Everyone likes a good "Conspiracy Theory", Is big time racing wrecking for dollars? Options

[sgarnett]

I guilty of watching any form of racing.... Australian Jet boats, lawnmowers, Florida swamp buggies.....etc. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

I'll watch anything with a motor race. I'm not a diehard fan of any series, and don't really watch that much racing (can't, I'm busy autocrossing on Sundays), but I can enjoy all of it.

For that matter, I'd happily compete in any series that offered me a ride. Am I too proud to be a pro lawnmower racer? Heck no!

I do prefer the "privateer" races, though, simply because it's something I could conceivably do (or at least could have done, if I were younger and didn't have a kid), and the "run whatcha brung" varieties are always a hoot.

BTW, while they certainly aren't "grass roots", the Truck Grand Prix series is oddly fascinating to watch. Semis on road courses! Now who thought that one up?

[mitchntx]

Not trying to get this thread back on topic ...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news;_ylc=X...v=tsn&type=lgns

[Rob Hood]

Field is now up to 45 entries as of my posting. http://jayski.thatsracin.com/

I don't know Ms. Spencer's sports or literary background, but I am not too keen on "outside" publications discussing auto racing, regardless of which type. I',m pretty sure that the Sporting News does publish some auto-related publications, but again, I don't think they qualify to write on the subject as well as say, Chris Economaki's NSSN or some of the racing monthlies. I could be wrong and won't mind that.

However, I don't believe that one of Brian France's goals is cost containment. If that were so, then NASCAR would only have ONE set of body templates. There would be only ONE body style permitted, not one body style per type of track. There is an incredible amount of money being dumped into superspeedway bodies, intermediate bodies, and short track bodies, all for the right amount of downforce for the specific track. Having to maintain multiple cars just to have the right one for the right track is not cost-effective. NASCAR should only allow one car to be used. Build as many of that one car, but that body, engine/trans/rear/suspension should be the same (minus the typical adjustments and changes allowed) whether they race at Talladega, Bristol, or Watkins Glen. And the cars should not be of a "common template," either. Make the teams use a production or production-based body (the old factory backdoor "body in white") and build the car around that.

[AllZWay]

Mitch... I have been watching the outcome of not enough drivers showing up for a little over a week now.

Nascar had to offer some money to small teams to get the list to more than 43 and several of those teams are very small "Who dat's".

The $15 million dollar budgets are hard to swallow for many sponors and thus the dwindling fields. It will be interesting to see what Nascar does to help out this year.

[rmackintosh]

....uh oh.....do I see a chink in the good 'ol boys armor???? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

hmmmmm....lets see....BIG EXPENSIVE RACE TEAMS......COSTS SOARING......SPONSORS GETTING HARDER TO FIND.......

....I KNOW I have seen some of these things in some other series recently......if I could ONLY remember....

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[NataSS Inc]

Just want to add my .02

I did a short stint in sprint cars and did a couple runs in a super moddifed rig. Yeah we went around in circles, but there was alot more to it than just going in circles after a 100 lap run I was mentally and physically fatigued beyond belief. Trying to pilot an 800+hp open wheeled car in a crowd was NO easy task. Everytime you lift off the throttle the car wants to jump to the left, if you ever got "behind your car" you would be on the next edition of "MAX X" or speedvision where they show the worst crashes. I loved being in those cars!

NASCAR on the hand, has been bastardized as of late. There isnt the feel there like there used to be. To much commercialism. When I ran open wheels stuff got ugly....alot. I think it was because there was alot more passion driving what we did due to small (see:non existant) bugets. Now you have HUGE industry names on cars and the drivers pimping the product like cheap little whores. When I hear a NASCAR driver say something to the effect of "I just want to thank pepsi for making this win possible" it makes my stomach churn. Do you really think pepsi had anything to do with the car other than swathing a big check to get the largest part of the car for a sticker? NO! What I like seeing is the guy that says "I just want to thank the mom and pop differential shop that rebuilt my rear end so I could even make this race".........anyways....I am rambling so I will shut up now.

BUT I do like to watch NASCAR.

[mitchntx]

Wind Tunnel with that Despain clown actually made a good point.

He said that Richard Childress had 4 road course cars, 4 short track cars, 4 intermediate cars, 4 Speedway cars and 4 super speedway cars for each of the 4 teams he oversees.

That is 60 freaking cars to build and maintain.

I'm sure Roush, DEI, Yates are all the same.

[robz71lm7]

I usually stay out of these NASCAR good or bad threads because I'm tired of them but in short... I'm a NASCAR fan and I used to really love the series. I think it's just "ok" now. Lately it is so commericalized and with the new points system it's become really degraded. I liked it better in the early to mid '90's. If it could be what it was then, modernize the cars a little, and run more road courses it would be PERFECT (for me anyways).

I don't have the speed channel so I miss out on a lot of the trans am and world challenge type stuff. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

EDIT: I tend to agree with NataSS when it comes to the commercialization.

This post has been edited by robz71lm7: Feb 20 2004, 10:07 PM

[lateapex]

He said that Richard Childress had 4 road course cars, 4 short track cars, 4 intermediate cars, 4 Speedway cars and 4 super speedway cars for each of the 4 teams he oversees.

That is 60 freaking cars to build and maintain.

Mitch,
I may be older than you, but I can still multiply. 5 categories x 4 cars x 4 teams equals 80 cars. Less the ones they wadded up to get more sponsor air time. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

[Rob Hood]

Boyce, Pepsi probably paid for the "mom and pop" differential to get built nowadays in NASCAR, due to the escalating costs. That's at least one reason that Pepsi gets mentioned in the pre-race/during-the-race/post-race interview, since Pepsi is primarily footing the bill. Another way to look at this is with Pepsi footing the bill, more people are now employed in NASCAR-related companies (teams, support infrastructure, component manufacturers, etc.) than ever before. So what if Pepsi is all over the car? That's no different than F1 or CART or IRL or any other top tier series. I'm on your side as well on the commercialization issue. I wish it wasn't as bad as it is. It gets in the way of the race. And NBC's coverage (Nuthin' But Commercials) is pathetic. Even their producer admitted he didn't know much about covering a race. ESPN's coverage was much better, but Fox is pretty good.

Mitch's comment on the number of cars further reinforces my point of having only one car built vice a specific car for a track. That would significantly reduce costs. I highly doubt that 80 cars would be needed then, perhaps only 10 total. But the way that NASCAR has written the rules (and keeps re-writing them), the competition has gotten so tight that most race-day fields are only separated by a couple of seconds (Is a spec Miata race field much different, at least through the first few rows?)

NASCAR is a circus, no different than any other race series or professional sport being played today - but it's the best circus now. Open-wheel racing in America is dying, and that is unfortunate. I was fortunate to attend the Indy 500 twice before the split. To me, Indy no longer holds the same appeal since the split. It would be great to see that race's reputation repaired, particularly since it is a longer running event and has a lot more world-wide history attached.

[mitchntx]

Bob, why do you think I described my source as "that clown Despain".

Mitch "saving face" Warren

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[ESPCamaro]

If you need to hear someone thank the local mom and pop differential service for letting them win the race, go to a local short track.

Nascar is a professional series. Not a bunch of local short trackers.

And in case some haven't followed Nascar long (I have since around 91, and keep up on Nascar happenings of the past) It has been commercialized for a LONG, LONG, time.

Hell even back in the 60's BIG MONEY was forked over for some teams. You don't see any more Factory backed teams do you?

Budweiser has been a Nascar sponsor for how long? And Pennzoil, Valvoline, Havoline, Soft Drink companies, the list goes on.

The only difference now is that Cup cars are faster, have more technology, and cars/teams/drivers are more competitive. Not sure how that makes cup cars WORSE than they were at ANY point.

The only downside to Nascar today is big E is no longer with us. You either had a guy to HATE, or you had a guy to love. Either way it was better when he was still racin'.


And the proposed points system is GREAT!! How in the world did Matt Kenseth Deserve to win a championship? He produced almost ZERO real results. How many poles? How many laps/races led? How many wins?

Your Nascar champ should have been Ryan Newman. And suffice to say I'm NOT a fan of his.

[Rob Hood]

When NASCAR first announced the change in the points system, I was really against it. But the more I looked into it, I think it makes some sense. All NASCAR is doing is making official what has been happening all along. If you are 20th in points with 10 races to go, you probably aren't going to contend for the championship. But you still can contend for a win and get your sponsor some good air time.

However, I really wouldn't want to be the guy who is either 401 points back, or in 11th place. And it is a playoff, no different than baseball, football, or basketball. And I also believe that NASCAR did make the change with TV ratings in mind, since the last 10 races have to compete with football TV ratings.

[robz71lm7]

I'm going to disagree Lonnie. I feel NASCAR has become even more comericialized in the past few years. Even moreso since the switch to NBC/Fox from ESPN/TNN. With NBC and Fox it seems as if commercials have dramatically increased as well as advertisements during the coverage.

[Chris 96 WS6]

Great technical discussion of Nextel Cup motors:

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread....15&pagenumber=1

[AllZWay]

WOW!!! and not one Nascar bashing post in it. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[rmackintosh]

WOW!!! and not one Nascar bashing post in it. 

....I thought NASCRAP bashing was a SPORT!.....

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[Rob Hood]

Nah, that's just your jealousy showing... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[rmackintosh]

Wanna bash NASCRAP some more????

How about Joe Ruttmann, Kirk Shelmerdine, and Andy Hillenburg?

We all know that they couldn't fill the field last race....and decided to run the OUTSTANDING fellows above in order to "avoid embarassment"......

Joe Ruttmann was black flagged the first lap because HE DIDN'T HAVE A PIT CREW!!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

Kirk Shelmerdine was black flagged after 8 minutes because the FEILD had lapped him and he couldn't keep up!!!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

And Andy Hillenburg finshed 17 LAPS DOWN....WITH NO TROUBLE on the day!!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

Lookin' more like ENTERTAINMENT every damn day.....

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[mitchntx]

Damn Randy ... how much coffee have you had today?

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