[Crazy Canuck]

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rant2.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rant.gif)
and especially this model: http://www.cx4storm.com/

for those that wounder why:
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/features...ting/index.html

my wife works 1 street corner away, and sometimes goes for lunch there... that day, she didn't... Thank God !

[CJ-TA]

Although I agree with you about the guns (I really dislike them as well)... in this case, it was the person who went nuts, not necessarily the gun.

[AllZWay]

People that want to kill don't have to have a gun to accomplish their goal.

It easy to blame the gun, but the problem is the criminal holding it.

[BigEnos]

I could think of 5 or 6 things to say to support my point on this subject, but the reality is it won't change anyone's mind. It's horrible when someone steps far outside the boundaries of society and commits such horrible crimes.

So far so good, but I'm sure of this: A heated discussion about gun rights, religion, abortion, etc. just can't end well. This forum is for a group of individuals to discuss something we all enjoy. Lets keep the hot-button topic discussions and politics out of it, please.

Eugenio, I'm glad your wife is safe and was lucky enough to avoid this situation.

[firehawkclone]

I'm so glad your wife wasn't harmed in anyway Eugenio.

There is no easy or correct answer to gun control, or the type of people that go off and do horrible things like this.

[Crazy Canuck]

Although I agree with you about the guns (I really dislike them as well)... in this case, it was the person who went nuts, not necessarily the gun.

i know... still don't like guns.

People that want to kill don't have to have a gun to accomplish their goal.

It easy to blame the gun, but the problem is the criminal holding it.

people that kill others and then turn the gun on them should do the opposite... turn the gun on them, kill them and then kill the others... pretty simple and better for everyone.

i don't want to start a gun control political debate... just wanted to point out i don't feel confortable with guns and also share the crazy events that happened here. :S
1989 was really bad when a freak entered University of Montreal and kidnapped a whole class and killed all the woman, then himself.
1992 was a university teacher that was fired (freak) then went back and killed his ex-work colleagues.
now this (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rant.gif)
at least the police force acted fast and was able to control the situation quite fast with not too many deaths... it's sad, but it could have been much worse.
damm freaks

Also, thinking on those events, and events caused by terrorism, since 11-sept was so close... just makes me wounder how the canadian public view would have changed if it was a terrorist attack instead of a freak trying to kill students... just curious.

[bubba353z]

Eugenio - glad to hear your wife is OK.

Guns are a problem, but only because it is too easy and cheap for the wrong persons to get ahold of them. I grew up with guns, and I never killed anyone.

The real problem is the lack of respect for human life. These low life thugs think that if someone "disses" them, that gives them a right to shoot them. Or a robber figures that dead people can't testify against me, so they shoot a clerk or bank teller.

You can debate culture or socio-economics all you want - but the bottom line is that the gun is not the killer, the person pulling the trigger is.

[AllZWay]

people that kill others and then turn the gun on them should do the opposite... turn the gun on them, kill them and then kill the others... pretty simple and better for everyone.

I agree... I wish losers like this would simply kill themselves.

BTW.. I too am very glad your wife is fine.

[slowTA]

It is frightening to be near or affected by an event like this. However the same thing can be said for alcohol, lawn and garden equipment, power and hand tools, appliances, utensils, sporting goods, and of course... cars.

[v7guy]

it's really unfortunate, but as long as human beings exsist I suspect we will see them trying to kill each other, be it with bombs, guns, baseball bats, or the rock on the ground.

I'm glad to hear your wife is ok.

This post has been edited by v7guy: Sep 15 2006, 07:50 PM

[jensend]

While I don't own any guns, I have to say that the core issue in things such as this have little or nothing to do with guns. People in many societies seem to be finding it increasingly difficult to cope with the challenges, stresses, and disappointments that are a large part of the fabric of modern life. Just consider the number and widespread use of prescription drugs that are meant to address getting through daily life. As recently as 20 years ago, the notion that vast numbers of people would need sleep aids, anti-depressants, digestive aids, etc. would have been thought absurd. Today, drug companies are producing products that seem to treat people's inabilties to cope from childhood to the grave. I'm not criticising the people who need the help, or those who provide it, but it seems to me that this is a telling commentary on the extent to which people have been pushed to, and beyond their limits by daily living and its pressures. Someone once said, "Beyond one's limits is a place no one ever wants to be."

Considering the countless number of overstyressed individuals we see all around us every day, it is, sadly, less than surprising that some individuals lose the ability to function rationally and responsibly. For these people, escape, or release, or random revenge is all that consumes them. The method they choose is just the means not the cause of their actions. Some use guns, some knives, others run down random pedestrians or drown their children. My point is, that we need to address the underlying and universal pressures in our approaches to living that put so many in such extremes. Considering the number of overstressed, jobless, homeless, individuals, we are fortunate that such horrors aren't more commonplace.

Lastly, I am happy to hear that Eugenio's wife is safe.

[Crazy Canuck]

Eugenio - glad to hear your wife is OK.

Guns are a problem, but only because it is too easy and cheap for the wrong persons to get ahold of them. I grew up with guns, and I never killed anyone.

The real problem is the lack of respect for human life. These low life thugs think that if someone "disses" them, that gives them a right to shoot them. Or a robber figures that dead people can't testify against me, so they shoot a clerk or bank teller.

You can debate culture or socio-economics all you want - but the bottom line is that the gun is not the killer, the person pulling the trigger is.

couldn't agree more... i still can't imagine how someone is able to pull a trigger on someone else, unless it's to save others lives, like a cop shooting that bastard, for example... even then, one is taking someone else's life away.
the lack of respect PERIOD is a big problem in our society, not only towards life, towards others and even property.

[Crazy Canuck]

btw, i really appreciate the good words on behalf of my wife being ok... appreciated.

[robz71lm7]

(IMG:http://www.a-human-right.com/somesee2_s.jpg)


They'd do it with pipe bombs, knives (there are many countries looking to ban steak knives), etc. Your reason for hating firearms is my reason for owning them. The right to self-defense is born within us regardless of whether or not a sheet of paper or judge says so. It's really not a liberal or conservative, majority or minority issue at all. I know white, black, conservative, liberal and gay people that carry. It's a basic human right.

In the USA DC has the highest murder rate yet guns are illegal to own there. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

couldn't agree more... i still can't imagine how someone is able to pull a trigger on someone else, unless it's to save others lives, like a cop shooting that bastard, for example... even then, one is taking someone else's life away.
the lack of respect PERIOD is a big problem in our society, not only towards life, towards others and even property.

You mention cops but it may interest you to know they often times have a higher percentage of negligent discharges than armed citizens here in the US.

I'll respectfully disagree with you when it comes to firearms. There are much bigger issues at work here. I carry a .45 every single day with me where ever I go (but NOT at work and school). It's because I have a great respect for life and would do anything to protect my family and loved ones. It along with training, practice, and just plain common sense gives me a fighting chance.

http://www.a-human-right.com/

[sgarnett]

A friend's nephew was the victim of a whacko who believed that "God told him to come to Lexington and kill someone". Luckily the nephew survived, though he was seriously injured. If the incident hadn't happened right in front of a fire station, he probably would not have lived.

There was another victim I know nothing about.

The whacko, a white guy from a small farming community several counties away, fled the scene and tried to hide in a poor urban black neighborhood. He was caught very quickly (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

He chose his victims randomly. He calmly set up the kill by feigning a mechanical car trouble and motioning them around him so he could get two with one shot. He waited until they had to stop for a traffic light.

Then he floored it from over a block away and rammed them. No guns were involved. The key ingrediant was the same as always: a homicidal whacko.

Nevertheless, Eugenio, you are just as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.

I have yet to find ANYthing that is truly black or white (and that includes the colors black and white). In fact, that is my yardstick for judging media coverage of anything, no matter how I feel about the topic. If they are not reporting contradictory information or pros and cons, it is a biased report.

[marka]

Howdy,

My primary issue with non-hunting weapons (which I define as any pistol, any gun that can carry more than three rounds, and (in some ways) any semi-auto) is that they easily enable the whacko guy to walk through a crowded place and take out a bunch of people.

Bombs (that work) aren't easy to make and their components are somewhat regulated. Vehicular homicide is difficult to pull off, particularly for more than one or two folks, someone with a knife is gonna have trouble killing more than one person (and that's harder than it is with a gun) before the other folks around are able to run away.

Etc. etc.

I grew up with guns. I like them. I like knowing how to use guns. However, I have to question if "guns are a cool hobby" should outweigh the issues involved with giving whackos easy access to >10 shot weapons designed to kill people.

And I don't put much weight into the whole "right to bear arms" crap. #1, a hunting weapon like I define above is still an "arm". The constitution doesn't meantion the right to bear 10+ shot semi-automatic pistols or AR-15s.

#2, if that were really a good motivation someone would've shot Bush by now.

:-)

Mark

[Shortcutsleeping]

And I don't put much weight into the whole "right to bear arms" crap.

Err....can we just stop this thread before it turns into a huge GUNS KILL PEOPLE vs PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE debate which has no bearing on our little car forum?

I'd like to respond to the above comment, but really, I'm not going to change Mark's view and he isn't going to change mine....and I'd imagine that everyone here is kinda set in their ways. Maybe we all could go back to discussing cars.

Costas
cars and such...

and the 'such' includes projective weapons

[sgarnett]

btw, i really appreciate the good words on behalf of my wife being ok... appreciated.

It's always sobering to be that close to any disaster. I hope she isn't too rattled.

[sgarnett]

Err....can we just stop this thread before it turns into a huge GUNS KILL PEOPLE vs PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE debate which has no bearing on our little car forum?

I'd like to respond to the above comment, but really, I'm not going to change Mark's view and he isn't going to change mine....and I'd imagine that everyone here is kinda set in their ways. Maybe we all could go back to discussing cars.

Not that you don't have a point, but I doubt if anyone could stumble into this thread expecting anything BUT disagreement.

Maybe we need to start using a NSFBP tag in the title for subjects like this - Not Safe For Blood Pressure.

Like I said though, nothing is black and white. Personally, I find great value in reading the opinions of people I don't agree with. I learn very little if I only read things that echo my own own thoughts. There's another side to everything.

For example, while I have a closet full of evidence of my leanings, I know a woman who is dangerously schizophrenic. She's been in and out of mental institutions all of her life. She had no trouble passing the background check for a pistol. The reason? She had never been involuntarily committed. I find that deeply disturbing.

The flip side?

After he retired, my father worked for a while at a jewely repair business in a bad neighborhood. Every employee carried a pistol. One day, one of his coworkers was changing a flat tire in the parking lot, when a man approached, picked up the lug wrench, and asked what there was to stop him from smashing the guy's skull and then taking his wallet. The pistol pointed at his forehead answered the question neatly, and he left with no blood shed by anyone.

And so on. There are endless examples on both sides, and we all need to be reminded that nothing is as simple as we would like to think.

This post has been edited by sgarnett: Sep 16 2006, 06:12 PM

[BigEnos]

And I don't put much weight into the whole "right to bear arms" crap.

Err....can we just stop this thread before it turns into a huge GUNS KILL PEOPLE vs PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE debate which has no bearing on our little car forum?

I'd like to respond to the above comment, but really, I'm not going to change Mark's view and he isn't going to change mine....and I'd imagine that everyone here is kinda set in their ways. Maybe we all could go back to discussing cars.

Costas
cars and such...

and the 'such' includes projective weapons

I tried, in vain apparently.

Costas, you going to the Big Show?