 USGP. What a political POS race. |
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 Jun 22 2005, 02:52 PM
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#21
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FRRAX Owner/Admin  Group: Admin Posts: 15,432 Joined: 13-February 04 From: Ohio Member No.: 196  |
QUOTE (mitchntx @ Jun 22 2005, 09:28) Also missing was the reasoning behind Mr. Mosely and Mr. Toldt's stand. I explained Ferrari's stand. "It's good for us and the millions we've invested". And, it's hard to blame them in that regard. If I'd spent millions to go racing and showed up prepared and nobody else did, I'd gladly kick their butts (or I expect I would). It's hard to be friendly with millions of dollars involved. It wasn't good for the sport, but they don't race for the sport, they race for them. In some ways it's "sad" that they took the hard line, but it really makes sense (objectively) that they did just that. |
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Jun 22 2005, 03:02 PM
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#22
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Seeking round tuits Group: Advanced Members Posts: 5,522 Joined: 24-December 03 From: Kentucky Member No.: 33 |
QUOTE (CMC#5 @ Jun 22 2005, 09:31) As to wether or not run when you know you're hopelessly uncompetitive...well, Minardi does that week in and week out, and they keep coming back for more. They believe they'll eventually get there, or they believe its worth it just for being where they are. I agree. Heck, I'd run an F1 race in Herbie the Love Bug if I got the chance. Of course I'd push hard to get it at least converted into a Formula Vee by dawn (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Jun 22 2005, 03:03 PM
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#23
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Nothing says 'I love you.' like a box of Hydroshoks Group: Moderators Posts: 5,284 Joined: 23-December 03 From: Granbury, TX Member No.: 4 |
Clarification:
Reasons behind they took a "hard line". I realize they are in it for them and not the sport. However, the sport is the vehicle that allows them to showcase themselves. It was suicide ... |
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Jun 22 2005, 06:10 PM
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#24
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Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 166 Joined: 25-December 03 From: nYc Member No.: 39 |
QUOTE (trackbird @ Jun 22 2005, 10:52) It's hard to be friendly with millions of dollars involved. Exactly. Ferrari did what they had to do. Frank Williams thought so. |
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Jun 22 2005, 06:56 PM
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#25
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Senior Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 5,226 Joined: 24-December 03 From: Danville, CA, USA Member No.: 27 |
....that IS the problem...
EVERYONE did what "they had to"...or, in other words what was best FOR THEM... A. Michelin pulled the cars because it was no win for THEM...i.e. someone getting hurt, or them running at 75% and looking more stupid than they already did. B. Ferrari didn't back down because it didn't suit THIER needs...for a team that has had SO MUCH FREAKING success the past few years, do they really need this kind of artificial help???? C. The FIA did what was best to "preserve" their power over the teams and control of the sport. D. Eclstone did what was best for his continued existance on this planet and left town as fast as he could... EVERYONE looking out for #1....the new "corporate" way of racing...NICE! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) And NO ONE looking out for the typical fan....as usual....so sad..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) |
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Jun 22 2005, 07:33 PM
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#26
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Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 166 Joined: 25-December 03 From: nYc Member No.: 39 |
QUOTE EVERYONE did what "they had to"...or, in other words what was best FOR THEM... Agreed. And again, I personally had no problem with Ferrari vetoing (if they did) the chicane and running the race. It's the Michelin teams (and Michelin, of course) that I have problems with "doing what's best for them". Yes, drivers safety's at stake. But, they really could've been out there on the track, safely, somehow... If FIA did something to accomodate Michelin, then they're gonna owe Bridgestone a favor in the future... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) |
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Jun 22 2005, 10:08 PM
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#27
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Chapter 11 Racing Group: Advanced Members Posts: 1,166 Joined: 15-February 04 From: Houston, Republic of Texas Member No.: 207 |
I disagree with being able to add a chicane to the course. It is dangerous and adds liability. If you were Ferrari and you were paying Shumaker that kind of money would you want the additional risk of him getting injured from an added chicane?
My solution would have been to have *all* the cars run on Bridgestone. FIA is already talking about 1 supplier, so what's the big deal with that? If Michelin didn't like that it's tough, they didn't bring a safe tire. |
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Jun 23 2005, 12:22 AM
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#28
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Senior Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 5,226 Joined: 24-December 03 From: Danville, CA, USA Member No.: 27 |
QUOTE (35th_Anniversary_AS_Camaro_SS @ Jun 22 2005, 16:08) I disagree with being able to add a chicane to the course. It is dangerous and adds liability. If you were Ferrari and you were paying Shumaker that kind of money would you want the additional risk of him getting injured from an added chicane? My solution would have been to have *all* the cars run on Bridgestone. FIA is already talking about 1 supplier, so what's the big deal with that? If Michelin didn't like that it's tough, they didn't bring a safe tire. ...this probably would have been a good compromise, but my guess that Bridgestone....who was prepared to support 6 cars....could NEVER have supplied all the teams with tires..... And for the record...I don't disagree with Ferrari running the race if that was what "had" to happen and no compromise was reached....basically what DID happen.....what I DO have a problem with Ferrari is if they were a BARRIER to working things out as it now seems as if they were..... If THAT is true....I can only HOPE that their crappy cars continue to underperform for YEARS to come....just like they did BEFORE King Schumacher..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) |
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Jun 23 2005, 12:36 AM
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#29
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Seeking round tuits Group: Advanced Members Posts: 5,522 Joined: 24-December 03 From: Kentucky Member No.: 33 |
QUOTE (mitchntx @ Jun 22 2005, 10:03) I realize they are in it for them and not the sport. However, the sport is the vehicle that allows them to showcase themselves. It was suicide ... Well put. |
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Jun 23 2005, 03:40 AM
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#30
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Advanced Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 410 Joined: 24-December 03 From: Kissimmee/Orlando, FL Member No.: 25 |
QUOTE (35th_Anniversary_AS_Camaro_SS @ Jun 22 2005, 16:08) I disagree with being able to add a chicane to the course. It is dangerous and adds liability. If you were Ferrari and you were paying Shumaker that kind of money would you want the additional risk of him getting injured from an added chicane? FWIW its been done before. Case in point the Belgian GP of 94'. They (the FIA) stuck a chicane halfway up Eau Rouge to "slow the cars down" after Senna's death. |
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Jun 23 2005, 05:54 AM
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#31
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Senior Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 5,226 Joined: 24-December 03 From: Danville, CA, USA Member No.: 27 |
QUOTE (Soma07 @ Jun 22 2005, 21:40) QUOTE (35th_Anniversary_AS_Camaro_SS @ Jun 22 2005, 16:08) I disagree with being able to add a chicane to the course. It is dangerous and adds liability. If you were Ferrari and you were paying Shumaker that kind of money would you want the additional risk of him getting injured from an added chicane? FWIW its been done before. Case in point the Belgian GP of 94'. They (the FIA) stuck a chicane halfway up Eau Rouge to "slow the cars down" after Senna's death. ...DOH!.....now look what you have done....taken away some of the FIA/Eclstone/Ferrari fans arguments..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) |
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Jun 23 2005, 11:33 AM
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#32
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Nothing says 'I love you.' like a box of Hydroshoks Group: Moderators Posts: 5,284 Joined: 23-December 03 From: Granbury, TX Member No.: 4 |
QUOTE (Soma07 @ Jun 22 2005, 21:40) QUOTE (35th_Anniversary_AS_Camaro_SS @ Jun 22 2005, 16:08) I disagree with being able to add a chicane to the course. It is dangerous and adds liability. If you were Ferrari and you were paying Shumaker that kind of money would you want the additional risk of him getting injured from an added chicane? FWIW its been done before. Case in point the Belgian GP of 94'. They (the FIA) stuck a chicane halfway up Eau Rouge to "slow the cars down" after Senna's death. If I recall, Senna's death occured on an early practice day. The chicane was built in time for all teams to learn the new curse configuration. It wasn't erected 2 hours before grid and in mid-turn, rather on a straight section with plenty of run-off. I'm not siding with either side. I am saying that we are hearing what either side WANTS us to hear. |
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Jun 23 2005, 01:10 PM
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#33
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Seeking round tuits Group: Advanced Members Posts: 5,522 Joined: 24-December 03 From: Kentucky Member No.: 33 |
The chicane might have been erected two hours before, but if I recall correctly they started working on the design the night before. Adding a chicane to slow a dangerous section is hardly new, either. In other words, I'm confident that some bright guys would (and probably did) work all night to design it just in case.
Heck, add a morning practice session, and give the fans a bonus instead of screwing them. Allow them to add a specific fuel allowance to cover practice, or not. |
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Jun 23 2005, 01:13 PM
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#34
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Nothing says 'I love you.' like a box of Hydroshoks Group: Moderators Posts: 5,284 Joined: 23-December 03 From: Granbury, TX Member No.: 4 |
That would've been a good thing to do ...
In too many places, though, egos, rather than logic, dictate decision. |
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Jun 23 2005, 01:13 PM
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#35
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Seeking round tuits Group: Advanced Members Posts: 5,522 Joined: 24-December 03 From: Kentucky Member No.: 33 |
QUOTE (mitchntx @ Jun 22 2005, 09:28) We're not talking about a Sunday regional AX event here. Maybe you're on to something there, Mitch. Give'em a Chicago box. |
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Jun 23 2005, 01:16 PM
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#36
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Advanced Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 951 Joined: 2-January 04 From: Austin, TX Member No.: 88 |
QUOTE (35th_Anniversary_AS_Camaro_SS @ Jun 22 2005, 16:08) My solution would have been to have *all* the cars run on Bridgestone. FIA is already talking about 1 supplier, so what's the big deal with that? I think this would be one of the least feasable options for the USGP. These aren't just any ol' tirerack sourced race tire or home modified track car. The cars are setup specificially for a specific tire and from manufacturer to manufactuer the setups required for each, I imagine, would be notably different. |
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Jun 23 2005, 02:27 PM
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#37
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Advanced Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 410 Joined: 24-December 03 From: Kissimmee/Orlando, FL Member No.: 25 |
QUOTE (mitchntx @ Jun 23 2005, 05:33) If I recall, Senna's death occured on an early practice day. The chicane was built in time for all teams to learn the new curse configuration. It wasn't erected 2 hours before grid and in mid-turn, rather on a straight section with plenty of run-off. I'm not siding with either side. I am saying that we are hearing what either side WANTS us to hear. Actually he died about 10 laps into the San Marino GP earlier that year. Anyhow I believe Stoddart said Michelin was working with the teams to design the chicane so that it would be safe for the drivers. They also proposed giving them 3 practice laps in the morning for them to used to it. However, Toyota responded stating that Truli's car didn't have enough fuel for 3 laps (no wonder he got pole). Not that it mattered anyways... No F1 isn't autocrossing but F1 drivers aren't your average autocrosser either. They're supposed to be the best of the best, if they can go to a new circut and learn it within a handful of laps I would think an extra chicane would be no big deal for them. FWIW I am not really siding with anyone either. I'm just trying to show that its not as simple as blaming Michlein or the FIA, both parties had a hand in what happened Sunday. |
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Jun 23 2005, 03:07 PM
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#38
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Nothing says 'I love you.' like a box of Hydroshoks Group: Moderators Posts: 5,284 Joined: 23-December 03 From: Granbury, TX Member No.: 4 |
QUOTE (Soma07 @ Jun 23 2005, 08:27) its not as simple as blaming Michlein or the FIA, both parties had a hand in what happened Sunday. Can't argue with that ... |
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Jun 23 2005, 06:49 PM
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#39
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Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 166 Joined: 25-December 03 From: nYc Member No.: 39 |
On a side note, the only bright thing that happened is seeing Monteiro on the podium. To me personally, that genuine smile and excitement out of him was all good, despite the circumstances. It made me smile seeing him all happy and excited.
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Jun 23 2005, 09:30 PM
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#40
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Senior Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 5,226 Joined: 24-December 03 From: Danville, CA, USA Member No.: 27 |
QUOTE (beuke23 @ Jun 23 2005, 12:49) On a side note, the only bright thing that happened is seeing Monteiro on the podium. To me personally, that genuine smile and excitement out of him was all good, despite the circumstances. It made me smile seeing him all happy and excited. I agree! Imagine THAT! People acting as if THEY ENJOYED racing.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) |
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