If you sold your car and had to buy a NON F-body what would it be. Think of working within your current budget.


I would like a late 80's BMW M3. With a 3.0 or 3.2 M3 engine. A Street Modified car.

With flares and 245/17's.


Or an E36 M3 for BSP. That one would depend on purchase price though.

I would go with the Vette.....I would climb as high up the year/model ladder as budget allowed....probably ending up with a several year old Z06!

Had a street BMW once....never again....BEAUTIFUL CAR......EXCELLENT FIT AND FINISH......HANDLED GREAT......little underpowered.....was in the shop 30% of the time I owned it......people will tell you I had a lemon....but when the BMW service manager.....tired of dealing with me said:

"Have you ever owned a BMW before?"

Me: "No"

BMW: "These are highly sophisticated, high performance machines....this kind of maintenance/problems is normal."

Me: " Get the P.O.S. fixed, I gotta trade it in on something else...."

I opted to change cars a few months ago. After 7 years of happy f-body ownership, I decided I wanted a dedicated track car, and bought a Radical SR3. It's a car who's only fault is the nut behind the wheel, which by comparison to the Camaro is satisfying and humbling. I've only had it on the track twice, and am still learning to drive it (aero downforce, huge g-forces, and big slicks are things I'm not used to) but it's an absolute blast.

Randy, who do you run with? I'm surprised I haven't met you before, but we probably have a lot of common connections - Alan Blaine, Julie Bergman, Nick Steel...

Dave

M3 (the above notwithstanding). My wife's car has been a BMW 525i for the last 4 years and I have not had a single problem with it. None.

Beyond that, I would probably buy a Mustang.

As much Corvette as I could afford. Just don't get that special feeling for foriegn cars, wouldn't own a Ford.
Love my bowties.

I'd go the direction that Dave did. Forget trying to make a street car into a track car. There are SO many compromises. I think the closest I would come to getting another street car and making it into a track car would be a Lotus Elise. I worked at Lotus in England when they launched that car and I tried chasing them around the test track for many laps. I was in an Opel Vectra at the time so it was hopeless, but fun none the less.

Mike....yeah, but ask Dave how much that little Radical set him back!...

I was looking at those a few years ago...but that is t BIG step up both in money, and time...to learn it, to work on it, and to tune it....THEY ARE SUPER WELL BUILT AND COOL THOUGH!

Dave....I have emailed you a few times building the Camaro....and Alan is ALWAYS trying to get me to a NCRRC event...I just never have the time/money to go to a second series...YOU NEED to bring that thing out to the SCCA and run that thing to the front....that is a lot of car for track days!

I enjoy my BMW ('85 535i), but what I REALLY want is a Holden HSV GTS 300. LS1, 6-speed, 400+hp, huge brakes, four doors for family duty as well as track duty. What more could you ask for? Unfortunately they are RHD, not available here, and hideously expensive.




But back to the real world. If I ever do sell my Firebird, what I'll be buying with the proceeds is nine race weekends in my Miata.

Dave, I still can't believe you got a Radical. You lucky dog....

The newest ZO6 I could afford! Pretty decent car for the track, and love the LS1/LS6

Gary

Pat, what about a CTS-V? I saw my first one on the road today, and once they make it into a V it's a good bit less ugly to me. Granted, it's a little heavy but it's plenty fast around the track and could give pretty much any BMW a serious run for their money on a road course. I'd say any car John Heinricy help set up is going to be a good car.

Randy, I'm sure a Radical is an expensive car, but I didn't mean I'd go with exactly that kind of car. There are some good ones to choose from that are within my price range if I sell my Firebird and get a 2nd job. I'd even consider a cheaper open wheel car.

I have less money in the Radical than I did the Camaro, but maybe that's just me. The Radical will set you back $50-60K, depending on options, so yeah, it's the high end for the sports racer class. But there's virtually no "mods" to make, just get in and drive. So I'm actually hoping it will cost the same, maybe even a bit less to run than the Camaro did. Brakes will last far longer, tires maybe the same. But there's an engine refresh that needs to be done periodically - a bit of a wild card.

For me the main reason to get it is to be able to work purely on my driving skills, with a car that's really made to be just right on the track. Well-balanced, no compromises. Well, I'm sure there's better, but at my level it appears to be no compromises.

Good to hear Alan's out preaching the NCRC story, Randy Next year racing for me will be through American Racing Club, the latest venture. So again, no SCCA for me I guess.

Dave

Spec RX7
Lotus Elise
Lotus/Caterham 7
Subaru WRX STI
GTO

No particular order

Dave,

Ah....yes the ARC....I am sure Alan has mentioned it to me. I wish you well in that endevour...I will watch and may try it....I never say never....

I have just "grown up" in the SCCA....been going to events since in diapers with my dad....

I understand what your group, and others, are trying to do....less beauracracy and more fun....and I agree with it to a point....I myself have been, at times, a VERY VOCAL member at SCCA board meetings and issues I thought were crap....so I know how much stuff you have to wade through some times. But things that other groups are trying such as "run what ya brung" groups and even some of the more structured NASA stuff to me seems a little too nebulous to me....probably haven't spent enough time to research it, and besides....I have a family in the SCCA....LONGSTANDING friends and relationships that make the racing better and more fun!

Good luck, and I will try and come by some time.

Thanks for the well-wishes, Randy, sounds like you'll have the inside scoop on how we're coming along...

And good luck with your SCCA race season next year too.

Dave

I havent done either rr or ax, but I would like to try in either a 90-94 240sx or possibly a later 1.8 first gen miata. the mods I've doneto my car puts it into a higher group than i would be willing to drive with for my first time out Actually I'm hoping to maybe go as a ridealong with steve or some other atlanta area person next season.

if i HAD to... i would go with an early c4 and run it in prepared class... that would be a lot of fun to build

I would have to opt for a C5. Of course, I really feel that Nissan is going to follow history and put a turbo on their 350Z. That would be another viable option for me.

Lotus Elise or C6 Vette when they come out with the NEW Z06.

I've watched several races with spec Miata and Legends ...
Those classes appear to redline the fun-o-meter

What I don't like about the F-Body (or most street type cars I guess) is the expense of keeping the car on the track, reliable and semi competitive.

From what I can tell, a $10K investment and $3-5K car budget can put a Miata on the track for 4 or 5 races a year.

It might not be the front runner, but again, it would be fun!

Yeh, but who wants to be on the track only 4-5 times per year? That's what sponsors are for anyway.

I would have to say Z06. I'm just a chevy guy.
However a super cool totally re-engineered classic would be ultra cool. something like the Mark Stielo (?) '69 Camaros.
Some of these cars are just amazing http://www.pro-touring.com/featured_cars/p...featuremain.htm

I've figured my per-weekend expenses, including "everything" (hotel, food, consumables, entry fees, gas for race car and tow vehicle, etc.) to be $800 for Portland races (tow and hotel involved) and $600 for Seattle races (stay at home). That is running both SM and ITE classes. For 2004, I will probably only run SM to keep the costs down, and that will cut about $200 per weekend off.

Pretty darn cheap racing when you can go an entire 10-weekend season on 1.5 sets of tires, two sets of rotors and two sets of pads. Plus, because of the lower horsepower and general reliability of Miatas, we spend the vast majority of time between sessions sitting under the EZ-Ups eating sandwiches, rather than wrenching on the cars like most of my f-body racing buddies do (unfortunately).

A good mid-pack SM can be built for around $11K inclusive, given ~$3500 for a donor car (with hardtop) and providing most of the work is done by the owner. It's difficult to do it much cheaper than that.

In areas where it is available, I think CMC gives SM a run for its money, both in car costs and per-weekend costs. The key is the Toyo tires. They aren't the stickiest out there, but who cares when everybody runs the same tires and they last several weekends?

AI also uses Toyo tires. Car preparation is a little higher with AI than CMC, but I think for most people the consumables would be comparable.

My first choice would be a Z06....then maybe a M3.

For a fairly open class, like NASA SU1:
3rd gen RX7 with LS1/t56 (have a rolling chassis, but need to sell so I can race this year)

For more car specific classes:
C4 Corvette, for VVC or TCC (have a higly modified one now, also need to sell this one)
FFR Cobra (very fun car to race, had one and sold it)
Spec Miata, lots of people to race with

Others:
Any tube frame race car, to run SCCA GT2 - GT4, or a "stock car" which can run in a few different roadrace classes

My 62 year old mother has a 6-speed Miata 10AE car with Bilsteins, somebody's springs and front/rear strut tower braces. I LOVE the way that little car handles... I'm actually planning to sneak off with it to an AX sometime this summer.

I'm actually planning on going back to an LT1/4 C4 Vette for a race car. The Z06 is nice, but too much money for a dedicated track car, plus I really just don't care for the Z06 as much as the C4s. The Z06 is fast, but it feels more like a sport sedan, whereas the C4 feels like a "true" sports car. I'll probably end up going with a 96 LT4 Vette, and then putting another $5K or so in it for mods. Considering my 92 Vette would outrun most non-Z06 C5s around our local road course with only about $1k in suspension mods, I think I'll be very happy with an LT4 C4 that's maxed out on mods. As for a true racecar, I'd rather go with something like a Vette so that I have the option of driving it on the street occassionally.

AND, if you can find me a LT4, let me know!!!!

I'm thinking "built" instead of "bought". As in something like an S2000 powertrain into an old British roadster for DM or a bit more displacement and torque against a higher minimum weight for EM.

Norm

No doubt it'd be a Z06 for me. Probably an '01-'02 car.

I would probably go w/ a classis 70's muscle car and make it turn. Something like a Chevelle or a C2 C3 vette. That is if money wasent really an option. Building a Cobra kit car would be fun to.

For any of you legitimately considering a Z06, wait just a little longer until the C6 Z07 comes out. The Z06 values will plummet even more than they will now with the C6 showing up. In a year or so an early used Z06 would be very tempting.

yep....already planning for THAT deal....just gotta work on the wife!

If I was going to look at something like a Z06 again, I think I'd go with a 99-00 FRC (fixed roof coupe) instead. They are going REALLY cheap, and will just drop more when the C6 is out. I've actually seen a few FRCs go in the $22K range. Take the FRC, add some race wheels/tires in GS sizes (17x9.5" front/17x11" rear), add the 04 Z06 shocks, then do headers and a big cam and you'll blow stock Z06s off the track for substantially less money.

Of course, if I found a really good deal on a Z06 I wouldn't pass it up, but I think I'd want a 02-04 this time so it would have HUD. The nice thing about Z06s is they are so good out of the box. The only things you realy need are race tires, 04 Z06 shocks, and some better seats (the stock Z06/base C5 seats SUCK!!).

I really like the late 80's Street Mod Honda Civics too.

Slap in a Quaif, Integra GSR engine, 13x8's with 225 Hoosiers, and some weight reduction.

Some of the SM civics are at the weight minumum which is 1,900lbs I think.

Even with only 200hp it's gonna be pretty quick.

funny that you mention Civics. A friend and myself just today started messing w/ an '89 CRX. Yep, we're going to gut it and use it as a track/autocross car. Can't wait. It needs work. But it runs and drives well for less than $350 purchase price. I'm excitec about it. need to bone up on the best budget mods for those cars. It runs so well, I'm amazed.

For that price I would consider driving all the way to Texas from MI. That same car near me would be about $3,200 more than your purchase price.

Yep, same here.....in California....EVERYTHING costs more.....why do you think my race car came all the way from Kansas of all places....Toto.....awwww nevermind....

Used Z06. By the time I modded my F-body to be as fast in a straight line and brake almost as well, and to handle very well (for an F-body), I had paid for a Z06 but didn't get the handling.

The car didn't run when we got it but plugs, wires, and a push button start switch fixed that. gotta keep an eye out for the deals. Guy needed to get rid of it as was moving out of town. he didn't know how to fix it and it didn't run. When you show up w/ cash and a trailer to take it that second, its an easy buy. Oh, and for your cars in MI..... this one has ZERO rust!