Some of you may be familiar with this article, but it appears that it is best to switch gasoline brands at certain intervals to minimize deposit buildups.

The author says he works for the largest gas retailer in the world, has 28 patents, and his specialty is gasoline additives. He has invented some for his employer.

http://vettenet.org/octane.html

Very good reading!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/thumbup.gif)

humorous at best (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif)
My twenty five yeas of brand loyalty is saying this is bunk.

Interesting! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) I always run injector cleaner about every 5k in the Z28.....wasting money? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) I wonder if the valve cleaner he was referring to was Techron?

I would not be quick to dismiss a Ph. D’d organic chemist with Mr. Johnson’s credentials who has worked for Exxon/Mobil for around 2 decades, whose specialty is gasoline additives. He has done objective lab and field testing of all additives. One of my professors had his earlier career working for Exxon, and they constantly tested all of their competitors products (the best ones). His specialty was lubricants, and he admitted that they were never able to match the leaders in the field. Once they acquired Mobil, their quest was over.

If you paid attention to his lists of possible fuels to switch between, the only gas additive that was common to both lists was Techron (used in both Chevron and Texaco fuels in North America). I have done NO controlled, scientific testing of detergent additives, but BMW and Porsche have both recommended Techron by name in their owners manuals in the past. Since additive packages have progressed so far, I am not aware of any manufacturers that currently recommend supplemental additives.

If I had to use only one brand of gas, it would probably be Chevron. But I see no reason to ignore Mr. Johnson’s advice to switch between Chevron/Texaco and another company’s additive to most thoroughly remove ALL types of buildup.

Easy there guy, Not here to get in an Arguement or to be condescending, Just stating what I know.
Chevron an Texaco not an option over here , the best it gets is ESSO, Shell ,or Aral.
But after twenty years of tearing apart Military gasoline engines both mobile and fix station , I never seen no real deposits that amounted to anything or that would cause anyone to get alarmed about. We did get less carbon build up on the tops of pistons when we switched from leaded to unleaded and then from carburaters to fuel injection.
As long as people purchase good quality fresh gas from a credible source, then there is not a problem to keeping fuel systems clean.

On a side note, I do have both BMW and Porsche owner manuals, I see nothing in there about Techron II, so this must be a North American thing.

I must be missing something. How does switching additives decrease build up? If you use additive A for 5000 miles then switch to additive B, does additive A deposits decrease or does additive B now just build up on top of additive A? I don't see how this is going to decrease any deposits. I would think sticking with the additive with the least build up would result in the least deposits. If one additive was able to remove the other additive's deposits then I would understand the benefit of switching brands of gasoline. I do not think he presented any data to support his conclusion.

If you read his entire article, he said exactly that. Every additive package will create its own deposit; they all have some dry weight. Package A obviously cannot remove its own deposits, or it would not leave deposits. He is claiming that they observed a different mix of chemicals (package B or C) that was effective in removing basic gasoline deposits, AND package A’s deposits. The problem with always using package B or C is that they will leave their own unique deposits.

He probably cannot provide the results his department discovered for his employer, they would be proprietary.

I don’t think he mentioned it, but the deposits left by the additive package will usually build up only in the combustion chamber, not on the valves or in the fuel injectors. Chevron has published some tech articles explaining the solvent buildup problem.

Yet he manages to post his name and email address. That's enough to ID who he works for-weird. An employer wouldn't be too happy with what he posted on the internet. I just find it very odd.



Weird. Everything I've heard is that there is no difference in cleaners contained in premium vs regular fuel.

I reread the article. What he says sounds plausible, but I still don't see any data. It would make just as much sense for the gasoline industry to just mix additives in a single gasoline such that one additive would remove the other additives' deposits. Before I change my normal gas purchasing behavior, I'd like to see more convincing information. You may be convinced because you know more about the subject and may know more about the gentleman who wrote the article.

Of course, noone cares about my gas purchasing behavior, but this is just a friendly discussion. I may even learn something. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

It's not weird at all [that he posted his name but not his employer]. It is probably safe to assume that he is witholding some proprietary information. However, the point of not revealing his employer is that he is (probably quite specifically) not authorized to speak for them. The fact that you can easily figure out who he works for is not the point.

I don't know the guy from Adam, and I'm not qualified to say much about gasoline additives. I do know he's telling the truth about sharing/swapping base stocks.

This post has been edited by sgarnett: Nov 14 2005, 12:21 AM

Only a few brands have met the automobile manufacturer’s “Top Tier” standard for detergent quantity/effectiveness. One reason for this is that to qualify for the Top Tier list, you must meet the standard for EVERY grade of gas you sell, everywhere in the country. BP/Amoco, for instance, only meets the Top Tier standard with their premium gas, Ultimate; not their 2 lower grades. Therefore, the Top Tier consortium excludes BP from the “approved” list. Back around the time the initial Top Tier list was released to the press, BP claimed in a press release or ad that their premium gas far exceeded the Top Tier standard. I believe they claimed that it included 5 times the minimum EPA detergent additive amount. By the way, BP does NOT make their own additive package, for the U.S. market at least. BP acknowledges that a “specialized chemical manufacturer” makes it for them. Not implying that is good or bad.

According to the Top Tier site, since the EPA established gasoline detergent standards in 1995, most refiners have reduced the amount they add to get closer to that minimum standard. Before the government standard, adding a detergent package was seen as a measure of quality and superior technology and it was a major part of their advertising campaigns. After the standard, everyone’s gas had detergents, and it was no longer viewed as worth advertising so heavily by the majors in the industry. Some, like BP, started once again to advertise it heavily to try to get customers who didn’t need high octane to upgrade to premium anyway just for the increased detergents. Even if at some point they decide to meet the Top Tier standard with their lower octane grades, they may still add more detergents to Ultimate if they find that promoting it like that increases premium gas sales enough. Premium grades have a higher profit margin for the refiner.

Back in the 80’s when detergent additives were first introduced and up through 1995, most of the refiners who included it only added it to their highest octane fuel. You (the general public) did not need to buy “Supreme” just because it had higher octane, but also because it was a truly “premium” product.

This post has been edited by lateapex: Nov 14 2005, 01:37 AM

Thanks for the explanation Bob! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/thumbup.gif)



I understand I'm just saying what he has already stated would get him in trouble with some employers "nowadays."

To add to Bob's post, I remember an old Tom and Ray (or other car advice column) back in the mid 90's that listed out the companies used the same amount of additives in all grades, and another list of the companies that used different amounts in different grades. I've tried searching but was never able to find the list, though it's been largely superceded by the Top Tier standard.

Is there a top tier equivalent for diesel?