6 Banger..., lack of cylinders makes for talk... Options

[DriftPhyre]

Hey guys, as a recent addition to the autox world I had some questions. I AM a v6 Camaro w/ an auto... yes some higher nature has frowned at me in the racing world. However I've decent mods (SLP cai, flowmaster ex., tb spacer, msd wires, zexel lsd, and sfcs) and wanted to know what class I would belong in. Around here I practice autox and some mild drifting on a pass I've found around the local lake. I've looked into that class that's making a tour (can't remember the name) but will be here in March. As a noober, I was wanting just some basic advice for someone who has just entered the relm of autox as well as an anti-flame suit in extreme cases (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) . - B

[sgarnett]

Well, the best way to run a V6 in autocross is probably stock (GS), but you aren't legal there anymore.

If it wasn't for the subframe connectors, you could run in ESP, but they bump you to SM. I think you're also under the displacement limit for STX, but I don't know what mods are allowed in tht class.

If you happen to have bolt-on SFC's it might be worth removing them.

Definitely take the Evolution class if you can - it's by far the single most cost effective way to improve your time.

BTW, drifting is NOT the fast way around an autocross course (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Have you actually tried an autocross yet (can't really tell from your post)? If not, show up at the first event as early as possible (when they open). When you register, tell them you are new and somebody will probably show you the ropes. Walk the course as many times as possible, and if there's a guided novice walkthrough, be in it (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

You do need a good front end alignment (max - camber, max caster, 0 to 3/32" total toe OUT). I'm running 3/32" toe out on my daily driver with no problems, but you might want less - try it and see (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Other than that, I wouldn't worry too much about other mods yet.

[DriftPhyre]

My sfcs are NOT on at the moment actually, I just received them from hotpart.com. What mods make or break you in a certain classes? I really don't drift that much at all and would never do it other than for fun. I've never ran autocross on an actual course but am looking forward too it, I loathe drag-racing (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[sgarnett]

Well, you need to get a rulebook before spending money on mods, but here's the VERY short version:

Stock - You can change shocks, front swaybar (not the rear), brake pads, and catback exhaust. You can run almost any DOT tire, but must use the stock size rim. V8 and V6 Camaros are in separate classes (FS, GS).

E Street Prepared - You can also change the rim size, intake manifold, throttle body, exhaust manifold, springs, rear swaybar, torque arm, differential (but not axle), etc. There are some common mods that are NOT allowed, such as SFC's. V8 and V6 Camaros both go in this class.

I don't know the STX rules very well. I don't think the SFC's are legal there either, but I'm not sure. Other than that, everything is probably ok. You will mostly be running against MUCH lighter cars, though.

The Flowmaster is legal in Stock.

If the differential is a stock T2 (not an aftermarket T2R) and IF that was available as an option on your V6 car (dunno), it may be legal in stock, otherwise it bumps you to ESP.

The CAI and TB spacer both bump you into ESP, and any differential that will fit in the stock axle is allowed.

The SFC's bump you to SM, or ???

If you don't want to demod your car back to stock, I'd stay in ESP. You have less power than the 4th gen V8s, but more than some 3rd gen V8s. The V6 suspension is pretty soft, but you can fix that later.

For now, I'd sell or return those SFC's and spend the money on Evolution.

[94bird]

Try this site for a handy explanation of the classes and rules:

http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/

[zlexiss]

As a V6 Firebird autocrosser for the last year, here's my breakdown:

The subframe connectors will put you in SM - you don't want to be there.

With the other mods you have, you have your choice of ESP and STX. The main differences (besides the PAX factor) are tires. In STX, wheels are 8" wide max, with 245 rubber, and wear rating at least 140. Think Kumho MX or Falken Azenis. You'll need 17x8's to get any decent tires on the car in STX. ESP lets you run race rubber.

STX will have you up against cars like the WRX - they're at least as fast, lighter, and smaller. It's hard to be competitive against a lot of those guys, we loose big time on tight courses. Our advantage here is the broad torque curve of the V6 (stop laughing you V8 guys!) with no turbo lag like the WRX and VW's have.

In ESP you're lumped in with the V8 F-bodies. Enough said there.

Driver skill aside, I think the V6 F-body is really only competitive in stock (GS). But for someone who likes to mod their car (like me), STX is home. Intake, full exhaust, most all suspension work are ok. No race tires or weight reductions (like taking out the back seat).

Since you're starting, just make sure to have fun. Get ridealongs with the experienced F-body drivers, you can learn a lot from riding along in the V8's, and having them ride with you. As mentioned, Evolution school is a great thing, especially in that period where you're getting used to autocrossing and your car, but haven't become really set in your bad habits (6-12 events?)

Let me know if you need any more help and advice.

-Jeff

[SuperCricket]

Just like all the other guys have said, the V6 F-body surely isn't all that competitive stock. The V8 powered version is tricky enough to toss around the cones.

However, I raced over a season in G-stock my first year in the 92 Camaro and I had tons of fun. I was on 420 treadwear street tires, and they howled around the entire course. I was slow as dirt, didn't know what I was doing, frequently locked up the tires (no abs) and plowed into large piles of cones. I made sure to give the course workers something to do when I came through. I also had an automatic, and the best part was gassing it out of a turn in 2nd gear, only to have it downshift into first mid corner and go spinning the back end around. Most of my runs had me accidently honking the horn at corner workers, and usually had me with the blinkers on as well. Came in last just about every single time, except for the rare occasion where someone coned and DNFed all their runs. It sure was fun though, and that is the most important part.

Do whatever you want to your car, race in whatever class you end up in, and just have fun. Get some friends out there and howl around the course on street tires just like I did. It's great fun.

[DriftPhyre]

Thanks a TON guys for the support. It's nice to have encouragment in new areas. I feel more confident in what I want to do.

[sgarnett]

I have an LS1, and have (ahem) been beaten by a V6 Camaro. Not often, but .... It's not easy to actually use all of the V8's power, especially on the smaller courses. I'm only at full throttle for a small percentage of the time.

The V6 is still at a disadvantage, but if properly set up and driven well they can be surprisingly quick.

[zlexiss]

Above all, I have to say the V6 F-body has been a great car to learn autocrossing in. With a little suspension work to take away the softness they put into it (hitting the bumpstops in turns on average street tires (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) ), it'll handle just like it's big brothers, and the V6 being completely behind the front wheels gives a nice balance bonus.

With the V6 can concentrate on a lot of your driving without having to worry as much about throttle subtlety, esp. with the Torsen in the back. Yes, you still can't treat the gas as a binary switch, but you can focus a lot on smoothing and coordinating your inputs better without having worrying about the tail as much.

Someday I might start PAXing as high as the good F-body drivers out here (Larry Petrucci and Don Hyland), but it'll be tough to beat those two on pure time.

-Jeff