To retain an attorney or not? Options

[Absolut Speed]

I know a message board is the last place to ask, but....

Most know my pit area was run over at a Solo II event and approx $1000 in damage was done. Offender refused to pay, as has insurance. Attorney I know did a favor for me and wrote a letter to the offender's insurance company asking them to do this the easy way and pay up now, or the hard way, and take the case to court. They again refused to pay. The attorney I used doesn't practice in Iowa and he referred me to someone who does for $155/hour.

I'm already out $1000, so..

Do I go alone and risk losing $1000, assuming it's a fairly simple case be it judged one way or the other?

Or do I improve my chances and hire an attorney, risk losing $1300 and at most get back $690?

When I pitted this question to the attorney that wrote the letter for me, he said it was always his advice to recommend legal counsel, especially when his insurance, who would represent him, would use an attorney.

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif)

[rmackintosh]

So, a competitor lost control and ran over all your stuff?

I personally would make it right if I did something like this...its called taking responsability for your actions.....a low priority in most people these days.....

I wouldn't sue the guy...but I would tell everyone who I raced with what a jerk the guy is and go out of my way to make him uncomfortable EVERY time I saw the guy...

[trackbird]

Wow. I wondered how your mess turned out. I am a bit hard headed on occasion and if it was in my budget, I'd consider the attorney. Now, I am not a fan of our "sue me" society and consider it a last resort. However, this is a last resort. I would make sure that you sue for court costs. It should cost you nothing for him to break your stuff and for you to get your money back. So, I'd get "help", check the law and go for it. Maybe I'd do that just because he said he'd take care of it (admitted guilt) and then changed his mind and decided it was not his problem. Second, you may have to garnish his wages in order to get your money. A court judgement will not mean that you get paid. That can be a whole different problem. If you have the cash, I'd probably do it, just for principal (and the cash is nice to have returned to you).

However, I'm not an attorney and I didn't stay at a holiday in express last night.....

[Absolut Speed]

So, a competitor lost control and ran over all your stuff?

To bring people up to speed, it was the father of a 16 year old participant, and he was there to spectate. He went to leave while I was making a run and pulled forward from his parking spot into the stall I was using next to my car as a pit area.

Everyone in the region has an opinion of the guy, but since he is not a member nor a competitor, there's nothing to be done along the lines you suggest, particularly not suing him. $1000 for me is my new tires for next year. A $1000 hit to my wallet isn't easily suffered, particularly when it was not on account of my actions.

[Formula WS6]

id have to agree with kevin. sorry to hear its coming down to this. id keep my eye out for him at any other events and prolly have some words with him if he ever showed up. but it sounds like hes a spineless puss so he'd prolly sue you for that or something rediculous.

[KeithO]

Seems like alot of lost time fooling with the lawyers and the courts. That's the unfortunate reality. I personally don't have the patience that I need to deal with situations like this...

So, I'd go turf his lawn with my f-body instead, but I guess I'm just being childish.

[Absolut Speed]

I am occasionally tempted to park across from his son's car some day and accidentally roll through his area.

[trackbird]

Seems like alot of lost time fooling with the lawyers and the courts. That's the unfortunate reality. I personally don't have the patience that I need to deal with situations like this...

So, I'd go turf his lawn with my f-body instead, but I guess I'm just being childish.

I uh, kinda did that once....

Now, I suggest he use a lawyer....

[rmackintosh]

....yeah....that is a LOT different situation than I supposed....

The guy is a REAL tool for acting that way....I was thinking a competition accident...but to back into/pull into someone's stuff in a situation like that and not take care of it.....sue his butt!


(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/nutkick.gif)

[Jabberwocky]

Man, that guy is a dillhole for not owning up to his mistakes.

You would reduce your chances of winning slightly if you don't retain a lawyer but with that said, I'd recommend against retaining a lawyer. I've had bad experiences with lawyers draining me dry moneywise. Keep in mind that the lawyer will charge you the retainer, plus around 200-250 and hour, which includes any time he spends in court, at his office doing research, conducting phone calls to investigate, as well as any charges he might incur such as parking, postage, court filing fees, etc. It's all in the contract they try to get you to sign, read it. Ask you lawyer for a flat fee instead of an hourly rate and I think you'll be suprised at how much it cost.

Just sue him in small claims court. I hope you had filed a police report. I think the damages are small enough so that his insurance company wouldn't send a lawyer. Make sure you explain to the judge or jury that this happened on private property. If your stuff was on public property, that's different and you might lose, but since it was on private property, that changes things a bit. Although he was welcomed onto the private property, there are implied rules and conditions. You can't be held accountable for carelessness since your stuff wasn't on public property. The only way he can really get out of this is to claim that you were negligent. On private property, negligence is much harder to prove. It doesn't really matter how he damaged your stuff, just that he did. If he had bashed your windows in with a hammer, he'd be liable. It's not very different if he decided damage your stuff with his car. Let us know, best of luck to you.

[mitchntx]

Before I could pass judgement, I would need to know what the "norm" is at the event.

Does eveyone use 2 pit stalls?
Is it normal to drive through pit stalls to get from point A to point B?
Was the stall empty except for your T-Tops and floor mats?
Your wife witnessed the incident? where was she in relation to everything?
What is the normal flow of traffic to get to grid? to leave the property?

I guess it boils down to was the actions of the other guy reasonable?
Is it possible he didn't see the tops for whatever reason?
Was his vision obscured?
Was he not paying attention?
Was he following suit that others were taking?

Did you make note of his IMMEDIATE reaction?
Any photos? from anyone in attendance of the scene?

Be careful and do a little homework before filing a claim. Many times, judges don't allow one to recoup their lawyer fees. It's supposed to reduce the number of frivalous suits.

I was nailed with an "at fault" claim a couple years ago. I was almost stationary in a parking lot when a clown attempted a pass on the right at over 30 mph. He glanced off my car.

He claimed I turned in front of him.

I took a ton of photos and the case went to an arbitraitor. The thing that saved my butt was a photo I took of the damage to my car. In it, however, it showed his skid marks, which revealed the point of impact by a directional change in the marks and the dent in my car. My car had moved less than 2 feet.

You can't be turning if you aren't moving.

The point is ... documentation, documentaion, documentation ...

[94bird]

Scott, this is the first I heard of the situation, but if you're still in need of some t-tops you can have mine. They're in great shape and came out of a '94 Firebird if they will work for you. Going through a lawsuit isn't something I'd wish on anyone, so if replacing your t-tops for free helps any, they're yours.

Edit: Just read that you've already replaced your t-top for the TA Nationals.

Something tells me that if you sue, it will be more hassle than it is worth. Insurance companies bank on that when they give responses to you like they did. You can fight for the principle of the thing, but be prepared to either lose the case or spend a very large amount of your time getting some of the money back.

[shortbus]

I'd sue.

He drove over it. It is his resposibility to control his car. What if that was a small child in your pit area? Or someone changing tires in a nearby stall? It would not change a thing. Your drivers license makes you responsible.

[Absolut Speed]

Before I could pass judgement, I would need to know what the "norm" is at the event.

Does eveyone use 2 pit stalls?
Is it normal to drive through pit stalls to get from point A to point B?
Was the stall empty except for your T-Tops and floor mats?
Your wife witnessed the incident? where was she in relation to everything?
What is the normal flow of traffic to get to grid? to leave the property?

I guess it boils down to was the actions of the other guy reasonable?
Is it possible he didn't see the tops for whatever reason?
Was his vision obscured?
Was he not paying attention?
Was he following suit that others were taking?

Did you make note of his IMMEDIATE reaction?
Any photos? from anyone in attendance of the scene?

Be careful and do a little homework before filing a claim. Many times, judges don't allow one to recoup their lawyer fees. It's supposed to reduce the number of frivalous suits.

I was nailed with an "at fault" claim a couple years ago. I was almost stationary in a parking lot when a clown attempted a pass on the right at over 30 mph. He glanced off my car.

He claimed I turned in front of him.

I took a ton of photos and the case went to an arbitraitor. The thing that saved my butt was a photo I took of the damage to my car. In it, however, it showed his skid marks, which revealed the point of impact by a directional change in the marks and the dent in my car. My car had moved less than 2 feet.

You can't be turning if you aren't moving.

The point is ... documentation, documentaion, documentation ...

I'm the only one with t-tops, but not the only one with two stalls. A few have tire stacks, one has an EZ Up and another uses a portable awning. Then there's those with the trailers.

There is no normal procedure. The lot used for the course is separate, but adjacent. Drivers return to the parking area after each run and as their turn nears, they get in line in the grid on the course lot.

Stall had t-tops, mats, cooler, toolbox, compressor, my helmet bag, wife's helmet bag and a torque wrench and tire gauge. There was a chair on the site for most of the day, but my family came to spectate late and used the chair.

Two witnesses. One heard the cooler sliding across the pavement and looked over to see him hit my t-top. The other witness is his son, who I have not spoken to.

There isn't a "normal" flow. We spread out a bit, but there's not an organized flow.

It's very possible he did not see the t-tops. I don't believe it was malicious. Everything is relatively short, but I spread it out to take up space and flanked the corners of the t-tops with red things to make it more visible(cooler, toolbox & helmet bag).

His immediate reaction is unknown. I was actually making a run on the course when this transpired.

None of us were smart enough to take photos. I was thoroughly shocked and regretably, wasn't thinking clearly.

Here are photos I took this past weekend at the same location. I tried to layout my spot similar to last time.

My layout, roughly.

(IMG:http://63.164.215.74/posts/ttop/my-spread.jpg)
(IMG:http://63.164.215.74/posts/ttop/my-spread2.jpg)

The lot when part of group 1 left to grid:
(IMG:http://63.164.215.74/posts/ttop/5.jpg)

Shots of other drivers' stashes
(IMG:http://63.164.215.74/posts/ttop/9.jpg)
(IMG:http://63.164.215.74/posts/ttop/14.jpg)
(IMG:http://63.164.215.74/posts/ttop/12.jpg)

[CMC#5]

Small claims court is your answer, I think. Gather up all of your proof, and roll the dice. Its cheap, and you can even include those costs. You can sue him, not his insurance, so its you against him, not you against a lawyer.

[SuperCricket]

Small claims court is your answer, I think. Gather up all of your proof, and roll the dice. Its cheap, and you can even include those costs. You can sue him, not his insurance, so its you against him, not you against a lawyer.

Exactly what I was thinking. When reading this the words "Judge Judy" kept coming into my mind.

[Absolut Speed]

I called the attorney I was referenced to. He said it was a coin toss in whether it was worth it to hire him. He noted that with the way small claims cases are scheduled in blocks in the county, I could have 4 billable hours into this @ $155/hour.

So I could end up $1500 in the hole in the worst case scenario. The judge could go 50/50 on the decision and I might break even, or could still end up in the hole depending on whether my case was first or last on the day.

Apparently lawyer fees are not recoerable in small claims court, so that's another negative. At best with an attorney, I get $700.

But then he stated he also has been on the other side on behalf of insurance companies and usually won, which didn't make me feel good. However, he also said most of the losers were "less than well-spoken."

The attorney seemed rather candid and said he'd take the case if I so chose, but that he wasn't sure that was worth it considering the risk of a 50/50 judgment or sitting at the courthouse all afternoon waiting to be called in.

His final suggestion was to contact the guy one last time and seek a settlement, noting the increased risk to his insurance rates where he'd pay more in the long run.

[mitchntx]

Keep in mind, you are up against convincing a non-car guy the reasons behind your claim. All he sees is a 3 year old car that you race. It's gonna be a tough nut to crack ...

After my encounter with convincing "those guys", they will ask why you didn't put such valuable items in the back of that truck ... or at least on the bed of that trailer or even leave them at home? And if the car has so much value, why do you risk damage by racing it?

You will have to defend your reasons for both how you "take care" of your possessions and why you race such a valuable car.

I suggest you pay that lawyer a fee to have a letter drafted and sent certified to the guy, not his insurance company. In it suggest a discovery hearing and depositions.

Then HE will be faced with loss of work and hiring an attorney.

[sgarnett]

Something I learned from an attorney friend:

A letter from an attorney (obviously) implies that you have retained the services of an attorney, which in turn implies a higher level of commitment on your part to pursuing the matter.

I would at least have your attorney write a letter to the guy (not his insurance company). If you decide to pursue the matter in small claims court without an attorney, fine, but the letterhead is important for that last-ditch letter.

Like Mitch said, make the guy realize that ditching his responsibility will still cost him time and money (even if he prevails).

[35th_Anniversary...]

stated he also has been on the other side on behalf of insurance companies and usually won, which didn't make me feel good. However, he also said most of the losers were "less than well-spoken."

I would suggest taking the guy to small claims and not suing his insurance company at all. The insurance company has more "outs" to not pay under their policy, whereas the guy who caused the damage does not.