From Mr GM himself, Rick Wagoner's view on GM Options

[00 SS]

Yes, the old chevelles and Nova's were mostly grocery getters, but they had muscle car versions.

Actually, those 'muscle car versions', were the identical car with a big-block. As someone stated above, that won't fly in today's market. Cars should turn and stop too...

Of course cars should turn and stop, but that is no different for the base car. Also, I was not suggesting dropping a big block in Malibu as a fix for todays cars. But I was suggesting using the basic concept of a inexpensive base model and hi performance version for a few extra bucks.

GM has good engines that make good power, the biggest deterent to performance and milage in most of their cars seems to be weight. Can someone help me understand why the Solstice needs to weigh about 2800 pounds? Particularly when the Miata is considerably lighter. Weight is not just GM's problem, Ford and DCX have the same issue. It seems that the imports have started to gain weight recently as well.

Some one mentioned the option "bundles" earlier. They annoy me to no end as well. They also contribute to the weight. If they would simply let you order eqach option individually like they used to, more people might be able to get the car they actually want. Oh wait, isn't that the point?

[BigEnos]

Howdy,

This is an area where the import guys are _terrible_ in comparison to domestics... For instance, on a Honda Civic there are something like four different models, and you get to choose the interior and exterior colors. That's it. Toyota is a little better, but still most of their options are grouped.

Want an external temp display? You gotta buy an EX. You can't get it on an LX, no matter how much you'd like to.

In some ways, as a consumer, this makes the process easier btw. For me, I'd rather be able to pick and choose individual options, but "joe carbuyer" seems to want things simple.

And this is an area where the domestics could have an edge, if they'd start building cars people actually wanted.

Somewhat unrelated to that... How are Dodge & Ford doing in comparison to GM? Dodge seems to have vehicles designed by people that "get it" by and large... No, they don't have a Neon for someone like me (wants good gas mileage & comfort), but otherwise they're pretty with it... Is that translating into financial health for them?

Btw, by and large most import cars cost more than most domestics in the same categories... How in the heck does that match up to "Americans will buy anything if the price is right, made in the USA or not"? I think the real problem is that right now Joe Public has it firmly in their heads that domestic cars are of an inferior quality. The only way that's gonna change is if domestic manufacters start building cars that are _better_ than the imports... Either better in specification for the same price, equal in specification for less price, etc. And they'll need to do it for a while before perceptions will shift enough to matter.

Mark

Packaging options is something the Japanese nearly invented. It's done to streamline assembly lines. If you only have 4 variations of a car to build your life as an assembly line worker and the engineers that configure the lines much easier. If all options are line-item, then you are going to have many variations of Civic to deal with and assembly line processes are going to be much more complicated.

I have to disagree with you on your comment
"The only way that's gonna change is if domestic manufacters start building cars that are _better_ than the imports... Either better in specification for the same price, equal in specification for less price, etc. "

I believe that this is a unicorn that (most of) the US auto industry has been chasing for too long now. Specifications are just the minimal requirement. If you want someone to come to your showroom you need a car that has original thinking, too. The Japanese have the market cornered on making car-appliances, and as hard as we try just copying specs and making look-alikes won't bring people in unless the Japanese begin to falter (not gonna happen any time soon). This is why focus groups and reverse engineering are not the be-all end-all of car design. Most people are unimaginative and just making your new car as good as their current one will never be enough. you'll always be behind the curve.

Cars like the the Cadillacs, the 300C and to a lesser extent the Charger have all sold well because they market to the folks who still *want* an exciting car that is also a competitive package. PT Cruiser, like it or not, was the same thing. All the upside of the Japanese competition with good looks/great features and innovative design. All American cars need to be created with this kind of original thinking. Until they are, the foot traffic just won't be enough for any meaningful rebound to take place.

[ESPCamaro]

Part of the problem is that the unions have a hold of a labor force that has HUGE benefits far and away what other folks with the same type laborer non unionized jobs have.

That's not to say that unions are bad. I work as a blue collor worker, and I fully respect what they have done in the country for these types of jobs. Changes for the better even in non union labor positions. Wages, benefits, worker rights. They did help the blue collor worker 'in the day'

Now they have worked their members into greedy semi un-productive workers without a company conscious outlook on production. Which directly effects quality production.

If one of the guys I work with to do something that has to be done, something that either directly effects quality or production, he will damn sure do it. In a union shop he may not 'have' to.
So not only are laborers very high paid, I fully beleive that their performance is sub-par.
Hell cruise the MI section of CZ28.com and bring this up. Most of those guys are from Flint or Detroit.

If I install an engine in a boat for $xx,xxx/year why should a union laborer doing the same job on a car make $30,000 more?


And FWIW my company is and exception in non union labor in that money does buy quality. The gap from union to non union labor is usually much larger.

This post has been edited by ESPCamaro: Dec 7 2005, 09:59 PM