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Posted by: 00 Trans Ram Apr 22 2009, 05:08 PM

I'm probably going to move and build a house in the next year or so. When I do, I'm going to build a standalone garage/shop. What would you guys and gals include? I know I've heard things like a balcony for parts, white floors for light, etc.

The size will probably be between 750 and 1000 square feet. I'm also not going to spend a gazillion dollars on it.

Suggestions?

Posted by: Beach Cruiser Apr 22 2009, 05:55 PM

If you can, make the ceiling high enough if you ever want to put in a lift you can. lots of workbench space, cabinets, ventalation, AC. Running water is also plus for washing your hands before you go into the new house! Air compressor with the hose reel in the ceiling is handy.

Posted by: 00 Trans Ram Apr 22 2009, 06:16 PM

Sorry - I should have been more clear.

I'm going to have a lift installed (probably 2 post, but am open to suggestions). That means special concrete for the floor, right?

Posted by: roostmeyer Apr 22 2009, 06:23 PM

Might as well plumb several drops for the air compressor around the shop. Also don't forget a 220V outlet for the compressor as well as for a welder. Might be out of your price range, but the infrared tube heaters are real nice at keeping you warm even with the doors open. Then again in New Orleans, you probably don't need a heater...

Posted by: Beach Cruiser Apr 22 2009, 06:34 PM

standard concrete should be good for 3000lbs per sq ft. You should reineforce it with wire or rebar, 4" is standard, if you go to 6" you won't have any issues.

Posted by: JustinID Apr 22 2009, 06:45 PM

Personally, I'd make sure the door is tall enough for an RV or enclosed trailer... but that's because of my hopes and dreams. A large workbench, plenty of builtins, plenty of windows for lighting during the day, full fiberglass insulation for the walls and ceiling, and wiring for the house phone so you can call for some pizza. Don't forget the beer fridge. Try to think of any machinery you may buy in the future (drill press, lathe, brake machine, etc) and plan your electrical outlets and floor space around those now.

If you're really adventurous, add a 2nd floor and throw in a cheap couch and TV so you can take a break/nap in comfort. Whatever you do, make sure it's big enough to start. Everything else is pretty easy to add later on. Adding more space is hard and expensive.

Posted by: mitchntx Apr 22 2009, 07:27 PM

Not possible ...

The big and tall door is a damned good suggestion. I miss being able to load my car in the dry.

Add 50 amps of service to whatever you think "will do".

Windows are an easy place for thieves to enter.

Lofts are a great place to store stuff that you will never, ever use again ... like trash.

Being in Louisiana, think about the setting sun and don't have your biggest door opening to the west.

Floor drains are useless.

More to come ...

Posted by: 00 Trans Ram Apr 22 2009, 08:17 PM

Dang - these are some good ideas.

Don't need a heater. I don't use them in the house, much less the garage. A pair of overalls pretty much takes care of it.

Good idea on the door. Any reason why a rollup door would not be best?

I'm also probably going to include a covered carport on the back/side for my tow rig.

About A/C - it gets pretty darn hot here. Is there anything better than some run-of-the-mill residential thing? It'll be used much less frequently than a residential unit, and I only care about keeping the bottom 8' cool (if it's hot in the loft, I don't care).

Lighting - any suggestions other than standard flourescent?

Also, I can't forget about internet access and cable TV. I plan on having a computer for diagnostics and general reference. And the TV will only play racing videos and TV shows.

Posted by: 00 Trans Ram Apr 22 2009, 09:04 PM

I just found another thread on here that was almost identical to mine (should've searched first!). As my pennance for breaking this first law of forums, I've compiled all those suggestions (and these) into a single list. Please feel free to add to it if you think of something:


• 2-post lift (requires reinforced concrete)
• Workbenches
• Cabinets
• A/C
• Roof fans or ventilation
• Sink with running water (check local tax assessments to see if this makes it a “dwelling” and subject to higher taxes)
• Air compressor with multiple hose reels in the ceiling
• Air compressor with several wall outlets
• 220v for compressor and/or welder
• Tall enough door for an enclosed trailer
• Windows for lighting during the day
• Full insulation in the walls and ceiling
• Phone outlets
• Internet and cable
• Computer (diagnostics and general reference)
• TV (for watching racing)
• Open floor space for future tools and projects
• Fridge for drinks
• Add 50 amps to my current requirements for the future
• Alarm system
• Face the big door away from the setting sun
• Use some type of wood paneling (plywood, OSB) on the inside walls (easier to replace and more durable than drywall)
• 2x6s for framing (2x4s are limited to about 12’; plus allows for more insulation)
• Include empty conduits when running wires, in case you want to run something in the future
• White epoxy on the floors (white reflects light and makes the garage brighter)
• Central vacuum system
• Floor level lighting (for working under the car)

Posted by: JustinID Apr 22 2009, 09:59 PM

That's a really nice list. Hopefully I remember it's here whenever I finally get to build my workshop.

One more I thought of with the windows is having some sort of blinds so you can cut down on the sunlight when it's already just too darn hot. Also, if you agree about windows being too much of a security risk, you could consider doing skylights instead. Probably not worth the cost though.

Depending on how you have your property laid out, including parking areas, it could be worth having another door opposite of the main one for pulling through. I think that usually makes more sense on an attached garage with limited space on the side of the house, but could be worth keeping in mind. It could also allow you to pull a trailer into the structure instead of having to back it in... but backing a trailer into a tight space is just a good character builder.

Posted by: codename Bil Doe Apr 22 2009, 10:04 PM

And, don't forget a rear door to make the garage drive-thru.

Posted by: codename Bil Doe Apr 22 2009, 10:05 PM

And a service road that circles the perimeter of the garage. Makes it easy to turn trailers around.

Posted by: TSHACK Apr 22 2009, 10:21 PM

Don't for get the second building for all the house Item that the bozz wants to keep but not in the house.
They end up in the middle of the shop floor. when your not looking

Posted by: TSHACK Apr 22 2009, 10:25 PM

Hay I thought this was a clean site & Bil's posting porn pics.
OOOh thats sweet bil doe

Posted by: cccbock Apr 22 2009, 10:53 PM

There a few items here I would like place EMPHASIS on.

You don't need to pour the entire floor to 6 inch for the lift. Most will work with 4 inch. I would figure out where the lift will be located and thicken the pad in that location to 6 inch and add rebar. Will save dough on the concrete which is expensive. Two post lifts are the most flexible and typically cheaper to purchase and install. Get the higher rated one so you can put SUV's, vans, or big tow vehicles up on it.

Regardless of what the vendors say will fit, you will need a 12 foot minimum ceiling. Higher is better. That allows you to put a vehicle 6 feet plus in the air and clear the ceiling and the lift safety bar and so you can walk around under the car standing up (not crouching).

Being in Lousiana (Im in Florida, same weather) consider a small "office" area which can be air conditioned/heated. You will want to work on your car during the winter and summer and being able to get some relief from the hot (or cold) is great. The "roof" of the office can be the loft storage area.

Once you have a lift, you will need some lift specialty tools. In particular a roll around oil reservoir for oil changes and one or two lift stands (kinda like a real tall screw jack). These make excellent christmas gifts to add to your holiday list so that when your garage is built, you will already have the important starter kit.

Build the largest possible space you can. You will grow into it...take my word for it. My shop is 1700 square feet and you cant see the floor anywhere after 7 years of accumulation.

NEVER invite friends over to your garage. Once they see the lift, you will have a steady stream of oil change friends showing up on Saturday's.

bock

Posted by: cccbock Apr 22 2009, 11:00 PM

don't forget power outlets.

I like the 4 gang outlets spaced out where you would normally put the two gang.

bock

Posted by: tonycook Apr 23 2009, 01:36 AM

Suppose you put in a refrigerator for beer? What usually follows fairly soon? (Sooner as you get older)
Small bathroom would be useful.

Posted by: 00 Trans Ram Apr 23 2009, 02:33 AM

Bathroom is a good idea. That is, unless it makes the taxes higher.

Posted by: Happy_Dan Apr 26 2009, 02:04 PM

I'll tell you what I ran into.
My ceiling is 12' 4". It was just high enough for my lift with the top post just making it on the higher setting.

Make sure the expansion joints are not where the posts are going to go. That was a big problem for me.

I had 4" 4000lb poured and it was barely 4" so I agree with the poster that said do 6" where the posts are going to go.

I have heat and no AC and I have found that it is the best thing I did.

I also made sure it was wide enough (28') so that I could put benches against the back wall.

Finally, I went overboard on running electrical because I knew it would come on handy. I have 220 to each bay in the ceiling for lifts, I have 220 30A homeruns every few feet apart. I have quad 110's. I put in a 200AMP service just for the garage so I don't have to worry about welders, compressors etc.

Full attic for parts with a full floor. That is where the storage is.
Lots of natural light windows and dormers where possible. Just can't beat the natural light.

Congratulations! A garage is very exciting. I think folks here should post pictures of theirs. That can give you ideas too.

Posted by: CMC#5 Apr 29 2009, 04:31 PM

Building a garage is like building a race car...its pretty hard to stop spending money!

Things I learned doing mine:

Make sure you know what the floor treatment will be before you pour. Many builders will do a machine troweled finish by default, which means a lot of added work later if you want to epoxy or even stain and seal.

Decide if you want to operate 220V equipment concurrently. I have separate circuits for lift, welder, compressor, RV so all can run at once.

Outlets are much handier at shoulder level than at floor level. I ran two circuits along the wall at shoulder height with outlets every four feet. Run a strip down the centerline of the roof too for drop cords.

Run two coax and internet lines from the main house. Someone will put a screw or nail through the spare and this keeps you from having to dig it out of the wall. Labor is the expensive part. 100' of wire is practically free. I did this and sure enough one line was cut somewhere, so I was ok. (time and material work...if you contract at lump sum disregard this)

A toilet and a sink are worth every penny. Make a little stall sized room for the toilet. Get a big industrial sized sink outside that area.

You can build shelves out of 2x4s cheaper than any alternative.

OSB was the cheapest wall liner I could find, so I went with it. I sprayed the whole thing white and it took a pile of primer and paint (about 2/3s coverage listed on the tub is what I got) Add up the cost 'cause it might be cheaper to go with one of the various sheets of wall...stuff that you can buy that don't require paint.

Most of the lifts I've seen only require 4" of 3,000psi concrete. don't stress on that part. Besides, adding a bigger baseplate to the lift is easy and much more flexible than determining exactly where the lift should go so you can put 6" of concrete right there.

Spend the money to get the things that are "built in" now. You can defer a lift for years. You cant defer the size of the building.

Posted by: Blainefab Apr 29 2009, 06:17 PM

Here's a few things that make my shop functional:

Shelves for frequently used items - I like all my stuff visible, not hidden in cabinets. It all gets dusty, but I can usually find stuff fast.

Shelves mounted very sturdily - some of those red bins weigh 30#. There are many more now.

Outlets located just under the shelves - above the clutter of the workbenches. If I was to build a shop I'd put a double duplex every 32" in this area. Note how the power strip is tipped so outlets are pointing down - the dust in my shop has a high metal content, and is conductive. Blow out the outlets once in a while, before they make sparks.

Lighting - under lower shelf is now a dual 4' T8. Overhead is 3 continuous rows of dual 4' T8 fixtures = 34 bulbs serving approx 950sf. It's just about right. Higher ceiling would need more.

This area has a loft overhead for storage, ceiling is under 8' with beams lower than that. A full 8' clear all over would be better. If you can recess the sprinker heads, do it. When I'm handling lengths of steel I'm constantly reminding myself of the sprinklers - really don't want to knock one of the heads off.

Loft has 6' clear to bottoms of main beams, ceiling is about 16'. 18' would be better.

Cushioned runner on floor - saves wear on feet

Hand me down kitchen oven is useful for preheating stuff, curing paint, etc. Pizza tastes funny, tho.

Utility sink, parts washer, cabinet for lubes/paints/resins. The yellow next to the white cabinet is a fire cabinet, mostly for waste fluids, and solvents.

Overhead exhaust vent to roof for clearing fumes.

Posted by: 00 Trans Ram Apr 30 2009, 04:26 PM

This has to be the most awesome thread ever!

OK, I probably think that because I'm envisioning most of it in MY garage.

I think I might go with a metal building. Got some friends in the construction business. For the size of building I'm talking about, they laugh that they can build it with scraps from a large job. Just gotta pay for labor and equipment fees (cranes, etc.). They recommended a spray-on foam-type insulation, with a plastic sheeting for the interior walls. Doesn't need to be painted, is glossy (reflects light), and is almost indestructable. And, best of all, is cheaper than dirt.

Posted by: CMC#5 Apr 30 2009, 05:54 PM

Sounds like a good advantage to have. Interestingly enough, in this month's Grass Roots Motorsports is an article about setting up a garage.

Posted by: mitchntx Apr 30 2009, 06:00 PM

Over time, the spray on stuff will begin to lose adhesion and fall.

I chose batting style insulation and put up interior metal walls

Posted by: 00 Trans Ram Apr 30 2009, 08:09 PM

Hmmm - good to know. I wonder if old pine needles and dead squirrells make good insulation?

Posted by: JustinID Apr 30 2009, 08:27 PM

So what kind of interior walls would you have with this setup? What are you going to mount everything onto?

Posted by: codename Bil Doe Apr 30 2009, 08:48 PM

1. Don't know if it was mentioned, but definitely a coated floor for easy cleaning.

2. Paint booth.

3. Some of these (tell your wife it's for authenticity):

Posted by: mitchntx Apr 30 2009, 10:06 PM

For a while, maybe.