1998 Formula Firebird LS1/T56 - ESP build Options

[FlatBlack]

Hello all,

Just picked up a 1998 Formula that I will be prepping for ESP class in SCCA Autocross. It's Blurple, but I don't care too much about my cars look (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I have some other things to take care of first, but wheels (17x9 or 10+) and suspension should come soon. I plan on Koni yellows and GC coilovers.

(IMG:http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh81/flatblack280/CYMERA_20140226_175210.jpg)

(IMG:http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh81/flatblack280/CYMERA_20140226_175226.jpg)

This post has been edited by FlatBlack: Feb 27 2014, 10:22 PM

[trackbird]

35mm front sway bar and a 21mm solid rear or 22mm hollow rear. The "standard" ESP setup on these cars is 550 or 600 in lb front springs, 150 in lb rear springs, a good quality panhard bar and an alignment with as much negative camber as you can get (typically about -1.1 degrees...give or take a bit), 5 to 5.5 degrees of castor and 0 toe to 1/32" of toe out.

Add 17x11" wheels on all 4 corners and install the sticky tires of your choice and a good clutch type differential and you should be off to a good start.

[Racer X]

Just picked up a 1998 Formula that I will be prepping for ESP class in SCCA Autocross.

Words you never imagined would come out of your beard hole.

I'm still f'n dying over here.....

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif)

[camarokid91]

I like Blurple and Trans ams so I approve. I just wish you where in my region I need more competition in ESP. New England is just me in ESP hanging out with Sam Krauss in his DSM.

[CrashTestDummy]

I like the color, too. You may be at a slight disadvantage with the t-tops, but it should still be fun.

[FlatBlack]

I like the color, too. You may be at a slight disadvantage with the t-tops, but it should still be fun.

Did they make a slicktop Firebird?

Hadn't thought about it. Are they heavier?

[CrashTestDummy]

Hmm, I don't know if they did make a slicktop 4th Gen Fbird or not, or the weight. The extra weight for the reinforcement and all that glass is high and forward, not where you want it in an autocross situation. Additionally, and gain, I'm not sure about 4th Gens, but 2nd and 3rd Gens with t-tops were a bit more 'flexible' than the hardtop versions. I don't think you can overcome that issue in ESP.

But still, it has an LS engine, which has a TON of potential, and you can have a lot of fun in it. I think the Firebird actually has a bit more room in the wheel houses, so getting even more tire under the car, as opposed to a Camaro, may be possible. I'd get under the car and look around, though. 18" wheels may afford you more space to tuck more wheel and tire under the car. 18" wheels fit a lot better, especially under the front end, than a 17" wheel on a 3rd Gen. I know they have different front suspensions, especially up front, so you'll have to do some research yourself.

Since Watts Links are legal (bolt-on only, IIRC), you may want to look into that to put on your mods list. They really help the 3rd Gens.

[FlatBlack]

Hmm, I don't know if they did make a slicktop 4th Gen Fbird or not, or the weight. The extra weight for the reinforcement and all that glass is high and forward, not where you want it in an autocross situation. Additionally, and gain, I'm not sure about 4th Gens, but 2nd and 3rd Gens with t-tops were a bit more 'flexible' than the hardtop versions. I don't think you can overcome that issue in ESP.

But still, it has an LS engine, which has a TON of potential, and you can have a lot of fun in it. I think the Firebird actually has a bit more room in the wheel houses, so getting even more tire under the car, as opposed to a Camaro, may be possible. I'd get under the car and look around, though. 18" wheels may afford you more space to tuck more wheel and tire under the car. 18" wheels fit a lot better, especially under the front end, than a 17" wheel on a 3rd Gen. I know they have different front suspensions, especially up front, so you'll have to do some research yourself.

Since Watts Links are legal (bolt-on only, IIRC), you may want to look into that to put on your mods list. They really help the 3rd Gens.

Korry (Racer X) has a Watts link, and he likes it alot. I'd planned on it since they are reasonably priced, but I'm worried about all the clearance issues with the exhaust and swaybar. Probably won't do it for a while anyways, Korry has an adjustable panhard bar for me.

[Racer X]

I like Blurple and Trans ams so I approve. I just wish you where in my region I need more competition in ESP. New England is just me in ESP hanging out with Sam Krauss in his DSM.

The wife and I are working on moving back to the northeast. NE PA may be a bit too far from you though. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Hmm, I don't know if they did make a slicktop 4th Gen Fbird or not, or the weight.

They did but were almost impossible to find on a lot. I really only remember seeing one. An '01 Formula Firehawk of all things. Usually you had to order a hardtop yourself to get it. That's what I did.

The extra weight for the reinforcement and all that glass is high and forward, not where you want it in an autocross situation. Additionally, and gain, I'm not sure about 4th Gens, but 2nd and 3rd Gens with t-tops were a bit more 'flexible' than the hardtop versions. I don't think you can overcome that issue in ESP.

Weight difference is negligible in a 4th gen application. No chassis difference between the two. Pull down the headliner in a 4th gen sometime. The T top option was baked in.

Even if the glass tops did weigh more than a hardtop, how often do you really see anyone run with the tops in?

If the car was somehow more flexible as a T top, SFCs are legal in ESP

I think the Firebird actually has a bit more room in the wheel houses, so getting even more tire under the car, as opposed to a Camaro, may be possible. I'd get under the car and look around, though. 18" wheels may afford you more space to tuck more wheel and tire under the car. 18" wheels fit a lot better, especially under the front end, than a 17" wheel on a 3rd Gen. I know they have different front suspensions, especially up front, so you'll have to do some research yourself.

Maybe somewhat but 17x11s fit Camaros just fine. I've even seen 17x12s.

17 inch tires a bit cheaper than 18s.

Since Watts Links are legal (bolt-on only, IIRC), you may want to look into that to put on your mods list. They really help the 3rd Gens.

A Watts will make the car better no doubt, but IMO it really doesn't have to be high up on the list if on a budget. The cars were (and still are) plenty fast with a good ol' cheap panhard rod.

This post has been edited by Racer X: Mar 1 2014, 01:19 AM

[FlatBlack]

I can't post in the Classifieds.

Anyone have a 17x9.5 C4 Sawblade spare?

I bought a set of stock C4 wheels (17x8.5F and 17x9.5R) and then two 17x9.5 rears for $100. One of the 17x9.5s has a bend in the rim, and the wheel repair place wants $100 to properly fix the bend. Figured I'd just try to find a spare or wait around until someone has another set of C4 rear wheels for cheap.

Tax return came in, and I sold some 240SX parts. Should be placing an order for Konis and Strano springs soon (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[trackbird]

I can't post in the Classifieds.

Anyone have a 17x9.5 C4 Sawblade spare?

I bought a set of stock C4 wheels (17x8.5F and 17x9.5R) and then two 17x9.5 rears for $100. One of the 17x9.5s has a bend in the rim, and the wheel repair place wants $100 to properly fix the bend. Figured I'd just try to find a spare or wait around until someone has another set of C4 rear wheels for cheap.

Tax return came in, and I sold some 240SX parts. Should be placing an order for Konis and Strano springs soon (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I'm currently "sitting on" 4 sets of sawblades. 3 sets of them are painted (factory silver paint) and 1 set is the "machined" finish (I didn't realize a machined finish existed). I'm not sure they are worth enough to sell though. I have a set that was used for autocross use (still have some 2007 vintage race rubber on them). They are brake dusted and marked RF/LF/RR/LR on the outsides. That's likely the set I'd sell if I sold any.

You need one wheel or two? I'm afraid shipping would run more than I could actually get out of the wheels.

[FlatBlack]

I'm currently "sitting on" 4 sets of sawblades. 3 sets of them are painted (factory silver paint) and 1 set is the "machined" finish (I didn't realize a machined finish existed). I'm not sure they are worth enough to sell though. I have a set that was used for autocross use (still have some 2007 vintage race rubber on them). They are brake dusted and marked RF/LF/RR/LR on the outsides. That's likely the set I'd sell if I sold any.

You need one wheel or two? I'm afraid shipping would run more than I could actually get out of the wheels.

Just one, that would be awesome if you would sell it!

I have the machined faces, but I intend to paint them

I'm in Austin, TX

This post has been edited by FlatBlack: Mar 12 2014, 12:43 AM

[Racer X]

Anyone have a 17x9.5 C4 Sawblade spare?

Hmmm.... could've sworn someobdy just very recently hooked you up with a full set of 9.5 sawblades.

*shrug* Nah..... must be getting old. Surely you wouldn't be buying yet ANOTHER set this soon..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

This post has been edited by Racer X: Mar 12 2014, 12:46 AM

[FlatBlack]

Got my Koni Sports and Strano Springs on last night. I didn't listen to Korry and put the shocks on the lower perch. He'll find out here, so.. enjoy that.

The car really is a different car with proper shocks. I'm exited to get my front and rear bars and panhard bar on. After I raise the front up some, I'll work on the alignment.

(IMG:http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh81/flatblack280/CYMERA_20140317_183115.jpg)

(IMG:http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh81/flatblack280/CYMERA_20140317_233412.jpg)

*edit*

More parts arrived! These are solid, very happy with them. Thanks Alan! My end links should arrive today as well

(IMG:http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh81/flatblack280/CYMERA_20140318_113431.jpg)

This post has been edited by FlatBlack: Mar 18 2014, 04:39 PM

[Racer X]

put the shocks on the lower perch.

There is SO much I could type here but I'll just go with....

Why?

This post has been edited by Racer X: Mar 20 2014, 02:11 AM

[FlatBlack]

There is SO much I could type here but I'll just go with....

Why?

I figured your version of "too low" and my version of "too low" were different. It wasn't.

Fixed it. Reinforced brackets and new end links are on, I should be picking up my 35mm solid bar on Sunday, and my Panhardrod/rear bar get it tonight.

(IMG:http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh81/flatblack280/CYMERA_20140319_233818.jpg)

[FlatBlack]

Got the rear bar/end links and panhard rod on last night.

I was wondering - can I just pop the ABS fuse out to get rid of it, or will that give me serious issues like putting the ECU into limp mode?

This post has been edited by FlatBlack: Mar 24 2014, 01:33 PM

[79T/A]

No issues with pulling the fuse. I do it when racing then pop it in for the street.

[CrashTestDummy]

Man, unless the car has a nasty 'ice mode', I'd think ABS would be a good thing to have. I've used it to great effect when running our 96 SS or 10 PPV on street tires. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif)

[FlatBlack]

I"ll probably run with it for my first event and see how it goes, then try it with the fuse pulled.

I've been able to engage it on street tires, it makes the pedal feel terrible.