Motorcycles vs car at the track? Options

[Crazy Canuck]

braking... one would think that bikes brake harder than cars... but it's not true... look @ figures of 60-0 braking.

[Crazy Canuck]

still not the article I had in mind.
the one I have in mind was Kevin Schwantz riding the Gixxer 1000 and Z06 back to back last year in Motorcyclist. Schwantz has raced pro in both car & motorcycling racing. He turned in a time close to the SCCA record in the Corvette

still looking for the article.

[Crazy Canuck]

no link, but this:
the April 02 issue of MotorCyclist, page 60

[Crazy Canuck]

HAHAHA!!!
Here it is...

2002 Z06 vs 2002 Suzuki GSX-R1000 (Motorcyclist Apr-02)
http://solo2.abac.com/avigdor/mags/motorcy.../carvsbike.html

enjoy the reading.

For added pleasure:
here are some more:

The fastest cars in the world and a bone stock 2000 Kawasaki ZX12R (Road & Track Jun-00)
http://solo2.abac.com/avigdor/mags/roadand...e2000/Page.html

Dodge Viper GTS VS. Yamaha YZF1000R (Car & Driver Dec-96)
http://solo2.abac.com/avigdor/mags/carandd...c1996/Page.html

1966 427 Cobra SC VS. 1985 Yamaha V-Max(Cycle World May-85)
http://solo2.abac.com/avigdor/mags/CycleWo.../maxvscobra.htm

[FAST LS1]

I'm guessing the bike walked the ZO6 so hard because Willow is a pretty
"straight" wide open track. The more straights the better the track's
suited for a bike, or even long sweepers. Throw in some chicanes and I
bet it throws a wrench in the bike's times.

Either way how many mods would the ZO6 really be away from the bike?
Tires, cam, and supporting bolt-ons maybe?

The bikes are impressive but I don't know how they'd fair against
a new Viper or the upcoming C6 ZO6, especially on a tighter course.

[Soma07]

looks like the only advantage i see so far is horsepower...

Just because you can't see them it doesn't mean they aren't there. Watch the video bruecksteve posted. The 911 is clearly outbraking the bike by a wide margin.

[Judd]

Is that the road that heads up toward Brasstown Bald? If so, yes. Bikers are crazy on that road. The idea of staying in your lane escapes those guys.

I think the road that goes by Brass Town Bald is Hwy 75, that road goes through Helen. Highway 129 runs from Athens, through Gainesville, Cleveland and Blairsville Georgia. The part I'm talking about is between Cleveland and Blairesville. Great road for a Sunday afternoon, like it better than most I've seen. Richard Russel Scenic Parkway {Alternate 75} is also a great road but it also has alot of gravel on it. Highway 60 from Dahlonega through Suches is real tight. It's actually alot like Tail of the Dragon.

Actually, we need to try to get a GAFBA ride up through there one weekend.

[NickS]

The car's going to be faster.

For some comparison:

The MotoGP lap record at Malaysia is a 2:03:822 held by Rossi.

The F1 lap record is held by Montoya is a 1:34.223

The MotoGP lap record at Catalunya is a 1:45.472 set by Rossi in '03.

The F1 lap record is a 1:17.450 held by Shumey.

Yes, its a bit tough to compare an F1 car to any other sort of road race vehicle, whether it have 2 or 4 wheels. You could compare AMA Superbike times to Indy Car times at Laguna Seca. I recall checking them earlier last year and the Indy cars are quite a bit faster than the bikes.




-N

[zlexiss]

looks like the only advantage i see so far is horsepower...

How about downforce and other aero features on a car?

[patred]

looks like the only advantage i see so far is horsepower...

Just because you can't see them it doesn't mean they aren't there. Watch the video bruecksteve posted. The 911 is clearly outbraking the bike by a wide margin.

The braking zone before the last chicane in particular ... the bike had just taken the lead on the back stretch, and the Porsche out-braked him before that chicane.

"... and now bikers everywhere can just SHAT UP!" (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Pat

[Dave B]

I have 2 good friends who ride different bikes ( Sorry but I don't know the particulars of their bikes) at 2 different race tracks I compete on. Both of them hit fastest speeds (confirmed by radar) that range from 15 to 20 mph faster than I do, yet my lap times are consistantly lower (much to their chagrin). I have no reason to believe I am a better driver as one of the Bike drivers won his race class this year against sig competition. BTW one of the tracks is VERY fast ( Mosport) and the other significantly slower (Pro track at Shannonville).

Knowing how much they beat me in a straight line yet how I beat them lap time wise is easy proof to me that 4 wheels out handle 2 wheels anyday.

As to which brakes better? Who cares, brakes only slow you down.

[jraskell]

Important factors to take into consideration when comparing bikes and cages...

Braking... A bike isn't limited by it's mechanical grip in braking. Any decent road going bike out there can brake so hard the tail will whip right up and over. The best riders will brake right on that edge where the back tire is barely kept on the ground. When you've got it just right, the rear tire will only be skipping lightly across the ground. The high center of gravity of the bike keeps it from reaching it's full stopping potential.

However, unlike a cage, a high center of gravity is actually necessary for good cornering. The lower the center of gravity, the more you have to lean the bike to ride through a given corner at a given speed. If it's too low, you'll be dragging pegs, frame rails, and exhaust before reaching the potential limits of the bike itself.

Mechnical grip. The comparison is not just a simple matter of comparing 2 tires to 4 tires. The tire designs themselves have to be accounted for, and with motorcycle tires, you have a tire carcass that is also curved laterally, so at no point do you have the entire width of the tire in contact with the road. Then you get into tire sizes as well. Many street bikes today are running a 120 series up front and 180 series out back. For any of the cars mentioned in this thread so far, those are considered seriously narrow tires. Many of these cars are running tire widths in the 245-335 range, with the entire width in contact with the road surface, not just roughly 1/3rd or less of the width.

An AMA superbike on racing tires is going to pull about 1.3-1.4 Gs max in the corners. If I'm not mistaken, Formula Cars are capable of upwards of 3 Gs in the corners, and most other professional racing series are capable of better than 1.3-1.4 Gs as well.

And has been already said here, motorcycles require more skill to drive fast, are more dangerous to drive fast, are less forgiving when you push them a bit too hard (although there are some cars that have a reputation for being unforgiving as well, but in general every sports bike is like that).

[94bird]

Another Top Gear Video - http://www.kuecker.net/downloads/Videos/To...r_ArielAtom.wmv

Edit - Damn, the link above doesn't work, but the video is out there. Do a search on Ariel Atom and see what you find.

There are many in this series trying to find the fastest street car in the world around the road course they made. "Stig" is an ex F1 driver but they never say who he is exactly. Anyway, this Ariel Atom is my kind of car. If you can see his cheeks rippling in the wind and not have it send chills up your spine you're just simply not a car guy. Near the end they race a 600cc street bike around the course. It looks like too much fun for words.

[jraskell]

If you can see his cheeks rippling in the wind and not have it send chills up your spine you're just simply not a car guy.

I love those Ariels. Your basic no nonsense high performance street legal race cars, but no chills up my spine. Then again, I've always suffered from an inherent lack of fear.