Well, I received the blessing from my wife last weekend to go ahead and build a garage out back (it might have helped that I have two F-bodies in the garage at the moment and she's parking outside ) so I am trying to work out the details on design, size, layout et al.

I am thinking of doing a 24x30 with 12'foot walls to allow me enough height to install a 2 or 4-post lift down the road.

My thought is to put a 16x8 overhead door off to one side of the 30ft. wall which will face the house and then have a 3ft. steel service/entry door as well.

I want to have room to park two cars inside and still have a decent workshop space for working on engines, etc.

I do plan to insulate the entire building and will be running natural gas and electricity (110V only most likely) to it. Heat will be from a 90%+ efficiency furnace, i.e., forced air (my dad's in the business so I can get one cheap).
I also plan to finish the interior walls and ceiling with OSB as opposed to drywall just because it will be easier to live with, i.e., I can bang into it with tools, parts etc. without doing any real damage, and if I do manage to punch a hole in a sheet it will be easier to replace. Finally, I am anticipating putting a loft area in the trusses for storage with a pull-down ladder.

I am looking or any input with regard to the size (I know you can never build too large) based on the aforementioned parameters, will it be large enough?

Also, I would welcome any advice or input with regard to layout etc.

Thanks in advance for the input guys!

Get a 220v feed if possible. Air compressors, welders, metalworking lathes/mills, all will be happier down the line.

Well, you said it yourself....build it as big as you can. If necessary I would recommend sacrificing some garage goodies in lieu of size if it is a budget problem. You can get the goodies later. My garage is 36 x 45, and I grew out of it in 4 years. Also depends if you plan to stay put in your location for awhile, and how many cars you have to park in there. 36 wide is just barely wide enough to put two Fbodies in end to end.

If it were me, I would put in (2) 12 foot overhead doors, one being the entry point for the bay with the lift, the other being a multipurpose bay, or parking bay. I have (2) 12 footers, and a 14 foot wide by 11ft high sliding door on one end of my garage, but your size and utilization may not dictate this. I did this so the structure could house a car on a trailer, small RV, or a boat.

Be careful engineering the overhead doors. Depending on how you do your lift, they will be in the way when they are up. and you will definitely want them up except in the winter.

Consider a couple windows, and/or skylights to allow for natural light.

Suck it up and try to get the 220 volt done. Saves headaches later and gives you flexibility, its not that much more typically when you look at it from the marginal cost standpoint. Plus, when your wife finally kicks you out, you can put AC in there with the furnace and live out there...every mans dream!

Bock

Thanks for the input guys. I'll check into 220V, my Dad knows electrical better than I do. As for getting kicked out of the house, I did joke with her that I was going to put in a refrigerator full of beer, a urinal, internet access and satellite TV so that I would never need to leave the garage! LOL!!

Opinions ... we all have a different one.

I opted for a single, oversized door instead of 2 individual doors. I didn't want to have to work around the immovable framework that would seperate the 2 doors. Having one single, huge opening gives a lot of flexibility. I installed an 8x18 door and use an opener on it. I also paid extra for a "ceiling hugger" design. That means the door doesn't make a 90* turn, but rather a 45* turn and angles up towards the ceiling. More head room ...

My shop was 24x40 and became too small a year after I moved in. I added another 14' on the back side, giving me 24x54 ... and it's STILL too small.

Think about the prevailing winds in the summer and the winter and place doors and windows appropriately. In Texas, the North wind is a damned cold wind. I have no penetrations on the north side. But I do have garage doors on the west and east side to help ventilate with our SW breeze during the summer months. Also, I planted trees on the west side to provide evening shade to help keep the place cooler. I refuse to install air conditioning in the shop. I'm afraid I'd try and keep it cool! :eek:

Regardless of what your contractor says, overbuild the foundation. Rebar, footings, beams and piers are essential to keep the floor level.

You can never have too much insulation and something easy to clean and never paint for wall covering. I used R panel on the inside and it cleans very easy and never needs paint.

Before the foundation is poured, install a 6" conduit raceway in the foundation. With the price of copper, getting 50A service on the far wall can be damned expensive if you have to chase the perimeter.

Make sure your electric service company will install a separate meter base for the shop. Makes it easier to build to code than retrofitting your home service to accommodate an additional 100A of service.

Pour a pad to park a trailer. Less grass to mow is a bonus.

Electrical service and lighting ... overkill is just about right. Once you've planned for just enough, add 25%. Trust me.

Trusses are your friends ... anything over 10' is potential storage ... deciding on overhead storage access vs floor space is a no brainer ... it's why God made ladders.

Wood looks nice. It's more expensive and requires more maintenance than metal.

If I ever get the opportunity to build my own garage, I will seriously consider heating the floor. Winter months here leave my friends' floors cold for hours even with the heat on.

Just make sure you mark the floor so you don't drill into the heater when you bolt the lift down.

Consider trailer movement and parking when deciding the garage's location. Also, a floor drain might be a good idea so you can wash the car inside (if need be). Install LOTS of electrical outlets, including several on the wall just above the workbench.

Mitch's comments about location/orientation with respect to weather is very significant. I'm paying for that with a garage door that faces south, and the AZ sun is merciless, even with door insulation and roof vents. Maybe consider installing windows up high that you can open to provide a cross-breeze (might not be that big of a problem in Michigan).

A working kitchen sink in the garage has been super handy for cleaning car parts, body parts and not getting that mess inside the house.

Run some air compressor hoses through the walls with air outlets coming out the walls. nice not having to fight a air hose.

Tons of electrical outlets every where. Once again nice not to have to wrestle with a cord.

Is a basement a under the garage possible?

Somewhere in the planning try and add a separate (small) room for your compressor. That way, it is a little quieter inside the workspace when it kicks on.

Wow, lots of good ideas, thanks guys!

I can technically only build up to a three car garage according to the bylaws, which is pretty vague, but I don't want to run afoul of the neigborhood either. I will probably figure out how big I can go and push the envelope as much as I dare within my budget. I definitely plan on pouring a pad next to the garage to park my trailer on. I'm not going to bother with a floor drain since I won't need to wash a car in the garage. Running water would be nice, but we're on a well and it would be a pain to run water from the house out to the garage. Frankly if I need to wash parts I'll just run up to the garage on the house where I have running water and a floor drain. A basement under the garage would kill my budget, and probably wouldn't fly here anyway. I do plan on using probably a 6/12 pitch truss so I have some decent loft/storage space for stuff to keep it out of the garage.

This garage will be for car stuff only, the snowblower, lawn tractor et all would all stay in the attached garage on the house.

I do think I will probably do one overhead door, and will probably put in at least one window so I can throw a window air conditioner in if it get's really warm, but for the most part I can just open the overhead door if it gets really warm. For security and just for the neighbor's viewing pleasure I will keep the overhead door, service door and window all on the side of the garage facing my house, it will be easier to keep an eye on that way. I'll probably put a couple of motion detecting lights on the front corners of the garage to deter anybody from snooping around, plus there's a street light close by so the area is pretty well lit as it is. The nice thing is I will be able to drive right from my driveway across a short stretch of lawn to get to the garage so getting in and out will be easy with no real hills to drive up or over.

I may be putting the plan to build on hold however if a piece of property I'm looking at is priced right. It's 4-5 acres and would allow me to build a nice house and a substantially larger garage/shop later on, plus I could plan for all of it right up front at the construction phase so we'll see what happens. I plan on sorting it out one way or the other within the next month or so.

Again, thanks for all the input guys, it is very helpful!

Translation:

Lights that come on that make it easier for burglars to spot the good stuff.

You mean the lights that make it easier for me to draw a bead on them with my pistol!

since there was mention of garage door opening, that's 1 thing I made sure was done right when building the house.
here are some pix of it... note that the garage is 12'7" tall and the garage doors are 8' tall.
You can see that i put a commercial grade garage door opener too.
http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?sho...st&p=120475

I can say that a sink in the garage to clean up before you go inside is a must. Mostly from the perspective that the better half will not evoke her rage upon you when you touch anything after coming in the house.
220 is ideal, at some point you will wish you had it.

Having helped a buddy build his shop (28x32 with 13" interior height) last summer from doing the plans, the block work, the framing everything. Here are a few things to consider:

2x6 framing for the walls, 2x4's at 12' are at the sturctural limit. Plus the larger wall cavity will allow for better insulation.

100 amp service and definitely 220v.

Careful with truss selection, not all trusses are created equal and most generic trusses are not designed to carry the load imposed by a loft. Check into this. The cost of a properly spec'd truss could be more than it would cost to stick frame the roof, because of the small number of trusses you would be ordering? Do your homework.

5/8 inch plywood on the roof deck, even if code allows less. Especially important if using trusses on 24" centers.

1/2 inch ply on the walls if budget allows, otherwise OSB will do.

5-6 inch slab. Lift or no lift. The upfront cost is small compared to a cracked floor a couple years down the road.

As others have suggested, commercial grade door with 8' height. You won't be sorry.

Chris

Had another thought here.

Around where I live, if you put plumbing into the space you are building it will likely fall into into a different assessment category for tax purposes and permitting. Even a small sink...because it requires water supply, and a drainage system of some type with associated environmental impacts. It might as well be a 1 bedroom home.

My "garage" which has electric lighting, other equipment, and a lift, is only considered to be storage building and is assessed very low. You might want to check with friendly neighborhood tax assessor to see how what you are building will be assessed and what things will make it more vlauable in the eyes of the assessor.

Alot of times you can get your C.O. on a shell building, and then finish the interior later without the knowledge and the associated tax liability of the local tax man.

Just FYI.

Bock

This is good info and becareful when using the term slop sink, you don't want the locals thinking your dumping all kinds of car related fluids down the drain. I might use the approach of a small bathroom for convience sake, might not be as scary to the inspector. Also when running the electric, throw a couple extra conduits in the hole for phone, cable tv, computer etc. Wireless is good, but hardwire is even better, especially if the physical distance from the house to the shop is large. And when running the wire leave a "dead" run in the conduit just in case you need to fish extra wires in the future, the dead run will make that easier.

Chris

24 x 30 is the size of my garage. It is also 2 stories.
Consider a loft to accomodate extra storage and work space for the smaller stuff.
I have a 9 foot ceiling and have been looking at taking out some of the second floor floor to make room for a hoist.
I have 2 huge work/fab benches with another 4 foot long workbench.
Run a gas line to the garage for heating. Or consider a woodburning stove.
There are now corn cob burners in our neck of the woods for a more eco-friendly heating source.
I am able to fit, and work on three vehicles comfortably.

Thanks Todd. I'm thinking I will go 24x32 right now. I have my wife's cousin who is a builder working on getting me a quote right now less concrete/flatwork to see what I will be looking at in terms of materials cost. I will probably have someone set the posts and from there I will just build the garage myself with my father. I will definitely run gas to the garage, I plan on sticking a regular 90+ percent efficiency furnace in the corner with an exterior fresh air intake for the burner so I don't have to worry about fumes or using solvents inside. I figure once the entire building is insulated a furnace like that should heat the place up nice and toasty pretty quick during the winter.

This is all I use and it works great for those long, cold Texas winter days ...

Yeah, I'll bet it gets down to a brisk 40-50 degrees down there!

That's FREEZING! Glad I don't live in Texas!

It's nothing to burn 10-20 lbs of propane a year ...

I will be building a new shop one of these days as well. The county allows buildings to cover up to 10% of the property, so that give me a posible 6000 square feet for house and shop. The house foot print with garage is about 3500 square feet and I was hoping to build a 2000 square foot shop (40x50). I was planning on having a 12'x18' door and 8'x18' door plus a 3' man door. A minimum of 100a 220 electrical service, gas and water for a hose bib (or two). I'm hoping that will be a enough room, but who knows, I'm sure I'll find ways to fill it up and want more. I'm hoping 50" is enough to pull a truck and trailor in without unhooking. I might even have enough room to make the 12' tall door area a pass through with another 12' tall door on the back. If I end up with enough room to turn it around without driving over the leach field, I'll probably do it.

A storage loft over the 8' tall door area would also be a bonus.

I thought about in floor radiant heat, but what a mess if something ever broke.

The idea of running extra empty conduits is a really good one.

Howdy,



Is 24' the depth or the width? If its the depth... Consider growing that to 30' or 32' as well. 24' sounds like a lot of room and you can make it work, but by the time you put a bench or other tools in front of the car that 24' is down to 21', and with even a smaller car like a camaro you're talking 16' nose to tail. That leaves you a whopping 2.5' in front and behind the car to work on either end, which speaking from experience isn't a lot.

In terms of heat, consider electric as well. I dunno whats going on where you live, but heating oil and natural gas are through the roof where we are (Youngstown area). Electric is easy to install, no flame, etc. It does mean you'll need 220vac to the shop, but IMHO you'd be a bit daft to not do that anyway. Way too much shop equipment wants 220vac... Off hand, it'd include any decent air compressor, welder, lift, and some machine tools & tire machines. If you're dedicated enough to want a shop, you're going to want some of those...

I dunno if anyone makes electric radiant floor heat, but that (to me) would be a neat way to go.

Speaking of the floor, it won't cost you all that much more to go with thicker than the standard 4" or whatever it is residential garage floor. I'd want at least 6", maybe 8", with high strength concrete & mesh. This is one of those things where its pretty cheap to overbuild it initially and really damned expensive if you need more later on.

I'd also have more natural light, as long as you don't have theft concerns. Decent windows on the outside can also make the building look nicer.

If you go with a single door, make the door wider than 16' if you plan on pulling two cars in side by side. 16' is pretty tight even on a residential garage, let alone something where you're going to need to work around each of the cars. 18' minimum here.

Mark

Oh yeah... On garage door height... Make the garage door as tall as you can, given your sidewall. Again, this is a huge PITA later on if you have something taller you want in the garage like a trailer, RV, really big tow vehicle, etc. If you plan on a lift, you also want to be able to put a vehicle up on the lift with the door up...

24ft. is the depth. I could potentially go a bit deeper than 24' but I'm pretty restricted by my small backyard and all the offsets from the lot lines et al. I want to keep the overhead doors quite a way back from the house and also leave myself more then enough room to maneuver my trailer to park it next to the garage in the back yard. If I went much deeper than 24 feet that would get a bit more difficult.

I don't plan on putting any shelves in front of the area where the car(s) will be parked. All the shelves and workbenches will be off in the side of the building with the workshop area. My tool cabinet has casters so I can just roll that over to the car when I need to work on it.

I agree with your recommendation on the concrete and will be checking into that once I select a couple different contractors to get quotes from. I will definitely go thicker on the side of the garage that would eventually get the lift, if not the entire garage. It depends largely on my overall budget at this point.

I only have one car at this point and I'm not too concerned about having two cars in the garage at a time. Worst case scenario I can angle one slightly into the workshop area and still have plenty of room to work on stuff.

There are really a couple reasons I'm looking at gas heat, one I think forced air heat is far more efficient at heating up an area like a garage than electric heat would be, and I don't plan on keeping the temperature too high in the garage in the winter anyway, just warm enough to keep my hands from going numb!

Gas heat is, as you state, is about 90% efficient at best. Electric heat is 100% efficient at point of use, we're not talking about generation efficiency here. If your heater has a blower on it, the distribution is the same. The only reason to use gas is if you gas is cheaper than your electricity for a comparable unit of energy. Gas has been significantly cheaper
historically, but that's rapidly changing.

Mount your heater up near the ceiling so that it doesn't take up floor space.

That's a pretty good idea. If I use an actual furnace I don't know if that is possible or not, I will have to look into it though.

Howdy,

Common gas garage heater:
http://hot-dawg.modine.com/

Electric, similar style (less btu):
http://www.heater-home.com/product/G73.aspx

That's just a quick google search. You can find similar stuff on http://www.mcmaster.com, including (I seem to recall) a btu calculator to determine how much header you need. Biggest issue I can see with the electric versions is that you fairly quickly run into needing more than 220vac single phase if you're going to need a bunch of heat. Obviously you can get around that with two units, but you've still got a decent amp draw... Two of the heaters above is something like 40A all by themselves. Add a plasma cutter & compressor & lights and you might be sucking down 75A just in the garage. Not bad if you've got 100A service to the garage (on its own panel), but it might suck if you're stealing power from the rest of the house via a shared 100A panel...

Mark

Howdy,

Heater sizing, from McMaster:


I've yet to see a heat loss factor from anyone that spec'd "insulated, but not sealed as well as a house"... Anyone have any ideas there? My garage has an insulated door with the rubber sealing strips on the edges & the doors & windows are tight... Does that mean I can use .25 for heat loss?

Mark

The formula is simple:

BTUH = U x A x delta T

U= 1/R of the wall. Use the area weighted average for the walls, windows, floor and roof. Windows are typically about U=0.6 for double pane clear non low e glass. Concrete is about R=0.5 per inch thickness. Just use the R value of the insulation for the walls and roof, the rest of the wall construction does add a bit to the overall value, but it's small.

A = surface area

Delta T = inside temperature - outside temperature

This will give the minimum required to maintain temperature. It's usually a good idea to double this number to size the heater to account for leakage and provide a decent recovery rate. The process above hints at recovery rate and what to do, but really doesn't explain it well.

Infiltration (cold air leaking in from outside) is very difficult to calculate and will vary greatly depending wind speed and direction.

Wow, somebody stayed at a Holiday Inn last night!

Sorry, when you are an engineer, it's hard to turn it off sometimes. Anyway, I design HVAC for commercial buildings for a living so this stuff is second nature for me.

Many of my friends are engineers, so I've learned to recognize them from a mile away. I'm just a banker so I can't follow all that stuff!

Do the 220v for sure. Also, if you are burying the wire, run at least 2 extra pvc conduit (cheap when you have the trench already) so you can run a cable line or ethernet line out there at some point.

Ditto on the 220V. Your future air compressor, welder, plasma, and lift will require it. It's not any more expensive to run 220V vs 110, and gives you extra capacity down the road. I personally wouldn't install an extra meter, but our utility charges a "per meter" fee of $30/mo anyways. Might as well only pay that once for the house. That being said, install a 100A breaker in your main panel, and run the 4 gage (I forget exactly) wire to a sub panel in the garage. That minimizes your wiring runs, and copper is expensive these days.

Lots of outlets everwhere along walls, between doors, junction boxes in ceilings for lights & fans, etc.

Radiant floor heating would be a dream (a good friend is building his 40x40 shop right now in New Hampshire, and has it!). Drawback is if you're cheap and don't plan on keeping the garage heated at 50 full time through the cold MI winters. Radiant floor heating takes a long time to heat up the shop, so it's not as good for an on-demand system (but great for the baseline cooler temp, so then you just need to raise it another 10-15 degrees to be comfortable).

I personally would ratehr have less windows - less for neighbors to look into. Use transom windows above the garage doors, and lots of flourescent lighting inside. Generally, my doors are closed from Nov through March until it warms up. Less windows = more wall space for storage, and figure $500/window too.

Think of where the doors will face. It's nice not having the door face the street where anyone driving by sees what goodies you have.

Run a few 2" PVC condiuts in the foundation as wire/plumbing chases for the future - TV, warm water, etc... I wish I had a hose spigot with warm water to make washing the cars in winter easier.

Have a separate room for messy stuff like chop saws, cleaning parts, spray painting, grinding, etc.

Slop sink/bathroom would be nice. It's a pain to go back inside the house, take off the shoes, try not to get the doorknobs greasy, just because you've had 3 cups of coffee and need room for more! Minifridge is a must.

Epoxy the floors before you move in. If the foundation is poured, I think you can wait 30 days before painting. Put a vapor barrier under the concrete as well.

I like having the 2 garage doors instead of one, since it spills less heat if it needs to open in the winter. Have a normal 36"x80" person door as well, leading to the back yard, basement, or patio.

It's nice to have room to put the trailer in there if you're loading up for a race. I can *barely* fit it through my 9' wide doors if I take off the fenders, and even still the tongue is 2' past the garage door.

Someone on here mentioned putting an A/C unit in a window. Don't waste time or money. I had an extra 10,000BTU unit laying around. I put it in the garage (2-car, attached to house) for those hot summer nights working on the car.

No matter what, it never got the garage below 85*. I'd get around 90* just by leaving the door open! The only way I could get it comfortable was to turn it on the night before and leave it on all day long. They are good at "keeping" things cool, but not cooling things off.

Was your garage insulated? Sounds like it wasn't. That will make all the difference in the world..... although a 10k btu window unit probably isn't enough for a decent garage anyway.

Insulation is the key.
Mine is insulated better than my house Heat rises.
To answer an earlier question about mine. The length is 30 feet and the width is 24 with the doors being on the front 24 foot wall.
Insulate it well. I do not have windows on the first floor and that helps. Keep prying eyes out.

Well, unfortunately after adding up the expense of the garage and the likelihood that we won't stay in this house for more than another 5 years it looks like doing underground sprinkling, hydroseed for the yard and drywalling/finishing the basement is more likely than building a garage.

The only upside is I may be buying a nice 4-5 acre parcel from a customer of mine in the next couple months, and if that happens when we end up building I will make sure the plans include a nice 40x60 or so building out back with all the goodies!

Build it right the first time. Compromises suck ... moving sucks even more ... moving a shop sux the worst.

Well put. That's my current line of thinking, I really am limited to a 24x32 here by my lot restrictions whereas with 4-5 acres I can build something much larger and since I would be doing it at the same time the house was built I could plan the electric and other utilities accordingly and really have a nice setup.

Things I liked in my garage:

I left out one cabinet for the workbench to make a "desk" area. It is nice to be able to sit at the workbench. Also, at the "desk" I left a slot in the workbench top -- this makes it very handy to saw something, and a trash can underneath catches alot of the sawdust.

I have a central vac in the garage, very nice for cleanup. I just run it whenever I cut or machine, then there is little to cleanup afterwards. It is noisy, so I'm planning to enclose it in a soundproof closet eventually. I really like that it vents outside.

I have a big stationary air compressor -- alot of times I can fill it, and then turn it off, and it has enough air to do the job.

I have a HEPA air filter (thrift store purchase, no filter in it) with a long foil hose, vented to the outside. It is really handy for sucking away fumes or paint odors.

You really want several 220 plugs. You can get a more powerful central vac, and have a welder or plasma cutter.

It is tough to have too much lighting or too many plugs.

This works in the desert, I just use a little swamp cooler that blows right on me to stay cool.

I have a plastic laundry sink -- it is really nice and big, and won't break or dent if I drop a metal part in it.

Things I would like: A four poster lift, and a heated floor. I have also been thinking floor level lighting would be nice for working under the car. I also want to add overhead retracting hose for the air compressor, and a similar arrangement for the central vac hose.