct 12 2016, 02:56 PM

Steve

Yes they are easy especially after the valve springs are off. I'm a bit confused. I know the motor you removed munched the lifters and cam. Are you just fixing what is broken? or did you find another motor?

John

Posted by: Steve91T Oct 12 2016, 03:07 PM

QUOTE (Ojustracing @ Oct 12 2016, 10:56 AM)

Posted by: Ojustracing Oct 12 2016, 03:30 PM

exhaust manifold to y-pipe gaskets. Coolant cross over pipe gasket. Again I don't know what comes with the gasket set. Also you might want to consider a clutch/throw-out bearing while apart. This is the issue when the engine is out/apart. What to do/not do. You might also consider having a machine shop check the heads. They could install the springs/seals when apart. Again Do/not do.

Posted by: JimMueller Oct 12 2016, 03:40 PM

GM LS6 timing chain damper (PN reference): http://store.katechengines.com/damper-timing-chain---ls6-p260.aspx
An alternative: http://www.briantooleyracing.com/ls6-timing-chain-dampener-comparable-to-88958607.html

Posted by: Steve91T Oct 12 2016, 07:37 PM

Actually I wasn't even planning on separating the tranny from the engine. It already has an LS7 clutch in it and possibly a light flywheel. I can't remember on the flywheel. Either way, it felt great when I drove it, so I'm going to leave it alone.

It's really tough to decide what to replace and what to leave alone. I'm so tempted to just drop the whole engine off at a shop and let them go through it. But that's a ton of money. I really want to just get it back together and see how it does.

Posted by: Steve91T Oct 13 2016, 08:24 PM

My mom and dad came over last night to eat my food and drink my beer. While drinking my beer we went to the garage and looked at the engine sitting on the garage floor. I showed him the carbon on the heads and we both agree that the very least I'll drop them off at a machine shop and have them cleaned up and decked. The machine shop said they could bump compression up a bit without causing any problems. I'd have to do more research on that though.

Then we started talking about the bottom end. While its out, I could drop it off and have it freshened up also. The shop said about $1k for labor. So $1500 total would be a low end price, but that doesn't include the parts I just ordered.

If my dad was definitely going to keep this thing for a long time, I'd say let's get it freshened up. But he may only keep it for a few years. I really don't know.

As of right now, with just the parts I've ordered, we're into the car for $4600 plus whatever tuning costs. Another thing that he absolutely needs is new wheels. So let's say after cleaning the heads and a mail order tune, we're at $5k. Another $1k for wheels and tires after I sell the 16's. So that's $6k for a mildly cammed LS1 with 172k miles on the bottom end. Or $7500 or so for the same thing but with a fresh engine.


I'm torn.

Posted by: nape Oct 14 2016, 01:24 AM

I'd go with the $6k all-in unless you're planning on running a lot of auto-x or track days. Even then, I'd probably just save for a fresh short block in case you ka-boom that one.

With those miles, a fresh engine won't bring any more money unless you find someone who REALLY likes the car.

As far as machine work on the heads, I'd get a quote and run that vs. Ebay 799 heads. There are a bunch of sellers on there for ~$500 shipped already freshened. If your's need guides too, it might be a push.

Posted by: Steve91T Oct 14 2016, 01:38 AM

QUOTE (nape @ Oct 13 2016, 09:24 PM)

Posted by: Steve91T Oct 17 2016, 08:09 PM

Turn One is looking at a 2 week turn around to rebuild the rack. Any recommendations for rebuilt units anywhere else?

Posted by: Steve91T Oct 17 2016, 11:37 PM

More fun parts showed up!!!

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/52B5822B-D7D6-4A32-A73B-F7E21B45C6E2.jpg.html

Posted by: trackbird Oct 17 2016, 11:56 PM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Oct 17 2016, 07:37 PM)

Posted by: 79T/A Oct 17 2016, 11:57 PM

My ACdelco rebuild from rock auto has given zero issues. Turn one builds a great pump, but they don't do anything special to the racks.

Posted by: Steve91T Oct 18 2016, 12:50 AM

QUOTE (79T/A @ Oct 17 2016, 07:57 PM)

Posted by: 79T/A Oct 18 2016, 02:11 AM

A reman acdelco rack is 225 on rock auto, including a $75 core charge. Turn one rebuilds start at $225 plus shipping both ways. Even though you have to pay to shop your core back, it still ends up being cheaper. The rebuild process is no different between the two.

Posted by: Steve91T Oct 18 2016, 03:58 AM

Did some cleaning tonight.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/A3D40820-8CD7-42A1-B2B9-CF16B824EB02.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/7AEC314F-7745-405B-A7B9-0D6DFF2D1992.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/2014F5B5-D665-4E71-8F37-8B7DF9618564.jpg.html


I think I'm going to clean the heads up myself.


http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/37B2FB49-6E33-4E50-B718-5DB2CCF433F3.jpg.html

Posted by: Steve91T Oct 18 2016, 02:24 PM

QUOTE (79T/A @ Oct 17 2016, 10:11 PM)

Posted by: JimMueller Oct 18 2016, 08:14 PM

Any idea what type of pistons you have in that block? I've never seen a piston with a darker circle in the center of the head, new or after cleanup.

Posted by: Steve91T Oct 18 2016, 09:33 PM

QUOTE (JimMueller @ Oct 18 2016, 04:14 PM)

Posted by: rocky Oct 18 2016, 11:17 PM

I thought flat top pistons were 4.8 pistons.

Posted by: Steve91T Oct 19 2016, 12:13 AM

No i know the LS1 came with flat tops.

Posted by: trackbird Nov 14 2016, 01:42 AM

So, what's the latest? What did you do with the engine? Is it back together yet?

Posted by: Steve91T Nov 14 2016, 02:26 PM

Life has gotten in the way once again!!! I've been out of town a ton, way more than usual. I'm actually going to try to get the cam swapped tonight once I get home. And I should be getting my heads back soon.

Oh I think I forgot to mention that. So my buddy is a spotter for one of the NASCAR cup drivers and obviously knows a bunch of people in the sport. Well one of his good friends used to build NASCAR engines for one of the teams and has a little side business building engines. He has my heads and is going to clean them under for me.

So hopefully soon I'll have this thing back in the car! Soon as in less than like 4 months. Lol

Posted by: trackbird Nov 14 2016, 02:32 PM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Nov 14 2016, 09:26 AM)

Posted by: Steve91T Nov 15 2016, 09:26 PM

Off to a fantastic start...



http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/AF41861E-4F50-4A3C-AE21-F30CACE6156B.jpg.html

Posted by: CrashTestDummy Nov 15 2016, 09:29 PM

Dang! I don't think that will polish out.

Posted by: Steve91T Nov 15 2016, 09:53 PM

QUOTE (CrashTestDummy @ Nov 15 2016, 04:29 PM)

Posted by: Steve91T Nov 15 2016, 10:18 PM

Well I've now broken it in 3 different places. I've changed to a regular hammer thinking it'll have more shock than the rubber dead blow. I've been putting pressure on it, heating around the hub, and then hitting the back side with the hammer while turning it. I'd do a few passes then put a little more tension on it, then more heat and another pass with the hammer.

She's not budging.

It's ok though. My wife just came home with beer.

Posted by: Steve91T Nov 15 2016, 11:29 PM

Ok I'm giving up on the 3 jaw puller. I'm going to work on removing the 3 bolts and using a pulled that threads into those bolts. The bolts are 10mm but slightly rounded from someone. So my socket slips before they budge. Any recommendations on what tool to use to get those out?

Posted by: trackbird Nov 16 2016, 12:31 AM

Don't you have to remove the center bolt before pulling it off?

Posted by: Steve91T Nov 16 2016, 01:04 AM

QUOTE (trackbird @ Nov 15 2016, 07:31 PM)

Posted by: Steve91T Nov 16 2016, 02:34 AM

Holy defeated. Man I don't know what to do. So I went to lowes and got a rounded bolt exteafor set (needed one anyway) and easily got the 3 bolts out. Then I got my puller that screws into the three holes. I thought for sure this wood work. Well the good news is it never failed. The bad news, it didn't budge. That balanced was actually laughing at me. I had one hand holding a screwdriver in the flywheel, and the other on a 2 ft. breaker bar. I had so much tension on it I was actually afraid the whole thing might explode.

I really don't know why I tell people that I actually enjoy working on cars.

Posted by: trackbird Nov 16 2016, 03:01 AM

You could pull the rod and main caps loose, remove the crank and have it pressed off on a hydraulic press. Or if you have a pretty serious balancer puller, you could lean on it with an impact gun and then smack the balancer with a hammer (or try heating it, or both).

Posted by: CrashTestDummy Nov 16 2016, 04:09 AM

QUOTE (trackbird @ Nov 15 2016, 06:31 PM)

Posted by: 79T/A Nov 16 2016, 05:06 AM

Buy a flywheel holding tool. Seriously, it's worth the money. You don't have to worry about holding the flywheel in place and you can actually get some torque on that thing.

Also, get a bigger breaker bar and hang off the end of that f-er. LS1 balancers get pressed so hard onto the crank from the 200+ ft-lbs of torque originally applied on that ARP bolt. Oh, and heat the shit out of it. Make sure it's a real torch, need something stronger than propane.

Posted by: Steve91T Nov 16 2016, 05:16 AM

Is there no danger of effing up the crank? I can't help but to think that I'm pulling/heating/beating on pretty much the heart of the engine.

Posted by: trackbird Nov 16 2016, 11:56 AM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Nov 16 2016, 12:16 AM)

Posted by: Steve91T Nov 16 2016, 01:37 PM

QUOTE (trackbird @ Nov 16 2016, 06:56 AM)

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Nov 16 2016, 12:16 AM)

Is there no danger of effing up the crank? I can't help but to think that I'm pulling/heating/beating on pretty much the heart of the engine.

The thrust bearing will be what sees most of the pounding. And you're replacing the bearings....right? I wouldn't go nuts on it with a sledgehammer, but a few whacks from a 3 lb hammer or similar shouldn't be a huge deal.

Also, I use one of these:

http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS-Performance-Products/JEGS-Balancer-Crank-Gear-Removal-Tool-Bushing/756875/10002/-1

My first one was from Tavia (the manufacturer) but I loaned it to a friend (not sure who) and never got it back. So I have the Jegs version now (likely made by Tavia). It lets you pull crank bolt and use it to save the crank. They have Ford and Chevy SB versions. Not sure if it fits an LSx.

Posted by: Ojustracing Nov 16 2016, 04:10 PM

Steve you have a picture of the three jaw puller you are using? You may have to step up to much larger one that has the ability to grab the pulley from behind. The side benefit is the center bolt is much bigger and you can crank on them. I have better luck with a impact wrench.

Also as other have asked. You are 100 percent sure its not hitting on the bolt. I remember at some point of my career doing the same thing on something and saying that the bolt is loose which it was but it was hitting on a washer.

Posted by: slowTA Nov 16 2016, 04:46 PM

Is it possible the crank bolt screwed itself back in when you tightened the puller bolt down?

I've done a few balancers, fortunately with the motor in the car, manual trans stuck in top gear, brake set, wheels chocked... to keep the car from moving too.

It isn't an easy job.... good luck.

Posted by: Steve91T Nov 16 2016, 10:25 PM

I got it!!!! Man that sucked. So today I went back to work and I noticed that I mushroomed the end of the puller. I also removed the bot just to rule out that it wasn't threading itself back it. Honestly, it may have. I used a smaller bolt and washer and was kinda expecting the balancer to just slip right off. But it didn't. So I actually stripped the end of the puller, so its trash. I seem to be pretty good at turning expensive things into junk. So I tried the 3 jaw again with the 3 screws removed, it separated into two pieces. I was then able to get a good grip on the inner hub. I put a lot of heat on the hub (as much as I could with propane), jammed my screwdriver and started putting some torque on it with the breaker bar. Just when I was getting ready to give up, it poped so loud it rang like a bell through the engine. I thought something broke. Then I realized the puller was just ever so slightly looser. Cranked again on it and it rang like a bell again. It did that no less than 2 dozen times, getting slightly easier each time. It's finally off.

That was awful. I just hope I didn't damage the bearings.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/FD46D3E6-66A6-4212-8F48-D42D40B02C9E.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/31C1C7CB-7B69-4895-ABD1-DE2087F753D3.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/D15CB279-1CB6-41A0-9438-7C6BEFC104F1.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/B8EA0097-85E5-4927-B4A6-A57105025151.jpg.html

Posted by: trackbird Nov 16 2016, 10:35 PM

Holy shit-sticks!

Glad it's off. What a pain in the ass.

Posted by: CrashTestDummy Nov 17 2016, 09:52 PM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Nov 16 2016, 04:25 PM)

Posted by: trackbird Nov 17 2016, 11:59 PM

QUOTE (CrashTestDummy @ Nov 17 2016, 04:52 PM)

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Nov 16 2016, 04:25 PM)

<SNIP>I seem to be pretty good at turning expensive things into junk.
<SNIP>

Nah, that's Kevin's job!!

(read his sig)

Posted by: Steve91T Nov 23 2016, 07:39 PM

Whoa. I wasn't expecting that. No wonder it made such a racket! I can't believe it ran for so long like this.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/597E8FD9-77C7-42D4-8031-CEB5BDDAD2EB.jpg.html


http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/6AE1131C-289E-4CA9-8798-9ADDC05D1379.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/87C5F24B-5B3C-4D47-9026-5E1E0E391563.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/71BFA4EB-44BE-435B-A8D4-8812E862056B.jpg.html

Posted by: Steve91T Nov 23 2016, 07:51 PM

Crap.


http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/DA60DD33-17DD-4B7B-A69B-103017AB0FFE.jpg.html

Posted by: trackbird Nov 24 2016, 02:11 AM

I put cam bearings in my SBC and bought the tools to do it. It wasn't too difficult and the tools weren't real expensive. Might be worth looking into it.

Posted by: Steve91T Nov 24 2016, 03:51 AM

QUOTE (trackbird @ Nov 23 2016, 09:11 PM)

Posted by: CrashTestDummy Nov 24 2016, 05:07 AM

You have it down this far, I'd try to do that work only once. Check the mains!!

A set of bearings are cheap. A set of bearings, couple of rods, and the crank regrind aren't.

Posted by: trackbird Nov 25 2016, 01:42 AM

QUOTE (CrashTestDummy @ Nov 24 2016, 12:07 AM)

Posted by: CrashTestDummy Nov 25 2016, 03:06 AM

Although the cam bearings don't usually look like that, the lifters and cams on the AFM cars do. Many just swap out the cam and offending lifter(s) and ease on down the road with no other issues.

Posted by: trackbird Nov 26 2016, 01:04 AM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Nov 23 2016, 10:51 PM)

Posted by: Ojustracing Nov 26 2016, 01:46 AM

Gene My 13 Tahoe PPV had a lifter turn sideways. It ran for 16 miles and diag time. I can tell you the motor had a crap load of metal in it. The dealer went as far as to remove the oil pan and clean it out. YEAH the cam bearing in the photo above shows some grooving.
But this is the issue we have alluded to earlier. either go for the rebuild or bare bones it back together and wait for it to blow. Steve has to have at least a grand aprox into in just parts. If this thing blows up in 500 miles everything you just did will be junk. Its a tough choice.

Posted by: Steve91T Nov 26 2016, 02:23 PM

Thanks guys! So the grooves are the big red flag, huh?

So we're talking a full rebuild? Any idea about how much money we're talking?

Thanks guys! Hope everyone had an awesome thanksgiving!!!

Posted by: trackbird Nov 26 2016, 07:33 PM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Nov 26 2016, 09:23 AM)

Posted by: Steve91T Nov 26 2016, 07:47 PM

QUOTE (trackbird @ Nov 26 2016, 02:33 PM)

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Nov 26 2016, 09:23 AM)

Thanks guys! So the grooves are the big red flag, huh?

So we're talking a full rebuild? Any idea about how much money we're talking?

Thanks guys! Hope everyone had an awesome thanksgiving!!!

Turn the crank, consider new GM rods (just due to mileage and fatigue) or turn the crank and put new bearings in it. Clean the block (pull the freeze plugs and put it in a wallpaper pan full of hot soapy water and use oil galley brushes on it...that's how we did the LS2 when we rebuilt it). Put the crank and new bearings in it, fresh oil pump, replace the trashed cam and lifters and button it back up with a fresh timing chain. I think that's the "minimum" rebuild at this point.

Posted by: Steve91T Nov 26 2016, 09:34 PM

I've got an idea. I go get an 80k mile LS1 for $3k. Then I swap the heads and cam to my current engine, of course replacing the cam bearings. Then I sell the engine fully disclosing what I did and the unknowns. I'd bet I'd still be able to get close to $3k for it.

I know what you guys are all thinking....genius.

Posted by: Steve91T Nov 27 2016, 12:24 AM

I just got off the phone with the engine builder. He is going to come up with some numbers to rebuild the bottom end including hot tanking the block. He said he'd even swing by the house and pick it up. Super nice guy! He made a good point that I've already got so many new parts, might as well go through the rest.

Posted by: Steve91T Nov 28 2016, 10:30 PM

I called Hawks today and they said they have several long blocks available with 140-150k miles for $700. We would find one that came in running and will have a video of it running. Plus we can pull the vin and run it through carfax and see what we see.

What I like about this is then I can sell my block for whatever I can get for it. $2-300? That means it's only costing me $400-500 for a "new" bottom end. I could prick it up Thursday and get started putting everything together this weekend.

Or I get what I have rebuilt. It'd be brand new. But I'm guessing it'll cost at the very least double and I'm at the mercy of the engine builders timeline with Christmas coming up.

What do you guys think?

Posted by: trackbird Nov 28 2016, 11:26 PM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Nov 28 2016, 05:30 PM)

Posted by: Steve91T Nov 29 2016, 12:22 AM

QUOTE (trackbird @ Nov 28 2016, 06:26 PM)

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Nov 28 2016, 05:30 PM)

I called Hawks today and they said they have several long blocks available with 140-150k miles for $700. We would find one that came in running and will have a video of it running. Plus we can pull the vin and run it through carfax and see what we see.

What I like about this is then I can sell my block for whatever I can get for it. $2-300? That means it's only costing me $400-500 for a "new" bottom end. I could prick it up Thursday and get started putting everything together this weekend.

Or I get what I have rebuilt. It'd be brand new. But I'm guessing it'll cost at the very least double and I'm at the mercy of the engine builders timeline with Christmas coming up.

What do you guys think?

I'd get a quote from the builder for the machine work. $300 for a 150k "timebomb" is likely cheap enough to know that you'll just toss it in the trash when it blows up. It may run quite a while. If you can get everything refreshed and properly rebuilt for around a grand or so, I'd still go that route. Particularly if you're putting heads and a cam in it. Otherwise, throw the inexpensive engine in it and run that while you rebuild the engine you just pulled out. Or some combination of the above.

As far as the timeline, how soon do you plan to drive it? I'm guessing it's mostly going to be put away for the winter. If so, I can't imagine it being a huge rush to get it done. But that's up to you.

Posted by: trackbird Nov 29 2016, 01:57 AM

Ah, I guess you're a little farther south than I realized. In that case, grabbing a 150k take out might be worth it. I thought you were doing ported heads, so I was factoring in the cost factor of having the engine let go and destroy them.

In that case, get a quote and timeline from the engine builder (just so you know) and make the call from there. A solid used engine could be a decent plan. I thought he was planning to keep this car for a while, I didn't realize that wasn't set in stone.

Price both and check the time for each. If you can truly do the used engine for $300-400, it might be a good plan if he's not sure if he's keeping it.

Posted by: Steve91T Nov 29 2016, 03:31 AM

Decision is made. I'm going to pick up a used short block. Engine builder is interesred in buying mine. Any idea what I should ask?

Posted by: trackbird Nov 29 2016, 12:07 PM

Considering the lifter bits floating around in it and all that, I'd be happy if I could get $500 for it. I suspect he's going to offer less ($300-ish). In sales there was a saying "you can always ask" (for a discount, for a price, etc). Tell him you'd like $550 and take what he offers (assuming it is $250 or more). He probably buys cores for "cheap" to rebuild, so I have no idea what he's paying or what might be "reasonable" to him. But you can always ask....

Posted by: Steve91T Nov 29 2016, 11:23 PM

I'm going to jump in the truck and drive the 2 hrs to Hawks tomorrow morning and buy a used short block.

I'll let you guys know how it goes.

Posted by: Steve91T Nov 29 2016, 11:31 PM

Btw, isn't it kinda sad that a complete relatively low mileage LT1 is worth about the same as an LS1 short block that needs to be rebuilt?

Posted by: Steve91T Nov 30 2016, 12:08 AM

Note to self: drain oil before attempting to separate tranny from engine


http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/B2CA5F64-9148-423E-A10C-1C621460978A.jpg.html

Posted by: trackbird Nov 30 2016, 12:22 AM

Where did it leak from?

Posted by: Steve91T Nov 30 2016, 12:26 AM

The front cover is off. When I pulled the tranny the whole thing tipped forward.

Posted by: Steve91T Dec 1 2016, 03:40 AM

Look what I did today! They were great to deal with.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/D204C330-17E0-4280-8727-6A0229AF3396.jpg.html

That's a 14,000 lb crankshaft out of some monster generator.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/9A668C9C-D3B8-4AB6-9204-C4A788FA292B.jpg.html

And one of its eight rod and pistons.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/8E800200-2687-4F9E-A9D7-21DC6992090B.jpg.html


Here's what they gave me for $700. A 155k mile short block. It's out of a running and driving 2000 Camaro. The owner wanted a built iron block. Kinda nice to know it wasn't an unknown wrecked car.
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/CD878FED-9757-49BF-BEC9-C6A88FE25765.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/DCA7A112-7C37-4DE2-9EBA-7DFA5086F32C.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/CC218889-7BED-4075-ABC3-95FD9C38A4B9.jpg.html

Posted by: BumpaD_Z28 Dec 1 2016, 05:47 AM

Much nicer than the one seen here: http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?s=&showtopic=17742&view=findpost&p=188750

Almost like a BEFORE / AFTER

Congrats ! ~DaVe

Posted by: trackbird Dec 1 2016, 12:02 PM

The bearings sure look better when they haven't been "extrude honed" with metal grit. I'd feel a lot better about putting that one in "as is" (though I'd probably still look at the main bearings, or at least one). Based on that cam bearing compared to your old one, I'd say bolt it together and get it back in the car.

Posted by: Ojustracing Dec 1 2016, 03:10 PM

That bearing looks better than the cam bearing on my 40k ls1 when I changed the cam!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Steve91T Dec 2 2016, 01:09 AM

Thanks guys! I'm pretty stoked. I'm going to just run it as is.

I'm going to order some parts tonight.

Intake manifold gaskets
Knock sensors w/harness
Lifter trays

I obviously need to move the clutch/flywheel over to the new block. Will an LT1 clutch alignment tool work?

Posted by: trackbird Dec 2 2016, 02:01 AM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Dec 1 2016, 08:09 PM)

Posted by: Steve91T Dec 2 2016, 03:34 AM

QUOTE (trackbird @ Dec 1 2016, 09:01 PM)

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Dec 1 2016, 08:09 PM)

I obviously need to move the clutch/flywheel over to the new block. Will an LT1 clutch alignment tool work?

As well as anything.

I once used a 3/4" (I think) deepwell (1/2" drive) Craftsman socket. I put a 1/2" to 3/8" step down adapter and a 3/8" to 1/4" step down in that (so I could theoretically turn it with a 1/4" ratchet). I put exactly one wrap of electrical tape on the socket and it fit snuggly into the splines on the clutch disk. The 1/4" socket adapter fit inside the pilot bearing and the 1/2" to 3/8" adapter "keyed" on the radius of the pilot bearing. It's likely the first time I ever installed a clutch that I didn't have issues with clutch alignment. Those plastic alignment tools always resulted in "heartache".

I recently bought the tool from Jegs that has arbors to fit tight in the bearings. We used it on the 6 speed swap and it was better than the plastic one, but I think my socket version worked best. Just find the closest socket that isn't too large, and grab the electrical tape. Have someone push in on the socket while you snug the bolts to hold the clutch from shifting.

Posted by: trackbird Dec 2 2016, 12:20 PM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Dec 1 2016, 10:34 PM)

Posted by: CrashTestDummy Dec 2 2016, 03:40 PM

Like plastic sink drain piping with a cap on one end works PERFECTLY as a tail housing plug for a TH350. Easier to source than the 'universal' tail housing plugs, too.

Posted by: trackbird Dec 2 2016, 07:27 PM

QUOTE (CrashTestDummy @ Dec 2 2016, 10:40 AM)

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Dec 1 2016, 10:34 PM)

Posted by: Steve91T Dec 3 2016, 11:26 PM

No that totally makes sense. I appreciate the tip.

So any other recommendations on how to go about putting this engine together? I'm thinking about getting a cheap quart of oil and pouring it down every nook and cranny that I can find before putting the pan on. I'm thinking it'll help clean whatever crap might be in.m there. Then I'll bolt the pan on, do the cam and oil pump and basically go from there.

Soubd good?

Posted by: 79T/A Dec 3 2016, 11:49 PM

Pretty much. ATF has a ton of detergents and does a great job cleaning, just make sure you don't leave any in the motor.

Posted by: Steve91T Dec 4 2016, 01:24 AM

LS7 clutch and aluminum flywheel off. New rear cover gasket and rear main seal in hand. New pilot bearing showing up tomorrow.

Also tomorrow I'm dropping my Camaro off at my dads. Im tired of shuffling cars around just to work on getting this car back together.

Posted by: CrashTestDummy Dec 4 2016, 02:53 AM

Don't forget to get a couple of grade 5 bolts that fit the upper bolt holes for the transmission, cut the heads off, and cut a slot in them so you can remove them with a screw driver. Use those to stab the transmission. It helps with the alignment, and installing the trans. Not sure how it will all work with the LS clutch release bearing, but we'd put the clutch together, bellhousing, and then set the transmission in place, having someone press the clutch pedal as we pushed the transmission home. Works like magic.

Posted by: nape Dec 4 2016, 04:46 AM

Flywheel holders are for suckers:

Posted by: Steve91T Dec 5 2016, 01:30 AM

^^^^ What the hell am I looking at?

Posted by: Steve91T Dec 5 2016, 02:53 AM

My Camaro is now at my parents house so I have room to work. I pulled the pan tonight in the old engine. Man I'm surprised at how black the oil is. And it's so gritty. I also found a few big chunks of metal in the pan.

So I really need to clean this pan. A whole bunch of brake cleaner?

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/485AA0F8-9110-4DFC-BE02-4586EC1DB74B.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/C5A081EC-7BB8-442A-AD19-0EFE8BBA7D4E.jpg.html

Posted by: nape Dec 5 2016, 04:18 AM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Dec 4 2016, 07:30 PM)

Posted by: nape Dec 5 2016, 04:20 AM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Dec 4 2016, 08:53 PM)

Posted by: Steve91T Dec 6 2016, 04:58 AM

So I used a bunch of gas and a little brake clean to clean out the pan. I found what I think are rare earth magnets on the oil filter. They are so strong I thought they were epoxied to the filter. I used those to pick up all the rest of the metal. This is the metal I found in the pan after already flushing it with gas. Pretty much the rest of the lifter.


http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/27F57CE5-3DCA-4D65-8489-5287B55DA768.jpg.html

Clean pan w/Improved Racing baffles.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/E2FD8CC2-7E9D-413B-906D-484E6F46D748.jpg.html

Posted by: Steve91T Dec 7 2016, 01:21 AM

Damnit I'm such an idiot.

I saw the gasket on the block but it was so stuck I thought it was part of the block. It never connected in my little brain that the pan was flat and the block surface wasn't.

I was torquing the pan bolts down when it snapped. It broke with almost no effort at all.

Think there's a chance it won't leak? I'm assuming you guys will say "of course it's going to leak you idiot!"

I gotta find a new pan tomorrow. I might have to run down to Hawks again tomorrow morning. I really don't want to spend 4 hrs in the car though.

In other news, the block is clean and the Imoroved Racing parts are awesome!

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/F3FDD485-5CD9-417E-9D34-53C98BD63371.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/C2E03F6F-3933-40B7-BEFE-A07C12C586D2.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/19D24BE2-D668-4CE6-9845-394C27F74A96.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/83BED363-CD18-4179-8A9C-E8D1B9F7D625.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/E5378863-88F7-4B91-ACF0-54FD47FA5C1C.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/FCA0B17D-8BA6-4154-9DE9-98F8E5816258.jpg.html

Posted by: trackbird Dec 7 2016, 03:17 AM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Dec 6 2016, 08:21 PM)

Posted by: BumpaD_Z28 Dec 7 2016, 06:03 AM

Old pan and broken piece available ? I could have it welded

Posted by: Steve91T Dec 7 2016, 04:27 PM

So I realized that I didn't have to stop what I was doing. I bolted the pan to the block and I'll just keep moving forward putting this engine back together. I already found someone that'll sell me a pan for $75. I'll call Hawks also when they answer the phones at 1:30 and see what they say. I'll just have a pan shipped and when it shows up I'll swap it out.

Posted by: Steve91T Dec 7 2016, 04:32 PM

QUOTE (BumpaD_Z28 @ Dec 7 2016, 01:03 AM)

Old pan and broken piece available ? I could have it welded

Posted by: GCrites80s Dec 7 2016, 07:25 PM

We sure do break a lot of parts on non-moving cars here on FRRAX.

Posted by: Steve91T Dec 8 2016, 01:33 AM

QUOTE (GCrites80s @ Dec 7 2016, 02:25 PM)

Posted by: Steve91T Jan 22 2017, 01:57 AM

I'm putting the new heads on the new block and the light caught the old cam just right. I never noticed just how much material was removed by the bad lifter.


http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/32724BD8-AE40-4107-81BB-83F817B3BB1D.jpg.html

Posted by: CrashTestDummy Jan 22 2017, 03:44 AM

Man, that looks like a failed DOD cam!

Posted by: Steve91T Feb 4 2017, 02:21 PM

Progress!!

So I tried to get the corner of the oil pan welded but they were afraid it would warp. Since the break is outside of the sealing surface, we thought the best option was to JB weld it. So they ground it back for me to give me room to JB weld it. It's JB welded on all sides, so hopefully it holds. I also put some RTV in that area just to make sure.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/322A3D79-2D92-43A7-B1AF-3C7743E17649.jpg.html

Painted the valve covers.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/5E231565-A8E8-45D8-A30A-C3ED5C31A725.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/840DD6B9-43C3-456C-8A99-C0201BBB6E8E.jpg.html

My little helper


http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/379EE839-14E9-4559-8662-B78F84006032.jpg.html

The LS7 clutch that came with the car went back on.


http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/2181B5B5-8CF6-42C6-B7B7-C70D8ECAE12B.jpg.html

As she sits right now! I'm running out of parts to install so I guess that means I'm getting close!

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/F4D68B51-4568-432F-ABBA-EA2340033A94.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/48C7C689-86AB-46DC-98E2-BD4216B4AB1E.jpg.html

That intake manifold gave me a hard time. 9 out of the 10 bolts had boogered up threads. I have no idea what happened but they were threading a good ways then started getting tough. I almost broke a bolt just trying to back it out. So I ran to autozone and rented a tap set and chased all the threads in the heads and on the bolts. Fortunately it worked and they are all torqued down.

She's going back in the car on Sunday!

Posted by: Steve91T Feb 4 2017, 02:56 PM

So my brothers 818 has been running like crap. Literally running so rich it would blow black smoke at idle and foul the plugs right away. So while my brother was in training for the air national guard, my dad and I grabbed a trailer and brought it from his house to a performance shop that specializes in Subaru's. They had some amazing cars there. Anyway, after about a month (there was no rush) they made some changes and got it tuned. It made decent numbers for a stock WRX. Going to be a rocket weighing only 2000 lbs.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/A69EECD2-8D52-4A7A-88D0-D456F1891F0B.png.html

So I picked it up and dropped it off at a car detailer that I know. He polished the gel coat and it looks really good.

After the detailer was done a few weeks later I grabbed yet another uhaul trailer and headed over to get it. That's when he called saying he was letting it warm up and it just died. He ran out and put gas in it but that wasn't it. Sounds like a wiring problem. So we got some people to help us push it onto the trailer and I headed to my parents house where were all going to hang out for the night.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/8F35C536-BD81-45D9-B2FC-560753923479.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/786A8D67-6892-4C15-8DDB-F036C5ABCA87.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/694990D0-B3EF-40D0-9234-8FE416BC568D.jpg.html

Pretty good looking car!

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/441CA3BD-53CC-4220-976B-596454BB8512.jpg.html

We poked around and couldn't find anything. So we drank beer and just stared at it. The whole plan was to get the car running while my brother was in training so when he got home he would have a finished car. Well, that didn't happen.

He thanked us for our efforts and really appreciates it, but he did mention that when he left he had a running car. Haha. Hey, at least it's pretty!

We honestly think it's a bad ground. So we're going to check for spark and start checking grounds. That's the plan today! Hopefully we find the problem and finally get to drive it!

Posted by: Steve91T Feb 12 2017, 03:27 PM

Well two weekends of working on the 818 and it's still totally dead. No spark. There's no signal to fire the coil packs. The only thing it could be is a bad ECU. Fortunately there are a bunch of them on eBay for $150. So we're going to get another one, plug it in and see what happens. I just can't believe an ECU can just fail like that. We checked all the grounds in the pin outs and they are all good. So idk.

Anyway, in other knees, the LS1 is going back into the 1SC this afternoon! Pics to come later tonight.

Posted by: Steve91T Feb 12 2017, 11:16 PM

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/A866999C-DDEA-4778-9A55-BC4371F8D63A.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/727875CF-B00E-4304-8544-CD794EF01379.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/5AC75F4C-8679-45F7-BC4E-5689B7D4700B.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/76591E7B-FA6B-4087-997A-196FE990ADEA.jpg.html

Just sorting out the wiring now!

Posted by: Steve91T Feb 13 2017, 01:06 AM

Hey what fluid do you guys recommend for a high mileage T56 that'll see 1-2 HPDE's a year? The internet has too many opinions.

Posted by: GCrites80s Feb 13 2017, 02:01 AM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Feb 12 2017, 10:27 AM)

Posted by: trackbird Feb 13 2017, 02:38 AM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Feb 12 2017, 08:06 PM)

Posted by: BumpaD_Z28 Feb 13 2017, 06:10 AM

QUOTE (trackbird @ Feb 12 2017, 07:38 PM)

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Feb 12 2017, 08:06 PM)

Hey what fluid do you guys recommend for a high mileage T56 that'll see 1-2 HPDE's a year? The internet has too many opinions.

I've always run Mobile 1. Years and years and multiple cars and tons of autocross and tried on a track in Nashville in July (hot). I never had any issues. It's what's in the garage to go in my trans when it's done.

Posted by: trackbird Feb 13 2017, 11:53 AM

QUOTE (BumpaD_Z28 @ Feb 13 2017, 01:10 AM)

QUOTE (trackbird @ Feb 12 2017, 07:38 PM)

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Feb 12 2017, 08:06 PM)

Hey what fluid do you guys recommend for a high mileage T56 that'll see 1-2 HPDE's a year? The internet has too many opinions.

I've always run Mobile 1. Years and years and multiple cars and tons of autocross and tried on a track in Nashville in July (hot). I never had any issues. It's what's in the garage to go in my trans when it's done.

I agree, Mobil 1 .. but specifically the 0W40 "Euro" ... higher ZDPP levels / etc.

~DaVe

Posted by: Steve91T Feb 13 2017, 12:55 PM

QUOTE (trackbird @ Feb 12 2017, 09:38 PM)

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Feb 12 2017, 08:06 PM)

Hey what fluid do you guys recommend for a high mileage T56 that'll see 1-2 HPDE's a year? The internet has too many opinions.

I've always run Mobile 1. Years and years and multiple cars and tons of autocross and tried on a track in Nashville in July (hot). I never had any issues. It's what's in the garage to go in my trans when it's done.

Posted by: trackbird Feb 13 2017, 01:10 PM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Feb 13 2017, 07:55 AM)

QUOTE (trackbird @ Feb 12 2017, 09:38 PM)

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Feb 12 2017, 08:06 PM)

Hey what fluid do you guys recommend for a high mileage T56 that'll see 1-2 HPDE's a year? The internet has too many opinions.

I've always run Mobile 1. Years and years and multiple cars and tons of autocross and tried on a track in Nashville in July (hot). I never had any issues. It's what's in the garage to go in my trans when it's done.

Exactly what kind of Mobile 1? ATF? I was surprised at the limited selection at autozone last night.

Posted by: Steve91T Feb 13 2017, 01:21 PM

QUOTE (trackbird @ Feb 13 2017, 08:10 AM)

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Feb 13 2017, 07:55 AM)

QUOTE (trackbird @ Feb 12 2017, 09:38 PM)

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Feb 12 2017, 08:06 PM)

Hey what fluid do you guys recommend for a high mileage T56 that'll see 1-2 HPDE's a year? The internet has too many opinions.

I've always run Mobile 1. Years and years and multiple cars and tons of autocross and tried on a track in Nashville in July (hot). I never had any issues. It's what's in the garage to go in my trans when it's done.

Exactly what kind of Mobile 1? ATF? I was surprised at the limited selection at autozone last night.

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/mobil1-synthetic-atf-dexron-mercon-automatic-transmission-fluid-1-quart-112980-98hc69/8026503-p?iv_=__iv_p_1_a_214327102_g_12425515822_w_aud-62603320895:pla-286886688932_h_9003689_ii__d_c_v__n_g_x_pla_y_6201684_f_online_o_8026503-P_z_US_i_en_j_286886688932_s__vi__&utm_source=ACQ&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PLA&utm_content=shoppingcampaigns&gclid=CJeerdOSjdICFZy2wAodQIgP2A

Posted by: trackbird Feb 13 2017, 01:55 PM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Feb 13 2017, 08:21 AM)

Posted by: BumpaD_Z28 Feb 13 2017, 01:56 PM

QUOTE (trackbird @ Feb 13 2017, 04:53 AM)

QUOTE (BumpaD_Z28 @ Feb 13 2017, 01:10 AM)

QUOTE (trackbird @ Feb 12 2017, 07:38 PM)

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Feb 12 2017, 08:06 PM)

Hey what fluid do you guys recommend for a high mileage T56 that'll see 1-2 HPDE's a year? The internet has too many opinions.

I've always run Mobile 1. Years and years and multiple cars and tons of autocross and tried on a track in Nashville in July (hot). I never had any issues. It's what's in the garage to go in my trans when it's done.

I agree, Mobil 1 .. but specifically the 0W40 "Euro" ... higher ZDPP levels / etc.

~DaVe

I don't think he wants to run that in his transmission.

Posted by: trackbird Feb 13 2017, 02:31 PM

QUOTE (BumpaD_Z28 @ Feb 13 2017, 08:56 AM)

QUOTE (trackbird @ Feb 13 2017, 04:53 AM)

QUOTE (BumpaD_Z28 @ Feb 13 2017, 01:10 AM)

QUOTE (trackbird @ Feb 12 2017, 07:38 PM)

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Feb 12 2017, 08:06 PM)

Hey what fluid do you guys recommend for a high mileage T56 that'll see 1-2 HPDE's a year? The internet has too many opinions.

I've always run Mobile 1. Years and years and multiple cars and tons of autocross and tried on a track in Nashville in July (hot). I never had any issues. It's what's in the garage to go in my trans when it's done.

I agree, Mobil 1 .. but specifically the 0W40 "Euro" ... higher ZDPP levels / etc.

~DaVe

I don't think he wants to run that in his transmission.

WELLLLLL ... OK

Posted by: Steve91T Feb 13 2017, 04:30 PM

I use Rotella T6 in everything I own.

Posted by: trackbird Feb 13 2017, 06:17 PM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Feb 13 2017, 11:30 AM)

Posted by: ar52kortlang Feb 14 2017, 01:28 AM

Amsoil in mine... also have Amsoil in the crankcase and rear end... I bought a bunch and got entered into a drawing for a free dealer account...I ended up winning but have yet to set the account up...

Posted by: Steve91T Feb 14 2017, 04:12 AM

It runs!!!!!!!!


https://youtu.be/hQB19QRHpcc

It sounds great! Man I'm excited. My tach isn't working so I'll troubleshoot that later.

Posted by: trackbird Feb 14 2017, 12:06 PM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Feb 13 2017, 11:12 PM)

Wanna come help me pull my transmission? It's already on jackstands for this coming weekend.

Posted by: Steve91T Feb 14 2017, 02:51 PM

QUOTE (trackbird @ Feb 14 2017, 07:06 AM)

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Feb 13 2017, 11:12 PM)

It runs!!!!!!!!


https://youtu.be/hQB19QRHpcc

It sounds great! Man I'm excited. My tach isn't working so I'll troubleshoot that later.

Well done! Congrats!!! That has to feel pretty good after this journey.

Wanna come help me pull my transmission? It's already on jackstands for this coming weekend.

Posted by: trackbird Feb 14 2017, 03:07 PM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Feb 14 2017, 09:51 AM)

Posted by: Steve91T Feb 14 2017, 03:42 PM

Yeah...kinda like moving day.


I dumped all the power steering fluid, probably didn't tighten something down. Tons of smoke on the initial start, that had me really worried. It was more than I expected. I shut it off and checked the radiator and oil to make sure a head gasket wasn't sealing or something. Then started it up. It smoked for a while then right about when I was ready to shut it off again, it cleared up. So it was just all the oil and crap inside the engine burning off. The lifters were noisy at first but that was to be expected.

Here's the first start. I had pulled an ignition fuse and cranked it over a bunch to build oil pressure before attempting this start. The tach initially jumped up the dropped to zero.



https://youtu.be/c-joK05YEQ8


It's making great oil pressure! So I'm sure I just have a wiring issue. Just sucks that the cam position sensor is such a bitch to get to. Most have to pull the manifold and I really don't want to do that since the threads aren't in the greatest shape. They are all torqued, but I'm not sure if I'll get away with it again. I should have paid more attention to the wiring harness at the back of the engine. I thought I had it where it needs to be, but maybe not. It might be easier to lower the cross member a few inches to give me more room.

My plan is to run it some more, let it get up to temperature and then change the oil filter. I'm sure there's trash it's catching. I have tap water in the radiator for now, I'll also flush that.

So with a mild cam, it's safe to drive without tuning, correct? Is there any danger? I know it needs to be tuned, but I'd like to drive it for a few hundred miles to work the bugs out before tuning it.

Posted by: trackbird Feb 14 2017, 05:42 PM

Tap water will lead to calcium deposits in the radiator. I had to have the AFCO radiator in my 3rd gen professionally tanked and cleaned to get the crap out of it after I did that. Don't do that. Surely don't drive it that way. And I'd flush it until you were sure you had the majority of the tap water out of it. Flush and fill with distilled water.

Posted by: Steve91T Feb 14 2017, 06:54 PM

Yeah I know. It'll be in the car for like 24 hours. I'll flush it with distilled water and then add water wetter. I think I'll just run that until this winter and replace it with antifreeze.

Posted by: Steve91T Feb 15 2017, 06:25 PM

A step backwards today.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/FB278E4A-AAD5-4300-AAB9-4B431670815B.jpg.html

Found the problem! I forgot to connect the cam position sensor. That'll do it! In the process I broke the wire to the oil pressure sending unit, so I had to solder it. I had to take the connector apart to get enough wire, I really hope it's making a connection.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/0A817528-82F9-454F-B0F6-697D6DFD407E.jpg.html

Posted by: Steve91T Feb 15 2017, 08:39 PM

All better! The threads for the intake manifold held up and all is well. I was worried at first because when I first started the car I had no tach. I. Was. Bummed. But I gave it a tap of the gas and it came to life. And my oil pressure gauge is working, so my soldering fix worked. I probably should have removed it while I could get to it and cleaned it, but I didn't think of it. All I know is it's working and the engine runs great. I still have a check engine light, not sure if that's because of the cam or not. I'll pull codes later tonight.

Posted by: CrashTestDummy Feb 15 2017, 09:38 PM

Heh, that's not a step backwards! You didn't have to drop the engine back out, so you're good!!

Posted by: Steve91T Feb 15 2017, 11:33 PM

QUOTE (CrashTestDummy @ Feb 15 2017, 04:38 PM)

Heh, that's not a step backwards! You didn't have to drop the engine back out, so you're good!!

Posted by: Steve91T Feb 15 2017, 11:44 PM

I'm going to finish up the other things like bleed the brakes tomorrow and then go for a drive. Hopefully I'll be able to get it tuned on Friday.

If I can get it tuned, then I might drop it off with him and let him put some miles on it. I think he's really excited. Right now he's storing my Camaro and he said he took it for a drive the other day and he couldn't believe how nimble it was. He said it reminded him of his lotus Elise. Ha. I'll take that as a compliment.

Posted by: Steve91T Feb 17 2017, 09:45 PM

I'm having one of those "put the tools down and back away" moments....


Wtf am I missing and why the F can't I find it!?!?!

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Steve91T/media/Camaro/003AF171-8222-4DE4-8243-E52309D82A2F.jpg.html

I have the exhaust hooked up and the new tuned ECU in and the last thing on my freaking list is to blead the freaking brakes and I have one bleeder screw totally rusted and rounded and apparently I've lost an entire brake line!

Posted by: Steve91T Feb 17 2017, 11:27 PM

Found it! Bastard was snaked into a hole in the frame.

Went for a quick ride! The engine ran awesome. But I had very little brakes and I blew a power steering hose, so other than that it was a success!!

Posted by: trackbird Feb 18 2017, 03:48 AM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Feb 17 2017, 06:27 PM)

Posted by: Steve91T Feb 19 2017, 08:00 PM

I want to do something with the front end. The grill has been removed, which looks ok. I saw a picture of an OEM grill that was sanded and painted and I think it looks better. What do you guys prefer? I was considering a black billet grill but I'm not sure I like it.

Also I really like the look of some aftermarket projector headlights. I think the darker ones look pretty good bu most seem to be halos.

I'm just curious what you guys prefer.

Posted by: trackbird Feb 19 2017, 09:56 PM

I just took the grill off my original 2002. Well, the body shop did when they repaired the nose when I hit the deer. I just had them leave it off.

Posted by: Steve91T Feb 20 2017, 04:02 PM

So yesterday I fixed the power steering line and took the car to autozone. I can't believe how smooth this car runs on a mail order tune! I was in 5th at 1200 RPM at like 35 MPH and there was no cam surge at all. My dad is going to absolutely love this engine.

So, oil change and radiator flush today. Then I'm going to try my hardest to get the brake bleeder screws out. I have new ones, so if I can get them out, all will be well. If they break off, then I'm going to upgrade to CTS-V 4 piston calipers.

I'm still looking for 18" Z06 wheels but I'm not having any luck.

Posted by: trackbird Feb 20 2017, 04:13 PM

Which cam did you ultimately use?

Posted by: Steve91T Feb 20 2017, 04:30 PM

Texas Speed 224r 112 LSA

You can tell it has a cam in it at idle but it's subtle.

Posted by: trackbird Feb 20 2017, 05:29 PM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Feb 20 2017, 11:30 AM)

Posted by: Steve91T Feb 20 2017, 05:33 PM

QUOTE (trackbird @ Feb 20 2017, 12:29 PM)

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Feb 20 2017, 11:30 AM)

Texas Speed 224r 112 LSA

You can tell it has a cam in it at idle but it's subtle.

Sweet! I think that's larger than I want to deal with, but maybe not. No headers on this one, right?

Posted by: trackbird Feb 20 2017, 06:16 PM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Feb 20 2017, 12:33 PM)

QUOTE (trackbird @ Feb 20 2017, 12:29 PM)

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Feb 20 2017, 11:30 AM)

Texas Speed 224r 112 LSA

You can tell it has a cam in it at idle but it's subtle.

Sweet! I think that's larger than I want to deal with, but maybe not. No headers on this one, right?

Right. Stock manifolds and cats. There is zero drivable issues. Later today when I change the oil I'll take a video of the idle.

Posted by: Steve91T Feb 26 2017, 02:06 PM

I've got a problem with the steering. I get a vibration in the power steering when turning left only. Noticeable when at slow speeds whenn making large steering inputs. I was thinking it was air but its not. It's perfectly smooth to the right but vibrates and grumbles to the left. Fluid is topped off.

So I've got a metal barb in the high pressure line where I had cut the line for engine removal. Could that be a restriction that could cause this?

Dropping the car off at my dads today. Hopefully I'll get some videos this afternoon.

Posted by: ar52kortlang Feb 26 2017, 05:18 PM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Feb 26 2017, 08:06 AM)

Posted by: Steve91T Feb 27 2017, 12:35 AM

So while I had the car on the lift, engine off, key on, I tuned the wheel back and forth and felt no binding. So then I drive the car to my dads house, 45 minutes away and didn't feel any vibrating at all. So I don't know, maybe there was air trapped in there somewhere.

Either way, it doesn't matter now because after my brother took the car for a test drive, it blew a high pressure line again. So I'm going to order new power steering lines and install them next time I'm at my dads.

Posted by: Steve91T Feb 28 2017, 04:36 PM

New power steering lines will be ordered soon. Also we're going to do the CTSV calipers with 5th gen rotors and Carbotech pads. Has anyone had the rotors machined to fit the 4th gens? How much and what kind of a PITA is it? That's the only thing I don't like, but hopefully we won't be changing rotors very often.

So we need wheels. I may try to convince my dad to spend the money for new 18x10.5 speedlines with 315 Nt05's. I can't remember if spacers are required, but either way it'd probably be a good idea to replace all the lugs and studs since these have some miles on them.

So the engine has been running awesome. I hate that I blew the power steering line when I dropped it off because he really wants to drive it and obviously can't. We'll get it fixed soon though.

The only time I got some bucking is really when in parking lots and if I'm not smooth. Being that this is a mail order tune, I'd be willing to bet that can be tuned out with live tuning, which by the way we're going to do in a month or two. I'm anxious to see what the graph looks like with stock manifolds.

The cool thing is driving around in 5th at 30 mph at 1000 RPM is completely smooth. Zero surging. And it still makes enough torque to accelerate a effortlessly with zero protesting.

Last weekend I brought the car to my dads and this was the first time I got on the highway with it. On the on ramp to the highway I flooded it in 2nd and it spun all he way through 2nd. Not enough for me to get out of the gas, but enough to make it interesting. I just can't believe how hard this engine pulls. Now remember, I'm used to LT1's that are like tractor motors, low end torque, not much up top. It's impressive how much torque there is down low with this engine but what's really fun is how it pulls abover 4000.

Anyway, here's a walk around video. We need to take it to a muffler shop to have them fix the connection between the Y and the rest of the exhaust. It's about 1" too short and the only thing holding it together is a band clamp, which leaks.


https://youtu.be/Z57hHKS-Ces

And here my brother is recording while I pull out of my parents neighborhood. It spun through 1st and hooks in 2nd.

https://youtu.be/gkh7Wqwum4E

As it sits right now...

Car $2500
Shipping $600
Used short block $300-$400 (depending on selling old block for 3-400)
Improved Racing $500
TS cam package $850
Heads cleaned w/new seals $260
ARP head bolts $200

Call it $5500 after other gaskets and odd and ends. Not too bad!

Posted by: trackbird Feb 28 2017, 04:40 PM

That's a good report so far. I'm anxious to see the dyno curve after tuning. Then I'll figure out what (if anything) to do to the convertible (unless I collect a second one instead).

Posted by: Mojave Feb 28 2017, 05:02 PM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Feb 28 2017, 10:36 AM)

Posted by: Steve91T Mar 1 2017, 12:11 AM

QUOTE (Mojave @ Feb 28 2017, 12:02 PM)

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Feb 28 2017, 10:36 AM)

New power steering lines will be ordered soon. Also we're going to do the CTSV calipers with 5th gen rotors and Carbotech pads. Has anyone had the rotors machined to fit the 4th gens? How much and what kind of a PITA is it? That's the only thing I don't like, but hopefully we won't be changing rotors very often.

I'm planning to do this swap on my car. According to LS1Tech, the center hole needs to be enlarged by about 3mm, and the wheel stud holes should be large enough to accommodate the difference in bolt pattern (120mm vs 120.65mm). A decent machine shop should be able to handle this pretty easily. If you have a spare old hub laying around, you could give it to them with the rotor to make sure they get it right.

One option would be to use 2 piece rotors, then you only have to enlarge the hat once and you can replace the rings as needed. The only issue with this plan is the cost of 2 piece rotors is crazy, at least for the ones I've found (DBA rotors are at least $340 a piece, and Rock Auto has stock 1 piece rotors for like $38 a piece). If anyone knows an affordable 2 piece rotor, post it up!

Posted by: Steve91T Mar 1 2017, 09:53 PM

What is that little window on the tach? Anyone know?

Posted by: trackbird Mar 2 2017, 12:03 PM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Mar 1 2017, 04:53 PM)

It's a window to see the connecting rods when they pop out of the block? Saves crawling under the car?

Posted by: Steve91T Mar 2 2017, 01:11 PM

QUOTE (trackbird @ Mar 2 2017, 07:03 AM)

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Mar 1 2017, 04:53 PM)

What is that little window on the tach? Anyone know?

????

It's a window to see the connecting rods when they pop out of the block? Saves crawling under the car?

I really don't know what window you're asking about. Pics?

Posted by: trackbird Mar 2 2017, 01:35 PM

I've never seen that? At least not that I can remember.

Posted by: Steve91T Mar 2 2017, 02:31 PM

I thought it looked homemade. I'll call Dave someday and ask him.

Posted by: Mojave Mar 2 2017, 03:26 PM

I agree with Kevin, that isn't factory.

Posted by: JimMueller Mar 2 2017, 05:29 PM

QUOTE (Mojave @ Feb 28 2017, 12:02 PM)

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Feb 28 2017, 10:36 AM)

New power steering lines will be ordered soon. Also we're going to do the CTSV calipers with 5th gen rotors and Carbotech pads. Has anyone had the rotors machined to fit the 4th gens? How much and what kind of a PITA is it? That's the only thing I don't like, but hopefully we won't be changing rotors very often.

I'm planning to do this swap on my car. According to LS1Tech, the center hole needs to be enlarged by about 3mm, and the wheel stud holes should be large enough to accommodate the difference in bolt pattern (120mm vs 120.65mm). A decent machine shop should be able to handle this pretty easily. If you have a spare old hub laying around, you could give it to them with the rotor to make sure they get it right.

One option would be to use 2 piece rotors, then you only have to enlarge the hat once and you can replace the rings as needed. The only issue with this plan is the cost of 2 piece rotors is crazy, at least for the ones I've found (DBA rotors are at least $340 a piece, and Rock Auto has stock 1 piece rotors for like $38 a piece). If anyone knows an affordable 2 piece rotor, post it up!

Posted by: Mojave Mar 2 2017, 05:38 PM

QUOTE (JimMueller @ Mar 2 2017, 11:29 AM)

QUOTE (Mojave @ Feb 28 2017, 12:02 PM)

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Feb 28 2017, 10:36 AM)

New power steering lines will be ordered soon. Also we're going to do the CTSV calipers with 5th gen rotors and Carbotech pads. Has anyone had the rotors machined to fit the 4th gens? How much and what kind of a PITA is it? That's the only thing I don't like, but hopefully we won't be changing rotors very often.

I'm planning to do this swap on my car. According to LS1Tech, the center hole needs to be enlarged by about 3mm, and the wheel stud holes should be large enough to accommodate the difference in bolt pattern (120mm vs 120.65mm). A decent machine shop should be able to handle this pretty easily. If you have a spare old hub laying around, you could give it to them with the rotor to make sure they get it right.

One option would be to use 2 piece rotors, then you only have to enlarge the hat once and you can replace the rings as needed. The only issue with this plan is the cost of 2 piece rotors is crazy, at least for the ones I've found (DBA rotors are at least $340 a piece, and Rock Auto has stock 1 piece rotors for like $38 a piece). If anyone knows an affordable 2 piece rotor, post it up!

That's where I lost interest on swapping to the CTS-V1 setup... having to machine the center of the rotor. I recall reading that the Z06 rotor doesn't need machining but that the pads don't reach to the outside of the rotor and leaves a significant lip.

I don't care to keep a lot of spares... I like the ease of going to a local store and getting spares that bolt right on. Is there a different hub which would match the rotor without machining? If we use the Dulaney adapters, is there a different SKF race bearing which would be compatible?

Posted by: Steve91T Mar 2 2017, 06:44 PM

QUOTE (Mojave @ Mar 2 2017, 12:38 PM)

QUOTE (JimMueller @ Mar 2 2017, 11:29 AM)

QUOTE (Mojave @ Feb 28 2017, 12:02 PM)

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Feb 28 2017, 10:36 AM)

New power steering lines will be ordered soon. Also we're going to do the CTSV calipers with 5th gen rotors and Carbotech pads. Has anyone had the rotors machined to fit the 4th gens? How much and what kind of a PITA is it? That's the only thing I don't like, but hopefully we won't be changing rotors very often.

I'm planning to do this swap on my car. According to LS1Tech, the center hole needs to be enlarged by about 3mm, and the wheel stud holes should be large enough to accommodate the difference in bolt pattern (120mm vs 120.65mm). A decent machine shop should be able to handle this pretty easily. If you have a spare old hub laying around, you could give it to them with the rotor to make sure they get it right.

One option would be to use 2 piece rotors, then you only have to enlarge the hat once and you can replace the rings as needed. The only issue with this plan is the cost of 2 piece rotors is crazy, at least for the ones I've found (DBA rotors are at least $340 a piece, and Rock Auto has stock 1 piece rotors for like $38 a piece). If anyone knows an affordable 2 piece rotor, post it up!

That's where I lost interest on swapping to the CTS-V1 setup... having to machine the center of the rotor. I recall reading that the Z06 rotor doesn't need machining but that the pads don't reach to the outside of the rotor and leaves a significant lip.

I don't care to keep a lot of spares... I like the ease of going to a local store and getting spares that bolt right on. Is there a different hub which would match the rotor without machining? If we use the Dulaney adapters, is there a different SKF race bearing which would be compatible?

The Z06 rotor does leave a lip on the pads, and the rotor offset isn't quite right so you have to space the caliper out a bit with washers. I thought all f-body and C4/C5/C6 hubs used the same center bore, so I would ASSume the race bearings also use the same center bore but I don't have any yet. I have some of the Dulaney adapters but I haven't bought bearings. The 5th gen setup is a different bolt pattern so I don't think that would work.

Compared to the cost of running an aftermarket BBK and replacing rotors, getting 5th gen rotors machined is very cheap, and you won't find Stoptech rotors in stock at the parts store.

Maybe Hoosier/LPE/whatever they are called that does the rebuildable bearings could make a hub with the 5th gen center bore, or you could machine down the hub after you get it, but then you're stuck with bearings that you can't buy from a part store.

If parts store replacement parts are a must, it seems like C5/C6 brakes of some variety are the best option.

Posted by: trackbird Mar 2 2017, 07:42 PM

QUOTE (JimMueller @ Mar 2 2017, 12:29 PM)

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Mar 2 2017, 01:44 PM)

Posted by: Steve91T Mar 2 2017, 09:12 PM

Well knowing how my dad drives, a set of rotors is going to last him the life of the car. So I'll give it a shot on the 1SC and see how much of a PITA it is. I still think it would be worth it to just get a couple of sets done at once that way if you need new rotors, they'll already be in the garage waiting for you.

Posted by: nape Mar 4 2017, 11:52 PM

QUOTE (trackbird @ Mar 2 2017, 01:42 PM)

You'll lose the "hubcentric" fit of the hub to center the wheel. The lug nuts are there to hold the wheel on, the hub is there to center the wheel and support the loads. I wouldn't have the hubs machined without a spacer to fit between the hub and the wheel (some aftermarket wheels used to include a "ring" to go over the hub that fit the oversized hole in the wheel).

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Mar 2 2017, 01:44 PM)

Well I'm thinking in a pinch you could just install a couple of washers to space the caliper and throw the Z06 rotors on.

You'll be amazed how flat and consistent washers are not. I believe you'll likely have a brake wobble/warped rotor feel. Shim stock might work, but washers generally aren't a good idea. I once adjusted a caliper on the teal wonder with washers. I also had a caliper come half way off on the freeway. So, do what you feel, but I'm going to recommend against it.

Posted by: Steve91T Mar 5 2017, 12:14 AM

^^ that's good to know.

Posted by: Steve91T Mar 7 2017, 02:47 AM

Ok some fun new parts that are about to be ordered.

(4) Toyo Proxes r888 315/30/18 ($1248 installed) ::ordered::
(4) C5 Z06 wheels 18x10.5 ($1300) ::ordered::
(2) CTSV 4 piston calipers ($300) ::ordered::
(2) CTSV hardware kit ($19) ::ordered::
(2) 2010 Camaro SS 14" rotors ($110)
(2) Flynbye brake lines ($85)
(2) Carbotech 1521 pads (street compound) ($170) ::ordered::
(1) High pressure power steering hose ($40) ::ordered::
(4) ARP studs and a bag o' nuts ::ordered::
(2) Blainfab 1/2" wheel spacers ($194) ::ordered::

Posted by: Steve91T Mar 7 2017, 06:50 PM

After lots of research, I'm going to get Toyo Proxes r888's in 315/30/18's.


Also I've got a call into Sam and also Alan to see about new lugs/ARP studs and 15mm spacers for the front.

Posted by: Mojave Mar 7 2017, 08:33 PM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Mar 7 2017, 12:50 PM)

Posted by: Steve91T Mar 7 2017, 09:17 PM

QUOTE (Mojave @ Mar 7 2017, 03:33 PM)

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Mar 7 2017, 12:50 PM)

After lots of research, I'm going to get Toyo Proxes r888's in 315/30/18's.


Also I've got a call into Sam and also Alan to see about new lugs/ARP studs and 15mm spacers for the front.

Why R888's? Those don't qualify as street tires for SCCA, and they aren't nearly as sticky as real R's. Why not Rival S? They also come in a 315/30R18.

Posted by: nape Mar 8 2017, 01:47 AM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Mar 7 2017, 03:17 PM)

Posted by: mr.beachcomber Mar 8 2017, 04:01 PM

Caveat: I personally have not used R888's on my Corvette. Everything that follows is an observation from instructing an auto-x student on R888's.

Unshaved from the factory, the R888's had decent grip on a dry auto-x course, but heated up dramatically after just one run. Had to cool them down between runs to achieve the best grip. The tires would start squalling when pushed to the limit, so you'll have ample warning before they break away. In the rain or on a wet course, they were great. No wheel spin under full power.

Shaving the tires supposedly cuts down on the heat buildup, but I can't image them not getting slick and/or unresponsive during a 20 minute HPDE session in the dry. Of course, YMMV, but I'd be weary of using unshaved R888's for track sessions.

Good Luck!

Posted by: Steve91T Mar 8 2017, 04:09 PM

QUOTE (nape @ Mar 7 2017, 08:47 PM)

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Mar 7 2017, 03:17 PM)

I've been doing a lot of reading and the people who use the 888's on the street actually say they are a decent street tire.

So I figured we'd give them a shot.

I liked them as a rain tire. Never could quite figure out what made them "suck" in the dry compared to RA1s. Not sure if they didn't like heat or slip angle, but they would give up a lot on the front. When they were a NASA spec tire, I would run RA1s on the front and R888s on the back until we used up the R888s.

My dad and I used to jokingly call them snow tires. Fine when it's cold, but they sucked when it got warm. Haha.

USA only got the medium compound. They weren't spec long enough for me to try out my plan of ordering the soft compound from the UK.

Posted by: Mojave Mar 8 2017, 09:18 PM

Are you running 1/2" spacers all around with the C5Z rear wheels?

Posted by: JimMueller Mar 8 2017, 09:25 PM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Mar 6 2017, 09:47 PM)

Posted by: Steve91T Mar 8 2017, 11:16 PM

House of wheels, four rear C5 Z06 wheels are $1300 shipped. They are brand new, OEM wheels in the argent finish. And they'll be here in a couple of a days.

I forgot to ask about center caps.

Rotors are autozone duralast 2010 SS Camaro rotors (need machining)

The price was the total for two spacers, ARP studs and new lug nuts for all 4 corners.

From the reading I've read doing, the offset is 54 (I think). That should be good for the rear, but the fronts need a spacer. Do you guys think otherwise? Please tell me know. The plan is to show up sometime next week with a truck full of parts. It'll be a fun father/son day of bolting on new parts.

Posted by: Mojave Mar 8 2017, 11:23 PM

http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?showtopic=13206

This is an entire thread of C5Z rears on 4th gens. One guy ended up at 1/2" front, 7/16" rear. Another ran no rear and trimmed the bumpstops heavily.

Posted by: landstuhltaylor Mar 8 2017, 11:59 PM

Sounds like your dad should have bought a Miata

Posted by: Steve91T Mar 9 2017, 05:03 PM

3/8" rear spaced ordered from Alan.

Thanks Chad. I had missed that. I'll be honest, my head was spinning reading all about what offsets work.

Posted by: Steve91T Mar 9 2017, 05:05 PM

QUOTE (landstuhltaylor @ Mar 8 2017, 06:59 PM)

Posted by: Mojave Mar 9 2017, 06:15 PM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Mar 9 2017, 11:03 AM)

Posted by: Steve91T Mar 9 2017, 07:10 PM

QUOTE (Mojave @ Mar 9 2017, 01:15 PM)

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Mar 9 2017, 11:03 AM)

3/8" rear spaced ordered from Alan.

Thanks Chad. I had missed that. I'll be honest, my head was spinning reading all about what offsets work.

Post up with how those fit with the 1/2 and 3/8 spacers. I'm planning to do the same setup.

Posted by: trackbird Mar 9 2017, 07:58 PM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Mar 8 2017, 06:16 PM)

Posted by: Eugenio_SS Mar 9 2017, 10:06 PM

QUOTE (Steve91T @ Mar 6 2017, 09:47 PM)