New Camaro = D.O.A.?? Options

[pknowles]

Out here 91 octane is $2.50 a gallon, and all you see are suv's.

93 is a little higher here in DC. I did the math a few years ago, but gas would have to go up to about $5 a gallon to break even on the gas saving verse the extra insurance of buying a beater econobox compared to the Camaro. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/nutkick.gif) Plus I have to maintain the econobox, no thanks. I drive 17 miles to work everyday, if that was 50 miles then it might matter.

[trackbird]

Phil, I'm with you. I drive 13 miles to work (though my 2002 Z has 56k on it, I drive a bunch, but not to work). I've considered a beater myself. But, I think I need a beater truck/tow vehicle if I were going to do anything. I guess if I bought a beater, I'd start working on the Camaro (headers, heads, cam, exhaust, etc). Maybe that's why I'm not letting myself buy a beater..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

[94bird]

SHELBY MUSTANG NAME IS BACK WITH A VENGEANCE
Ford Motor Co. next year will launch the first Shelby Mustang since 1970. The vehicle, which will be nearly identical to the Shelby Cobra GT500 show car unveiled yesterday at the New York auto show, will be the most powerful Mustang ever produced. Due next summer, the Cobra GT500 will feature a supercharged 5.4-liter V-8 engine expected to generate at least 450 hp and a like amount of torque. The 32-valve DOHC powerplant is borrowed from Ford’s $140,000 GT supercar. The engine will be mated to a specially tuned six-speed Tremec manual transmission.

Although a three-link, solid rear axle design will be used instead of an independent unit to save weight, Ford claims driving characteristics haven’t been compromised. The suspension is basically the same as that used in the base Mustang GT, with MacPherson struts in front. The “live” rear axle has modified shock valving and higher-rate springs.

Braking is managed by 14-inch cross-drilled Brembo rotors in the front and 13s in the rear. Other features include a distinctive front fascia with a one-inch-larger grille opening than the GT’s to improve airflow to the engine, new headlamps and a one-inch-higher hood to accommodate the supercharger. Rear appointments include a new fascia and spoiler, which provides 80 lbs of downforce at 120 mph.

The vehicle was developed by Ford’s Special Vehicle Team in collaboration with the legendary Carroll Shelby, who began working with the automaker in the 1960s following a distinguished racing career. The relationship was renewed in 2001 after a temporary falling out. The 82-year-old Shelby describes the GT500 as a street car that can be driven on the race track—balancing power and refinement—instead of a race car modified for the street as the previous models had been. Styling cues come from the 1968 GT500, which was the first Shelby Mustang to use the Cobra name. The 1965 GT350 was the first Shelby Mustang. Future SVT Mustang projects are expected to revive other classic names such as Bullitt and Mach. The automaker plans to build about 7,500 GT500s per year at its plant in Flat Rock, Mich. It’s targeting a sub-$40,000 base price.

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(IMG:http://www.detnews.com/pix/autos/2007/07fordshelbygt500/7.jpg)

Only 7500 of these at about $40K? They'll be sold before the dealers get them.

Go here for more pictures: http://www.detnews.com/pix/photogalleries/...t500/index7.htm

[McCall]

On fastlane.gmblogs.com Bob posted a follow up to today's the news.

I think the comments from the bloggers back to Lutz thoroughly rebut his
response to the news. If you don't build the new Camaro on the Zeta,
then what chassis? And how long will that take to develop? 3-4 added years
putting a new Camaro out in 2011/2012?


Found this. Very interesting facts about GM and their new platforms:
http://www.blueovalnews.com/2005/products/...orm.21mar05.htm

Man, just too much good info on this topic. Yet another interesting article to throw into the fray:
http://www.blueovalnews.com/2005/products/...incre.31705.htm

but the Camaro would never help sales at GM :rollseyes:. It seems like 1964
is happening all over again and just like then GM is years behind.

[94bird]

GM is obviously going through some very bad times right now. I heard a few days ago GM was saying publicly they were going to increase incentives even more on vehicles to increase sales. Ugh.

Looks like Ford is selling Mustangs like hotcakes and DCX is selling just about anything with a Hemi in it faster than they can build the engines. I can't think of a single hot property from GM right now.

I do believe things will turn around for GM though. I'm getting a much stronger feeling that bankruptcy will be part of their way back.

[McCall]

GM is obviously going through some very bad times right now. I heard a few days ago GM was saying publicly they were going to increase incentives even more on vehicles to increase sales. Ugh.

Were you refering to this autoweek article?

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102011
"GM cries 'uncle' on rebates; new plan to focus on shrinking stickers, wooing jaded shoppers"

It sounds like they are actually going to cut-out rebates and just lower the sticker prices to put them in a better market position. Finally, a decent idea! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

I also read(can't find the link) that GM is thinking of killing another brand; either Buick or Pontiac. I would think with all the recent investment in new cars like the G6, Grand Prix, and Solstice that it will be Buick on the cutting block. That's kind of ok by me (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[94bird]

Hmm, all they're doing is lowering their sticker prices and lessening the rebates, so the cars will still sell for about the same amount of money. Sounds like marketing mumbo jumbo to me. Can't see it having any real impact on their sales. Now, if they were to cut their manufacturing cost and sell for the same price, that would affect profit.

Yes, I've also seen plenty about Buick being the next one on the chopping block. But at the same time GM is sinking a good bit of money into developing new Buicks.

[sgarnett]

Hmm, all they're doing is lowering their sticker prices and lessening the rebates, so the cars will still sell for about the same amount of money. Sounds like marketing mumbo jumbo to me.

The distinction between price and rebate probably affect the taxes they pay (rebates may be considered an advertising expense), the percentage that goes to the dealer, and maybe even the taxes paid by the buyer. It IS mumbo-jumbo, but it isn't necessarily benign mumbo jumbo.

[ESPCamaro]

No offense to you ESPers out there, but the Evo is my car, plain and simple if I was to buy a new car. Problem is a 10 yr old F body is still so much cheaper. It's hard to justify spending the extra money.

BTW, I still have a tender spot in my heart for the GLH Turbos - http://mywebpages.comcast.net/miketaylor68/glh.html

None taken.

If I could sell the Camaro I'd sell both the Camaro and truck and buy an 05' RS.

Run in STU for a year or two, and then buy another truck and build a SM or ESP car out of the EVO.....

BY FAR my favorite car that is out right now, and other than an 06' Mustang (9" wide wheels vs 05's 8" wheels) is the ONLY performance car I'd even consider buying.

Evo far and away more desireable to me than the Mustang because it's AWD, and because it has pretty good rear seat room. Along with 4doors.

[RWB____s]

Rest assured, we remain committed to developing RWD, premium, high-performance, affordable vehicles, perhaps even a few with a trace of nostalgia baked in.


Nostalgia= Chevy Vega (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[McCall]

More wonderful GM news today:

GM's decision to drop rear-drive Zeta platform is a blow to Australia's Holden
http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102070
"GM had planned to use the architecture as the basis for products that were scheduled to launch in North America in 2008 as sedans, sport wagons and coupes" - man, didn't that new line up just sound promising?? Oh well.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rant.gif)

Bob's Bombshell: Two weeks of turmoil at General Motors ends with a
disturbing hit at possible brand cut
http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102069
My money is on Buick.

[94bird]

Bob Lutz did say that yes, but notice how quickly it was retracted by LaNeve. I bet Bob got his hands slapped for saying such a thing publicly. Dealers were in an uproar the same day.

[prockbp]

i know how we all feel about the Zeta being cancelled...

but do you guys think that the general public cares about affordable rear drive sedans from GM?

is there any kind of research about that question that you know of?

[94bird]

You know, not very long ago I would have said the trends really looked like the public didn't much care about RWD sedans. However, after seeing how well the response has been to the Chrysler 300, Magnum, and upcoming Charger I have some doubts about that. Perhaps there is still some hope out there for RWD cars. GM has a lot of homework to do before they sell a good one that makes them a nice profit though.

[McCall]

I think the sales of the Mustang as well as the revitization of the Caddy really shows that people want RWD. Heck, look at the love of BMW and Mercedes. Don't get me wrong, FWD has it place but just not the FULL line of products.

[pknowles]

(pknowles @ Mar 22 2005, 09:55 PM)
SS Monte Carlo, haven't we learned that hotrod FWD's just don't sell. SVT focus, Colt GHL (think that's right), SRT4 (havn't seen one yet). 

You're kidding right? Hot rod FWDs don't sell? Maybe Maryland is an isolated pocket without a good market for fast FWD cars, but I doubt it. What doesn't sell well is hot rod mid size and larger FWD cars. Compacts are a completely different story.

I mean factory Hod rod FWD's, I see a few nice CRX's and civic's that have some major modifications and they are the very old ones. Mid-Maryland is SUV and high end luxuary car country without a doubt, well at least Mongomary county. Pat and Karen live farther out then I do so I'm sure they see more of a mix. I see more Lamborghini's and 100k+ Porshe's then factory hot rod FWD's, I'm not kidding.

[rpoz-29]

At least at my local Chevy dealer, EVERYTHING is loaded. I saw a $20,000 Cobalt. If they would stock a few stripped down models as well as the loaded ones, people would have more choices, and the dealer would have more sales. The only distinction between like models is their color. Prices are almost identical. And I was so happy when Lutz took the wheel.

[McCall]

Update:
Cadillac may share Sigma architecture; Buick, Pontiac could get
rear-drive models
http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102119

Well it sounds like the GTO is not dead but it still doesn't look good for the Camaro (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[94bird]

Don't forget, the first car that Lutz will put into production that he was involved with from start to finish is the Solstice. The others were already well into development before he could have any influence on them.

Phil, fast FWD cars from the factory have been selling well since the mid 80's or so. Not in the same numbers as their plain Jane brethren, but they make a good show. I guess you must live in a pocket where the kids in their 20's (yeh, I'm a little older than that) have a little more money and spend it on BMWs and Porsches. Heck, my Mom still drives her '91 Sentra SE-R. She loves it. Finally this year she may get rid of it, but only because she hit a deer head on and it did some serious damage.

[McCall]

Fresh news today:

Who Gets the Needle First - Buick or Pontiac?
http://channels.netscape.com/ns/autos/pack...ck_pontiac_end1

Camaro clone on GM's wish list
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0.../B01-148937.htm Zeta-light?? Could this be true?

Lutz: U.S. engineers need more hands-on training
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0.../B01-148929.htm