When You Think You Want To Post To Corner-cavers Options

[94bird]

Damn Randy, you always have a computer on and you still can't catch me? I don't even have internet access at work and I've been on the forums only every other day or so recently. So much potential, so little action . . . (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

I have to admit, as I've posted before, my desire to become a suspension guru has lessened over the past few years. I've realized that engines are my passion and there is so much to learn about them that I've resigned myself to learn from others for my suspension help. I understand the basics, but I'm not near Sean's or Jon's level and don't plan to be. That pretty much makes me a browser at cc.com in the Suspension areas. That's OK. When I have time I go there, especially after AI races, since the results are generally posted there first.

Coolest news I got today was our new engine we're doing at work dynoed within 2 HP of the historic 426 Hemi with both using the old 60's musclecar rating system (no accessories, open headers, no induction, cold intake temp). We're quite a few cubic inches short of them too. That's where my passion is. Give me exhaust roar any day over roll center calculations. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/burnout.gif)

Hey Kevin, where's a cool emoticon of an engine blowing flames out open headers?

[Judd]

4. And this is just me here...if answering the same shit over and over gets to you so much.....don't bother! (I am sure there are guys cursing my name now, but WTF?) I myself skip over the "poly on poly" shit all the time.....but I don't go into the thread and call the newbie an ASSCLOWN and to GET A f------ LIFE, or he will be banned either! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/dunno.gif) I was raised to be curteous to others......if you don't got nothin' nice to say....don't say it! With the internet....people lose that concept all the time...WORST PART OF THE DAMN THING IMHO...would they act that way to a person's face????? I don't think so.....
5. Crybabies = weak? Probably, but what is JUST AS WEAK are people who don't know how to socialize in a constructive manner.

...don't know if you had a bad day at work or something today.....maybe the slide rule broke or something.....but man, you need to relax and understand the purpose of this site, and others for that matter........

Oh, and it was a REAL high note you ended on there.....might want to consider how that would play talking FACE TO FACE with someone.....

:leaving: QUOTE]

Pretty much sums up my thoughts on CC. com.. As you said, if a person makes a stupid post, a post in the wrong area, miss-spells a word { big whoop-de-do} or mistakenly posts something that has already been discussed at length,,,,, there are better ways to deal with it.

IGNOREING them is one way of letting them know that they could use the search feature. I think that most folks do deserve at least a modicum of respect. I do believe that most folks do deserve a couple of chances before a "smack-down" from twenty people ranting and raveing cursing for all they are worth. If they were so worried about "shitting up the site" as they say they are, they would just ignore the post or delete it.

On the other hand, if the poster is just trying to start trouble {which happens alot on that site because of the way people get treated}, then by all means,,,,, bust their chops and bust them well.

BTW, the site {by and large} is a bit hypocritical. When one of the "Big-wigs of the Grand Poo-bas" makes a small {or sometime no so small} mistake {that would get a Newbie Retard cussed out to no end},,,, they are sometimes "let off the hook".

Saying all that.
CC.com is a good tech. site though {hopefully, this site will end up being their equal in the future}, when they aren't busting someones arse for accidentally miss-spelling a word or posting some sort of previously posted information. It is their site and they can run it the way they want. I just keep my mouth shut and and read the stuff I need.

[rmackintosh]

....put the book down and get it IN PRODUCTION damnit....I am gaining on you!

Well, I too, do have a life, you know! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Anyway, I'll be putting together my birthday present tonight...a welder! Depending upon how long it takes me to remember how to weld, I should have the PHB brackets on shortly. I'll be testing them out the 23rd. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

ahhhhhhh....NOW YOU'RE TALKIN'......a WELDER.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif)

...unfortunately...you are looking at ANOTHER area where I tend to be lazy... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ...my fab buddy welds better and nicer than most any I have seen....AND I HAVE LOOKED AT A BOATLOAD of cages, suspensions, etc....that and I spent much of the 80's.....when I was a pup.....helping him build Trans-Am and GT-1 type cars "after school"... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

welding is another...."wish I knew how to do it better" thingy, but this guy welds like an artist, so I figure....what the hell.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Should be a fun toy though....learn GOOD before those brackets....I have heard from Jason and others that STRONG welds are critical in that system....

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[KeithO]

Coolest news I got today was our new engine we're doing at work dynoed within 2 HP of the historic 426 Hemi with both using the old 60's musclecar rating system (no accessories, open headers, no induction, cold intake temp). We're quite a few cubic inches short of them too. That's where my passion is. Give me exhaust roar any day over roll center calculations. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/burnout.gif)

When am I going to see the new Charger announced? Since NASCAR just approved it for the Intrepid's replacement, I have to believe that the *real* street car can't be far behind... Could this be the cradle for this new, mystery engine?

[mitchntx]

In racing, the age old addage is that "there is always someone faster".

Taking that to the next level and applying it to CC.com ...

"Someone will always have more attitude".

Jon's points concerning repetitive answering of easily searched questions is a valid one. It does get a little frustrating and old. And people, by and large, want to be spoon fed. Call it lazy ... I call expedited learning. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Where I think CC.com goes a little beyond just being a bunch of frustrated, very intelligent racers is when someone gets hammered for simple typos.

All of a sudden a huge population has the time and energy to post up flame and rhetoric ... but not add content to post. If the typos were so bad it made it unreadable, then maybe ...

I think this place is quickly becoming the best of both worlds. It is beginning to amass the tech data for search and the techies for the answers. And it also has a laid back feel to it.

It's gonna be up to us, the users (not admin or mod staff) to keep the focus. You can call some out for NOT using the search tool ... and it can be done in such a way that it won't start a flamefest, resulting in bannishment.

Flaming or ranting on someone because they failed is just a little too much like Jr. High.

JMHO

[ESPCamaro]

[quote=Jon A,Jul 29 2004, 12:42 PM] [quote=rmackintosh,Jul 29 2004, 10:50 AM] ...must be a bunch of NON-RACERS then......or some REAL FAKE WANNA BE racers..... [/quote]
You should really check the board out before saying that, Randy. You couldn't be farther off. Yes, racers do what they can to help other racers and I know of no other place on the net where this happens more.

The attitude over there comes from racers not wanting to waste their time answering the same damn questions over and over again asked by street poseurs who want to know which billet shift knob will make their car, "Handle good on the offramps without messing up their 1/4 mile time." From not wanting the tech to be deluted with LS1.com/Corral-type "just because he says 2+2=5 doesn't mean you should be mean to him, everybody is entitled to their own opinion..." type crap. [/quote]
ABSOLUTELY.

Without question the racers help the other racers.

And I completely agree that the same old tech questions are pretty boring. EVEN IF It is a question about something rarely discussed.

I have seen it on this board already. There will be a topic in the S/C forum, with a bunch of replies, and then someone will ask the same question. Or VERY similar.

Also, I agree with DG about the kind of tech we are talking about, that happens at CC.com.
I think he pulls made up/false numbers out of his butt, HOWEVER, if you are not up to speed with everyone else, start busting your butt, and get up to speed.

Here is a perfect example. I have discussed with another board mod about the level in which we are willing to help others who we compete with.

I've been working on something that is generally pretty damn simple. BUT, I have put HOUR UPON HOUR of research into it. Maybe it's just me but in this instance, for others to catch up, they need to bust butt, not have the info given away by me.

(I MAY OR MAY NOT GET TO THE FACT THAT I'M NOT THE JERK THIS MAY MAKE ME SEEM LIKE TO SOME)

Look at it this way. Say you have a direct work partner. And your busting butt all day, while joe shmoe bs's and generally slacks off all day. Most people sure as hell wouldn't want to let that guy take credit for what we accomplished in that day.

HOWEVER, I think that with some effort (see even they need to put forth more effort) WE here at FRRAX.com can avoid the exact same things that they want to avoid, WITHOUT being rude jerks.

With easily searchable database as well as a 'required reading section' that answers most questions before even posting.

About the only thing I would be all for, that portrays a 'we are to good for you attitude' here on FRRAX, is deleting what is the best PHR, LCA's, SFC's etc.


I STILL THINK IT WOULD BE GOOD TO SEE MORE TECHNICAL QUESTIONS HERE ON FRRAX. I don't see the NEED to go to CC.com. We can simply buckle down as a team, and find out what we need to.

My guess is that my thread about suspension modeling will eventually have alot of good info in it. If anyone showed interest. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

In the meantime maybe I'll do a simple text write up about simple terms that can be looked up. Maybe a sticky for now, and eventually in the tech section archive that Kevin spoke of.


The tech is good at CC.com. The attitude is PISS POOR. There is no reason why, with effort, that we at FRRAX.com, can't have the best of both worlds. Great tech and good people.




[quote=rmackintosh,Jul 30 2004, 04:37 PM] (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[/quote]


And here I agree with Randy.

NO WAY IN HELL is it EVEN CLOSE to fair or IMO accurate to stereotype F-body owners as lazy.


I HAVE GOT TO THINK that Rand, and I ARE NOT the only ones who feel this way. AND I DO KNOW that we are not the only ones practicing the same way.


I already know what some of you think, and could give a shit...To PROPERLY, AND METICULASLY prep EVEN AN AUTOX car takes A TON of time.

Now this isn't always the case. I've really stepped up car prep/development in the past year. And there IS a big difference between 'just doing' it' and doing the things you need to do THE RIGHT WAY.


IMO NOT ONE OF US, is as lazy as your rant seems to imply. If that were the case we wouldn't be racing F-bodies, and we would be paying someone else to DO EVERYTHING. I just can't, for the most part, consider enthusiasts lazy. At least not at a wholesale level.



[quote=rmackintosh,Jul 31 2004, 12:27 AM-->

Should be a fun toy though....learn GOOD before those brackets....I have heard from Jason and others that STRONG welds are critical in that system....

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) [/quote]
Sorry to go off topic but I'll keep it short.

Good welds are mandatory. Stressing GOOD, not pretty.

I have had TWO failures. One I'm not willing to bet was weld related. And would bet otherwise. The bracket bought from Lane Automotive, just simply ripped apart. Flawed designe wasn't braced at the most stressed point. MY BAD.

#2 WAS MY FAULT. In my defence I was using an unfamiler welder. But the stock PHR bracket that I welded to ripped apart near the welds, BUT NOT AT THE WELDS.
Again MY BAD. This one required a new housing.

Dammit didn't I say I would keep it short. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif)



One other thing. Jon are you ignoring my thread about modeling because I'm so damn dumb and lazy? :stupid:



Tell you what, and I ask this to benefit many and possibly including YOU...
I really want to KNOW what is going on with the different geometries of the suspensions both front and rear. In my current position I can do the work, but I CAN'T afford the software, especially with future plans for the car/racing budget...

I would still like to double check the measurements. NOT, REPEAT NOT beacause I don't trust your measurements, because I KNOW your the type of guys to take accurate measurments. BUT, because of my own piece of mind, and because eventually I would like to purchase my own software, (Probably Autoware, or Bill Mitchell)

What do you think of taking our measurements, and making say 20 different printouts in various states of rolls, steering angles, bumps, and maybe plug in any different changes we had in mind.

All for a fee, that would be a good bit cheaper than buying our own software, but still worthwhile to you. Possibly putting some money in your pocket if enough guys took advantage of it. (which plenty SHOULD)


What do you think????

[rmackintosh]

Here is a perfect example. I have discussed with another board mod about the level in which we are willing to help others who we compete with.

I've been working on something that is generally pretty damn simple. BUT, I have put HOUR UPON HOUR of research into it. Maybe it's just me but in this instance, for others to catch up, they need to bust butt, not have the info given away by me.

(I MAY OR MAY NOT GET TO THE FACT THAT I'M NOT THE JERK THIS MAY MAKE ME SEEM LIKE TO SOME)


What do you think????

Lonnie...

I TOTALLY agree with you. If a competitor came up to me and asked my help with fixing something on his car.....all over that.....THAT TRAIT COST ME A CHAMPIONSHIP...but I would still do it. If they came up and asked "...how do you like X......" or "...how does Y work on your car..." I would ALSO answer honestly and accurately about such things.

HOWEVER, if I had come up with a super trick idea that put me ahead of my ITE competitors by a second or two all of a sudden, I CERTAINLY wouldn't GIVE IT AWAY to them. If it was something simple like "Hey Randy, I noticed since you bolted on the Hoosiers, you are 2 seconds a lap faster....what do you think?" I would probably say, "hey, you are right....I think Hoosiers are the ticket and if you can swing 'em, I'ld do it..."

But if I spent time and effort building a better mousetrap be it suspension/engine/etc that was the ticket for me....I would SURELY downplay it and not give it to them...might say "....yeah, I did some motor work in the offseason..." and NOT let him know about the trick heads or supercharger I bolted on....there is a difference between helping your competitors out and giving them the info to beat you. Now since I "gave away" my championship....I am OBVIOUSLY (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif) ...on the more GIVING side of things than I should be, but there is a line of where helping is nothing other than giving away comp secrets that YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO...

...don't worry...you're no jerk.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif)

[ESPCamaro]

I remember the middle of last month at the Toledo Pro Sam's car had a set of bum bushings.

Now I'm not a Sam quality driver, but if not for my right side redlight I would have been ALOT closer. Which was a big deal to me, since it would have been my best showing EVER.

In this case it was different because he had done the same for me the month before, but I helped him swap front LCA's and that just made him kick our butt even more.

A little different because I felt I owed him. In this case I'll help.
I think this aspect of what we do you and I Randy are EXACTLY alike. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[mitchntx]

Here is a perfect example. I have discussed with another board mod about the level in which we are willing to help others who we compete with.

I TOTALLY agree with you. If a competitor came up to me and asked my help with fixing something on his car.....all over that.....THAT TRAIT COST ME A CHAMPIONSHIP...but I would still do it.

To put it all in perspective of what this topic was originally about ...
I quoted Randy and Lonnie ... but this is just for general consumption ...

If the same competitor came up to either you and, with a speech impediment, called the part he needed a "wha-wha-wha- what's-it" instead of it's proper name, a "whose-it" ...

would you

1) still help him because he's still a racer and we are all brothers in some form or fashion

or

2) verbally berate him in the middle of the pits for being an a_s_s-clown? Afterall, he should know how to communicate and know the name of the part he needs, right?

[rmackintosh]

...well, I think we all know my answer to that!

CALL HIM AN ASSCLOWN! :leaving:

Just Kidding....

Hey, I know a VERY FAST guy who has such an impediment....GUY IS LIGHTNING on wheels...I try and ASK HIM all I can......

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

...and I tried to keep up with him on the track.....ONCE..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) ......let us just say...he used the asphalt as a MERE SUGGESTION of where to put the car....

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

gots TONS of track records though...

[mitchntx]

...well, I think we all know my answer to that!

CALL HIM AN ASSCLOWN! :leaving:

Just Kidding....

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

And I figure most everyone's answer would be the same.

I guess what I don't understand is how when face to face some folks have one personality and when behind the monitor, they take on a totally different persona.

Everyone that knows me, knows that I'm a jerk, regardless ...

[GlennCMC70]

WERE IS THAT DAMN POPCORN SMILEY?!?!
(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Jon A]

3) Call you guys Assclowns.

Because:

A) Somebody with a speech impediment, can't help it. Those with legitimate language problems are cut some slack.

B ) Once something comes out of your mouth, it's too late. It's done, over. It either came out correctly or not. Nobody puts a gun to your head to make you hit the "submit" button without even looking at it first. You don't have to hit it until you decide people can read it. If you can type at all, there's no physical disablility that makes it impossible for you to hit the shift key. If you're too dumb to figure out how to use a spell checker, you're too dumb to be posting there.

A more accurate analogy would be you're the guy who needs help at the track. You walk over to a HUGE trailer of one of the biggest racing teams there. A team with a staff of mechanics and every tool in the world. Do you:

1) Say, "Excuse me sir, but I believe I'm having X problem with my car. I was wondering if I could borrow Y tool.... Does doing Z to the car sound like it's the right way to fix X problem?"

2) Say, "dude could U fix my car . what wrong? helll if i no. u firgure it out. u got al da the mekaniks"

CC.com has the most mechanics and biggest toolbox. If you want some help, you can put forth some effort in the way you ask for it. It's really the least one can do.

[94bird]

Very good point Mitch. I think the different personality that can be brought out by being isolated behind a computer monitor goes both ways.

On the receiving end of a question, you can say what you want. The guy can't punch you, right? As long as your virus and malware protection is up to date, you can do what you want. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
When I'm at a track I have very rarely been asked the same question more than once so it's also less likely I'll become irritated at the person asking the question. I also know they have no search function to spend a few minutes checking for themselves before asking me.

On the asking end of a question, computers make it so much easier to bang out a quick question and then be on your way to other fun links. You just sit back and wait for other people to do the work that way. However, computer forums also have pretty good search functions, and I do consider it irresponsible for a forum user to just ask a question without even attempting to do a search first. I don't get mad at them and call them an assclown, but many times I'll do the search myself and then send them a link. That's a subtle hint to try a search the next time.

[prockbp]

you can justify being an asshole a hundred different ways... but justification is only needed if you don't want the reputation of being an asshole.... but that's not the case... there is a certain amount of pride about cc.com attitude.. so why try and justify it?

just admit the facts.. "we're assholes" or "yah, some of us are assholes"

and then let the thread die... we could do hypotheticals till the end of time...

one thing though.. when people respect you, they follow you, so it's important to know how to lead... leadership is not a quality that assholes have

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/thumbup.gif)

[rmackintosh]

Everyone that knows me, knows that I'm a jerk, regardless ...

....true...true...

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif)

[rmackintosh]

2)  Say, "dude  could U  fix my car .  what wrong?  helll if i no.  u firgure it out.  u got al da the mekaniks"

...scary part is.....I UNDERSTAND THAT PERFECTLY.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif)

CC.com has the most mechanics and biggest toolbox.  If you want some help, you can put forth some effort in the way you ask for it.  It's really the least one can do.

Problem is.....typically I am the guy with the biggest tool box and supplies at the track......sometimes I almost feel used....snif, snif.....

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[Jon A]

there is a certain amount of pride about cc.com attitude..

You don't say. Is the sky blue, too? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[mitchntx]

I am the guy with the biggest tool box and supplies at the track

Randy, I'm your new best friend.

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif)

[mitchntx]

Jon I do not disagree with your points. We have similar frustrations with answering the silly questions. There are too many of them ...

I guess I would advocate ignoring the lazy questioner as opposed to a public humiliation. It takes as much time and effort to dress someone down as it does to just answer the question.

JMHO