Hello all,

Im looking for some guidance on what is necessary to prep a front or mid pack 4th gen f body for AIX. I am not new to f bodies, as i currently have a '95 z28 with a H/C/I 370lq9/t56 that is prepped for autocross/track days in the manner of koni yellows, strano springs, watts link, Brembo 4 piston caliper in front, all new bushing/balljoints, all the other usual suspension components. Ive decided a goal to get into AIX can be attainable because I am not too far off of the mid ohio track record according to their website. Mainly what i would like to know is:
What kind of power and weight does most of the competition have?

I have read the CMC/AI/AIX rules, but still have a few questions.

What is considered a NASA legal cage for AIX. Is a 6 or 8 pt sufficient?

I realize i would gut the interior, but I don't know if the fixed back corbeau seat I have is legal, I assume it has to be a metal type seat?

On the website regarding rules, you MAY use lexan for front windshield and rear window. By the cars ive seem I assume lexan is REQUIRED front and rear?

I see how CMC and AI are required to run toyo tires, is AIX open to any tire?

Thanks for any and all help.

This post has been edited by 370camaro95: Oct 7 2014, 04:58 PM

I was going to build a single turbo TT car, but Ive been getting the irrisistable urge to race door to door since I had to quit racing go karts when i was 11, 11 years ago lol, its been far too long. So I could sell my turbo kit and use the $3000 for other things... Or go out and buy a shifter kart haha...

This post has been edited by 370camaro95: Oct 7 2014, 04:59 PM

How far are you off the AIX track record?

If you're actually looking to race other cars and not just be "racing", AI or CMC would be a better choice. Also, FI road course cars are pretty... money intensive. If $3000 is a good chunk of money, AIX is probably not for you. Chris Griswold is running somewhere between 800-1000HP. Non-DOT slicks are now legal for AIX.

AI can still pretty money intensive depending on how competitive you want to be and how much work you do yourself.

CMC is cheaper to put the car together, but the consumables are pretty comparable (at least to a light AI car).

I have ran a 1:40.x on the club course in a full weight frc c5, h/c/i/e, koni yellows, zo6 front spring, strano bar. Tires were old used 275/315 hoosier r6s (would like to have ran 315/335). I would still like to make some changes to the setup...
AIX record is- Mid Ohio Club Course Paul Faessler 1:37.645

If I can run my 6.0l in AI then I would much rather do that, I just couldnt find a rule on power to weight ratio. I also realize the camaro would need a lot of changes as well and Im fine with that, it is currently all apart right now.

Not sure where you're getting that info, but here's the current AIX info:

Mid-Ohio (Pro Course) Chris Griswold Ford Mustang 1:28.114 08/12/12
Mid-Ohio (Club Course) Paul Faessler Ford Mustang 1:32.466 08/14/10

Both of those times were on DOT tires, not the current non-DOT rules (faster).

Here's the current AI times:
Mid-Ohio (Pro Course) Jason Lakomiac Ford Mustang 1:35.268 10/05/14
Mid-Ohio (Club Course) Jeff Wood Ford Boss 302 1:39.269 04/27/13

You can run your 6.0L in AI, but you'll likely have to run around 4000lbs. Current power/weight is 9lb/hp for non-ABS cars, 9.25lb/hp for ABS, and 9.5lb/hp or '05+ S197 ABS.

If you want to run the Camaro, you'd be money ahead to sell the 6.0L and go back to a 5.3 or 5.7L and reduce weight. Mid-O is one of the only places that I would take some extra weight and that's just to make it easier in traffic. Currently, I'm ~2800lbs and make 305RWHP.

Thanks for the help. The site i got the lap times from was http://www.nasaponycars.com/site/7100fa12b...cords.html#2898

Looks like the 6.0l would be a dumb choice for AI, and not radical enough for AIX... I have some thinking to do there.

What do you guys do for the cage in cmc or ai? And is lexan required for the windshield? What about the hatch?

Unfortunately, the NASA Pony Cars site is way out of date. About the only thing that ever gets changed is the rules.

Pretty much on the engine choice. It's not impossible to build for AIX, but I'd plan for almost 4 digits of HP. Not sure how radical your 6.0 is, but you could change the cam then restrictor plate it.

Cage would depend on AI or CMC. CMC is limited to a max of 8 attachment points, AI is unlimited. Lexan isn't required for either series and is actually illegal in CMC. That goes for any glass.

Thanks again for all your help and input. I assumed glass would be a safety issue but i wasnt sure how people replace the rear hatch glass, ill do some research.

I did find the rules regarding the seat, and cage... It says two door bars are required, so i assume one bar would go to the floor, the other to the firewall.
I cant think of any other door to door series i could race the car in thats potentially affordable like cmc/ai.

This post has been edited by 370camaro95: Oct 9 2014, 12:48 AM

There is a great thread on this message board about lexan rear hatches if you decide to go AI.

There are many different ways to do the cage. PLEASE don't just buy a drag race cage kit as most aren't legal. Make sure you do your due diligence before you plunk the money down.

370Camaro95
As the Midwest region CMC director I am going to have a bias towards CMC. But you need to ask yourself some realistic questions and be HONEST with yourself. Are you a guy who loves to tinker and constantly be figuring out the next thing that will give you a tenth or two? If this is you AI or AIX is probably for you. But be honest with yourself. DO you have the TIME to do that? Do you have the MONEY to do that? Do you have the SPACE to do that?
Are you the guy who loves F bodies or Mustangs and really loves the idea of racing but realistically does not have a lot of expendable income to build the car and campaign the car? Well maybe CMC is for you. Nape (TJ) is correct that his AI car is not much more expensive to maintain than a CMC car because his car is light....very light so he is easier on consumables. But your stereotypical AI Fbody will break $hit and more so with the AIX car. Honestly ask yourself can you afford to replace Tires brakes, trans or diff or clutch or whatever and also afford the monthly 300 to 400 entry fee and fuel etc and still be able to race? I see it way too often that guys are not honest with themselves and realize way too late that when the car breaks they are done for the season because they are so close to the edge financially..So when they break its.... Well thanks for playing ...see ya next year! I am not saying CMC is cheap but it is more economical than a lot of other classes. You can realistically build a pretty good car for 10 to 12 K. You can buy one cheaper. It is very easy to get to the limit of the rules in CMC without spending a ton of dough. With AI the rules are not quite defined and so is the limit of the rules is not quite defined so therefore the limit of the cost is not quite defined as well. With CMC once your get the car sorted and somewhat reliable, usually after your second season you just need to concentrate on race craft and having a great time at the track.
Everyone is going to try and sell the class they are racing. Such as I am doing here. But look at the fast cars in the class you are running and ask yourself, 1) Can I afford to build that car? 2) Can I afford to keep that car on the track? 3) Do I have the time to keep that car competitive? 4) Do I have the skills to keep that car on the track? 5) Do I have the talent to compete in that class? 6) Do you have a understanding wife, girlfriend, life partner, whatever? This is huge. 7) Do you want to race or do you just want to be the fastest car on the track or do you want to bring home a trophy every weekend? What is your motivation? I am not trying to be a jerk here, but, some people like to have the fastest car on track and pass a lot of out of class cars. That is OK. some people like to run in a class that is has no one in it so they can post on Facebook that they win every weekend. I am OK with that. Some people love to race and I mean serious competition, and that is the motivation. Figure out what are your resources. Figure out your motivation. The answers to these questions will direct you to the right class. Pick a class and get out there racing. The more honest you are with yourself UP FRONT. The more successful you will be.
This is was my fifteenth year racing wheel to wheel. I have been racing CMC since 2007 and raced AI from 2004-2007. I have seen a lot of guys come and go and more guys have had false starts never to be seen on the track......
Good luck.
Bob Denton
CMC #67
2000 Pontiac Firebird.

I feel like I could afford either class, i just need to make a personal decision if I want to turn my street car into a race car. Or i could pick up a real cheap lt1 car, which i feel would be the better choice. I already constantly mess with my cars to get them performing better and better, so no issue there. I want to run in a competitive class that rewards your hard work and talent with a good finish, but very close side by side racing would be the ultimate thrill, but the cars still need to have power. Like spec miata, its too slow.

How is the car count and competition in the midwest region CMC?

To add to the previous suggestions:
How much experience do you have "on track" ?
Have you been to NASA events to watch the racing and check out the race cars and talk to racers ?
Do you know how long it may take you to get your racing license ? It varies wildly depending on track experience, but you need to go through the HPDE progression of 1-4 with NASA , unless you have a race license from another sanctioning body.

I would suggest you don't make any changes or decisions on a race class until you are intimately familiar with the cars of each class, modifications needed, maintenance required to run a couple seasons, expenses, number of racers per class, and get to know the racers in the various classes.

Best of luck

Im aware of what it takes to get a license. Ive been participating in HPDEs for 3 years, autocross for about 5. I was going to get my competition license this year but didnt make it to the last event. Maintenance, car prep, expenses of car maintenance are no problem. i just needed to get a better understanding of what these cars actually are and how theyre setup. Before this thread i had no idea AIX cars were making as much power as they are.

CMC in the Midwest / Great Lakes is growing. At mid ohio last weekend we had 9 cars. We would have had 12 but some guys had previous commitments. We have the possibility of a couple more coming in the spring. We have been averaging about 7 cars throughout the season.
Bob

Like Bob, I've raced both AI and CMC. Currently racing CMC.
There is a little more work to get an Fbody competitive in AI, but it can and has been done. But it is more a function of money and build skills in AI then CMC.
My personal experience...Great racers in both classes. I had some great races in AI over the years. But I've had more close racing , much more often in CMC then in AI. Although, the cars and completion has increased lately in Midwest AI.
I made the switch because of the increasing cost and level of car modifications in AI. Along with the fact that there was/is more cars to race with in CMC, and the completion was closer. Like Bob indicated, AI is more about staying ahead of the car modification game, and CMC is less about the modifications and more about preparation and driving skills. But, there are some great racers in AI, and some guys, TJ (Nape) are able to be completive on a manageable budget. More parts break and wear out sooner in AI. Speed difference is only noticeable on certain tracks, and lap times are pretty close on some tracks.

To answer your question, racing in Midwest CMC over the past few years has been highly completive with some great very close racing and about 8-12 cars per event with a couple getting added each year.

Again, I suggest looking at the cars, dollars being spent, and racers in each class to decide where you want to be.
If you have specific questions about car prep / modifications for an Fbody in either class, I would be happy to elaborate.

This post has been edited by DAlgozine: Oct 9 2014, 05:50 PM

Thanks to you all, again, big help in getting a better idea of what it takes. One last question, have you ever not had fun? I can just imagine it being an absolute blast. Anyone have any videos they care to share?

Here are some videos, my youtube channel and a link to some vimeo videos.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCunTMFYZ-Hq61cavZzTCRLA

http://vimeo.com/93217771

http://vimeo.com/93105151

I think you should join us in CMC, but I am biased as well. Ditto what Bob said. There are times when things break again and again where it hasn't been any fun, but the camaraderie of the group makes it all worth it at the end of the day.

I can imagine, i already break enough as it is lol, but thats all part of the fun. Broken wheel bearings assemblies, driveshafts, ring and pinions, transmissions, engines...

Nice videos!

Join the CMC forum site for more info on car prep, videos and other info
http://www.camaromustangchallenge.com/forum/

If you might be interested in buying a built AI car instead of tearing into your street car, mine is for sale, asking $12K. In California though. My trailer might also be available for $5K. I don't have a For Sale ad posted yet, but it's been an AI car only since 2001. It's got the original LT1 and trans, both rebuilt professionally, and loads of other work on it.

Feel free to email me if you'd like more info.

Christine