Everyone likes a good "Conspiracy Theory", Is big time racing wrecking for dollars? Options

[mitchntx]

After watching a some of the coverage of the Daytona 500 this weekend and hearing a lot of discussion about the costs associated with feilding a competitive team and hearing the gnashing of teeth surrounding the dwindling sponsorships and hearing the concerns about enough cars to field a full grid and seeing Waltrip's wild tumble and seeing that tumble re-played on network after network after network ....

I began to wonder ....

Because it's all about the number of minutes a specific sponsor get's it's name on TV, when will a driver, who is an "also ran", purposely wreck his car, just get gleen a few extra minutes of sponsor coverage?

Is it cost effective to spend a $100,000 race car in order to keep a $10 million sponsor?

NAPA received tons of exposure from networks to local TV stations replaying his wreck. I would hate to see that happen on purpose, but ... it has to be there in someone's mind ...

[Chris 96 WS6]

I don't think Mikey would ever go along with such a thing. NAPA was gauranteed to get plenty of camera time anyway considering he's won 2 of the previous 3 500's. The accident was the result of 2 rookies running right beside him and one of them screwed up.

[trackbird]

Guess I don't watch enough TV. I didn't see it.....

[Absolut Speed]

You certainly wonder how long the cycle can go on with sponsors shelling out so much money, and in increasing amounts. It can't be too long before they price themselves out if something's not done. Ask the NHL what it's like to price yourself out of the market.

[mitchntx]

Don't get me wrong, Chris. I didn't mean to imply that Mikey would take a header.

But you have to admit ... it's an intriguing twist ....

[trackbird]

I'm sure the sponsors don't mind much....

[AllZWay]

Yep... I don't think sponsors really care "HOW" they get the exposure as long as they get the exposure equal to the amount of money spent.

Thus.... The dwindling sponsors in Nascar are direct result of "NOT" getting the appropriate exposure for the money spent.

I think the new end of season rules only make the Sponsorship even more concerned about end of the season exposure.

[rmackintosh]

......well.....I don't put much stock at all in NASCAR...I see them as the downfall of American racing.....

NASCAR is to racing as the WWF/WWE is to the sport of wrestling....

The France boys even admitted it this year with their INSANITY....I mean new points system...."we are entertainment....."

Next thing you know there will be these crazy personalities and fights on pit road.....wait.....that already happens....

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Zimm]

Back when Jordan was running the 7-Up car (I think it was their first F1 season), the program in Montreal included an artist's picture of the 7-Up Jordan flying over top of a Ferrari after running into the back of it.

When asked if he was upset by the picture, Eddie Jordan said something like: absolutely not - any publicity is good publicity. Besides, he was thrilled that the artist thought his car was fast enough to hit the back of a Ferrari.

So ... from artist's imagination to the real world (well, the NASCAR world anyway)?

[Chris 96 WS6]

Fights and things...if you know your NASCAR history you know that sort of thing was common 20-30 years ago. Now it is not. Sponsors don't like their drivers getting suspended from races, and NASCAR cherishes its image more now than ever, so some of the wild antics that were part of the sport years ago have been replaced with politically correct stuff.

No driver today could be as aggressive as Dale Earnhardt was in his prime. Dale himself mellowed quite a bit over the years. But today you see guys like Harvick taking out Rudd last year and it is just not tolerated, it is a good way to miss a race, lose championship points, and have your team owner and sponsor mad at you PLUS earn retaliation on the track next week.

I guess what I lament about the sport is that it is so money driven now. The new points system is stupid an to me renders any championship earned under it totally incomparable to past championships.

I know most of you Road Racers probably don't like the sport, but I enjoy Nascar. maybe they are not the best talent in terms of turning left AND right out there, but there are a few that more than hold their own at the two road courses and at events like 24hrs of Daytona. The fact that guys like Boris Said and Robby Gordon cannot just walk in, sit down in a Cup car and dominate an oval track event suggest to me that great road racers do not automatically make good stock car racers, so it would seem to me that talent is relative to the venue.

I find the similarities between the Nextel Cup cars and our Fbodies to be more meaninful than say F1 cars, simply because they are running 2v per cyl cam-in block pushrod V8s, live rear axles, etc. No they are not "stock" cars anymore, that is just a term for the type of racing. More importantly, it is the personalities that drive Nascar. Yes, I guess that's sort of like WWE, but I think personalities drive every sport. Who was a Bulls fan but not a Jordan fan? Who was a Yankees fan but had no favorite players?

As for the wrecks vis a vis sponsor exposure. The "new" TV contract with NBC and Fox has created some tough things I don't care for. Basically they are trying to sell everything they can get their hands on. Now you have races with "presenting" sponors, like the Cracker Barrell 500 presented by Kraft Foods. How are they presenting anything? Seems to me NASCAR is the one putting on the presentation. Just stupid stuff like that, or how they would not allow ESPN to report trackside because only TNT and FOX were allowed magazine-type race show coverage. Now that RPM tonight is gone ESPN is allowed back in instead of getting driver interviews in the parking lot.

Sponsorships are tight because its too expensive to justify to companies that can't draw the line between the sponsorship and increased revenue. You're going to give $12M to a team, you want to see at least $20M in increased revenue. Certain products/sponsors are not going to be able to generate that kind of crossover from the race car to the grocery store or whatever. I think Bud has more than made their money from Dale Jr, but how has CAT benefitted from the #22 sponsorship? Its a little harder to quantify for certain sponsors I think.

[felton316]

$100,000 investment for a $10 million dollar return........ I'd do it. Didn't see what happen, so I can't say if he did it on purpose though.

[Chris 96 WS6]

There is a marketing firm that spends all week each week reviewing every second of footage from the NASCAR races in all three series, they compile a list of sponsors and total airtime exposure whether through seeing the car on screen, driver mentions of the name, broadcast crew mentions, etc. They provide a matrix that shows the sponsors what kind of coverage they get for their dollars.

The flaw in Mitch's theory is that the wreck happened on lap 72. Yeh it took better part of a 1/2 hour to get the car righted, get Waltrip out of it, etc. But after that the car got hauled off and there was no NAPA presence on the track the rest of the race.

I think you'd find a lot of the sponsors of the 4-10th place cars were not too happy that the broadcasters spent 99% of the last 50 laps focused on the leaders.

[ESPCamaro]

Nascar IS american racing. Think what you wan't. Take away Nascar and keep all the road racing series alive and there is NO American racing.

Your only hope was Cart. Which in the early 90's was GREAT. I watched every race. Through a 5-7 year stretch. But Tony George ruined that...AND the greatest race in the world.

There is one simple reason why there is sponsorship issues in the cup series. Because sponsors DO EXPECT RESULTS. Guys who don't have a sponsor don't produce results. Period.

Budweiser, Napa, Home Depot, Dupont, Lowes....how much money do you think it would take for another company to buy sponsorship into those teams? ALOT. Because those sponsors are not going to give up the exposure they have by being part of a team that runs at the front of the pack, and consisantly produces results.

Some of those guys (although better drivers than me I'm sure) DON'T NEED SPONSORS. Derrick Cope is a perfect example. Why in the world he is even allowed to have a Nascar license is beyond me.

Casey Mears, Foyt, John Andretti, and the list could go on. It SHOULD be hard to get a sponsor on board for some of these guys.


I think Nascar is a bunch of good old boys racing the AMERICAN way (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


Dale Jr is the MAN!

[Chris 96 WS6]

Great post Lonnie. Dead on about Cope....wrecks w/in the first 10 laps every event. His '90 Daytona 500 win was a mere fluke (Earnhardt Curse gave him the win)...he was never very good.

Go #8!

[ESPCamaro]

Yeah, the Cope's 500 win was about a big a fluke as ANY race win I've EVER seen.

About the ONLY thing done to even remotely deserve the win, was to still be running at the end.
Not only a run of bad luck for Big E, but almost every dang car in the feild was taken out in the "big one" that happens every restrictor plate race.


I've never seen so much stupid race driving in a pro series as the 500 this year. Even Mark Martin put on a nice dumb a$$ move. Don't like him anyway (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

[rmackintosh]

Nascar IS american racing.

UNFORTUNATELY....I agree with you....It just happens to be the MOST BORING FORM OF RACING EVER DEVISED! Crap.....If I wanna see millions of cars jammed together 4-5 wide within inches of each others bumpers all while making MINIMAL steering input....I just look to my daily commute! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Your assesment of CART/IRL is mostly true as well....they killed each other.....too bad...it is unfortunate that NASCAR has been so succesful...cause' now the France family (with Grand-Am) thinks they can do for sports car racing what they did for stock car racing......NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

Did anyone see the DEATH of the Daytona 24 Hours? BORING homologated "prototype" cars that are all the same, look the same, and perform the same....sound like some other type of "American Racing"....racing is not ALWAYS meant to be racing equally preped boxes with flat bodywork so we can put the corporate logos up top for all to see.

Somebody STOP the France family NOW PLEASE!

....these opinions are not affiliated in any way with the management of this board.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Chris 96 WS6]

UNFORTUNATELY....I agree with you....It just happens to be the MOST BORING FORM OF RACING EVER DEVISED! Crap.....If I wanna see millions of cars jammed together 4-5 wide within inches of each others bumpers all while making MINIMAL steering input....I just look to my daily commute! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Good thing for us Daytona/Talladega type racing is only 4 races out of 36 on the Cup schedule.

However, "millions of cars Jammed together 4-5 wide within inches of each other all while making" big steering input, as in BRISTOL NIGHT RACE, is unbelievably entertaining.

[trackbird]

Did anyone see the DEATH of the Daytona 24 Hours?

I was there this year, rain and all. I can now say I went (got some good photos though).

I actually enjoyed the vintage race as much as anything.....go figure...

[ESPCamaro]

Randy, I'm not trying to argue with you. Just seeing if you could see things from a Nascar fans perspective.

Like Chris said, plate races are VERY few compared to other races.
Personally I don't care for plate races. But since I'm a fan of Jr and Mikey, I gotta watch em' since they do so well.

Also like Chris said, what may help to change your view, is to stay home one Saturday night for a Bristol or Charlotte race. These are truely fun races to watch. Better yet would be to watch the Winston at Charlotte. Or whatever it may be called now!?

Admittedly I would like to see about 2 more road races on the schedule. But too many of the teams and drivers would complain.
Another point that was already made, but worth bringing up again, road racers have tried their luck in Nascar. They struggle about as bad or worse than Nascar guys who try to road race. Cars/drivers/teams are so competitive, and therefore specialized at what they do, that this is the only thing anyone could expect.

[mitchntx]

One counter point is that the race lasted another 2 hours after Waltrip's wreck. Yet the twirling NAPA logo was on every sports show, both local and national for the rest of the day. It seems the 97 car was running WITH the top 5 almost the rest of the way. Funny how he never got mentioned much, especially after the race.

But Chris, let's get past the Waltrip/NAPA analogy.

I only brought up the wreck as an example of, if it were a so-so driver with an "on the fence" sponsor, how a driver/team could conspire to get sponsor air time they wouldn't have normally gotten because of where/how they were running at the time.

I'm also not saying that it's actually happening ... but, it is an intriguing theory.

The theory being that race teams are clammering for a dwindling pile of money in any genre of racing. At some point, it is possible, that someone could do something desperate in order to stay in the game.

Just a theory ...