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> Anyone converted fbody to "drive by wire"
Eugenio_SS
post Sep 1 2020, 02:31 PM
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Was wondering what is involved and what is required.
I want something stand alone.
I no longer have ECU/PCM anyways... I have BigStuff3 in the car.

Thanks,
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trackbird
post Sep 2 2020, 01:17 AM
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I really prefer the feel of a cable throttle. It keeps the computer from limiting throttle or torque limiting, etc. I've never felt like the throttle response was as "sharp", but that's likely partially due to the manufacturer tuning them to be "soft". I don't know if that means they can't be as responsive as a mechanical throttle, but it's an interesting thing to consider.
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Eugenio_SS
post Sep 2 2020, 12:12 PM
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i wanna be able to adjust the linearity of the throttle and actual area of opening so it's less abrupt
From there, I also have some other ideas i'd like to test and tune..
I did find this interesting article, but then got confusing... maybe I was just tired (have to re-read it)
https://www.lsenginediy.com/gm-gen-iii-ls-p...quipment-guide/

I want something that doesn't interface with nothing else... just the pedal and maybe 2 inputs, and be able to adjust the maps for the throttle.
I'm also assuming that I'll end up w/ faster response than by cable.
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trackbird
post Sep 5 2020, 01:53 AM
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QUOTE (Eugenio_SS @ Sep 2 2020, 08:12 AM) *
I want something that doesn't interface with nothing else... just the pedal and maybe 2 inputs, and be able to adjust the maps for the throttle.
I'm also assuming that I'll end up w/ faster response than by cable.


Volkswagon used "throttle anticipation" on their turbo cars that would open the throttle far more than requested when the car was coming off idle. It was a trick they used to spool the turbo. So you'd blip the throttle and start to let the clutch out and the car may have commanded "full throttle" for 1/2 second to get the turbo to start to spool so you'll have some power as you get the clutch out. It made them interesting to drive. They also had the throttle body on the pressure side of the intake tract, so half throttle felt about like full throttle. The boost seemed to push through the throttle body without issues once it was open half way or so. The odd thing about those cars is that when you went from half throttle to full throttle...basically nothing happened. The cars felt really fast at part throttle (because it was basically full throttle) and going to full throttle did almost nothing.

So, you can certainly do some throttle mapping tricks. I'm guessing you'll want to get the throttle pedal out of a stock GM application that's compatible with the controller you're using. I'd think the OEM pedal will likely last a lot longer than an aftermarket solution since they are asked to go 200,000 miles or more and they have to work every time.
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Eugenio_SS
post Sep 8 2020, 03:25 AM
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I donít mind changing the whole pedals
Been thinking of tilton pedals and can retrofit any sensors needed.
I just have some ideas up my sleeve
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Rentedmule
post Sep 8 2020, 07:09 PM
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QUOTE (trackbird @ Sep 5 2020, 01:53 AM) *
QUOTE (Eugenio_SS @ Sep 2 2020, 08:12 AM) *
I want something that doesn't interface with nothing else... just the pedal and maybe 2 inputs, and be able to adjust the maps for the throttle.
I'm also assuming that I'll end up w/ faster response than by cable.


Volkswagon used "throttle anticipation" on their turbo cars that would open the throttle far more than requested when the car was coming off idle. It was a trick they used to spool the turbo. So you'd blip the throttle and start to let the clutch out and the car may have commanded "full throttle" for 1/2 second to get the turbo to start to spool so you'll have some power as you get the clutch out. It made them interesting to drive. They also had the throttle body on the pressure side of the intake tract, so half throttle felt about like full throttle. The boost seemed to push through the throttle body without issues once it was open half way or so. The odd thing about those cars is that when you went from half throttle to full throttle...basically nothing happened. The cars felt really fast at part throttle (because it was basically full throttle) and going to full throttle did almost nothing.

So, you can certainly do some throttle mapping tricks. I'm guessing you'll want to get the throttle pedal out of a stock GM application that's compatible with the controller you're using. I'd think the OEM pedal will likely last a lot longer than an aftermarket solution since they are asked to go 200,000 miles or more and they have to work every time.


I have nothing of value to add here, just jumping in on the VW thing. That explains so much about the horrible throttle feel on my wife's TSI Jetta. I tried autocrossing it last month when the bird was down and it was impossible to control power delivery.
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Eugenio_SS
post Sep 8 2020, 09:47 PM
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I think I might just say "fuck it" to the idea and just looking at nice Tilton pedals and mod the firewall/foot area accordingly.
Might revisit this crazy idea in the spring.
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79T/A
post Sep 9 2020, 12:51 AM
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Does the big stuff 3 support drive by wire? Their website is terrible and has no info about the older systems. Most newer systems already have DBW integration and use GM throttle pedals to make life easy.

I feel like the Tilton pedal box is the most difficult way to go about the project. Lots of fabrication time to get one to work properly in a street car. You have to consider that you will lose power brakes, your brake light switch, and you will still have to figure out a way to adapt a drive by wire TAC to the Tilton pedals. Trust me, itís more work than you think it is. Iíve done the job more times than I care to remember, so be prepared to chase issues and custom engineer solutions for a while.

In my opinion, if you really want DBW and BS3 supports it, just use a GM throttle pedal. If the BS3 does not support use of the GM pedal, itís probably easier and cheaper to swap to a Holley, MS3, Haltech or one of the other newer ECUís that support those functions.

In all honesty, I would take a cable any day over DBW. It works and itís consistent. The F-Body was blessed with a long throttle travel and it allows good control. Only place DBW is an advantage is if you want to employ some serious traction control strategies.
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Eugenio_SS
post Sep 9 2020, 02:53 PM
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BigStuff3 doesn't seem to support drive by wire.
My understanding is that v4 does support it.
Hence I was thinking on something that would be independent of the PCM... a stand alone thing.. so that BigStuff3 only sees throttle position anyways, and doesn't control any input on the pedal.
The tilton seems more like a headache than anything else. Firewall, fabbing, etc.
As for the brakes lights, I don't have any, I ripped the whole dashboard apart and made my own dash w/ speedhut gauges and my own lights.
The more I think about this, the least attractive the idea becomes and there doesn't seem to have a simple solution at all (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
Even Motec doesn't have a standalone solution.
Why do they have to be integrated w/ the engine management ? what happened to KISS ?
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landstuhltaylor
post Sep 10 2020, 01:56 AM
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Why the fuck would you want to convert to DBW and then not take advantage of the engine management abilities it offers?
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trackbird
post Sep 10 2020, 03:16 PM
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QUOTE (landstuhltaylor @ Sep 9 2020, 09:56 PM) *
Why the fuck would you want to convert to DBW and then not take advantage of the engine management abilities it offers?


That's really the main benefit. Eugenio is putting a nasty twin turbo 427 in his car. So, the DBW setup would allow some traction control and other such features that might make the car less likely to "bite someone". That would be the only reason I'd consider moving to such a system. I prefer the feel of a real throttle cable, but that's just me.
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Eugenio_SS
post Sep 10 2020, 03:59 PM
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I just wanted to make the response table ideal for my liking.
On top of that I would've wanted to play to make perfect heel-n-toe as a side project, especially if I change My ppg-t56 from H to sequential.
I could care less about traction control and any granny's... that's what I don't want.
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SuperMacGuy
post Sep 10 2020, 04:03 PM
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+1 for throttle cables, unless you are **positive** you know what you need a digital unit to do differently.
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