I was looking around at potential daily drivers when I came across the new Cobalt SS. It looks like it might be a fun comuter and be a decent AX car for DS.

Here are some of the pro's
1. 30 MPG HWY
2. 5 speed manual is good for fun and AX
3. 260 hp
4. Under 2700 pounds and could probably be closer to 2600
5. Brembos
6. FWD for winter
7. Small and manuverable
8. $23,000

Cons
1. FWD for AX
2. Small for the family
3. 5 speed manual in stop and go traffic
4. Big dorky wing (but I think it's an option)
5. 18" wheels and good snow tires don't mix well. (I don't know if 16's would fit over the brakes)
6. G8 is $31,000

I'd much rather have havce a G8, but the mileage, cost and AX potential are pushing me toward smaller cars.

We've seen an inordinate amount of hub bearing problems with this car at my shop. If that doesn't keep you from "tracking" it i don't know what will.

Imagine that, a GM with hubs that won't hold up to sticky tires and high side loads. Where have we seen that before?

How much does it cost to drive your current DD? Is it paid for? For either the Cobalt or the G8, what would be the total cost of either car to drive? Need to figure monthly payment, change in insurance cost, and gas cost against current DD costs. Nevermind that if bought new you lose a ton of money - buy 1 year-old used if possible.

FWD for winter is a myth IMO. I drove a lowered SS454 pickup in plenty of snow when stationed in Washington state. RWD, FWD, AWD - none of them stop any better in snow/ice conditions. I would get passed by Jeeps and VWs, only to see them spin out and end up in the ditch. Chances for an accident are greatly reduced if one drives according to conditions.

Howdy,

A friend who autoxes here locally has a Cobalt SS. Its a 2004 (?? I think) without a diff.

Make damn sure you get a diff.

Otherwise... Seems like a pretty nice car actually.

Mark

The cost is obviously an issue, but keeping the current car (99 Malibu with 190K) is likely to get very expensive soon. The likelyhood of a major repair cost seems to go up exponentially when the clock tops 200K. I bought the Malibu 3 years ago for $3k and have put over 80K miles on it since. I only have about $3500 total in the malibu with maintenance in the last 3 years. If it breaks, I'll pull the plates and leave it where it sits. It isn't worth fixing any major problems. I definately got my monies worth out of it, but I've already kept it a year longer than I had intended. When I say I need a new DD, it's not just a desire for better mileage or something like that, I'm begining to lose faith in the reliablility of the existing car.

I agree to a point about the drive wheels being a non-issue in snow. The right tires can make anything do pretty well. My wife, however, does not believe me. That's why she has a 4x4. She would need to drive this car sometimes and would probably be more comfortable, even if it's all in her head, driving a fwd in the snow over a rwd. Gotta keep momma happy. I usually agree about buying 1-2 year old cars. The time I don't agree is if you intend to keep it a long time, then resale is a non-issue. A cars value verses what you pay is only relavent if you intend to sell it. The other problem I have is that there are damn few 1, 2 or even 3 year old cars I'm intersted in. The few I do like are just as much as the Cobalt is new or more. Maybe I'll get lucky and find a used -08 G8 GT this fall for cheap.

I gave consideration to the exact same car.

After putting much thought into it, I came to the conclusion that, in my situation, I'd be best served to stay away from a car with a "power adder" and autocrossing it......even stock

I will say, thought, I read somewhere that the 09's (I believe) will receive some "tweeking" that might help make it an even better contender for DS

Good luck in your decision.

So...say you put another 3K into the Malibu for whatever pending preventive/corrective maintenance is coming. That's still 20K less than the Cobalt, your insurance doesn't change, and your overall household budget's overhead isn't increased with a new payment.

OR look at it this way - that's 20K that can go for other go-fast stuff for the Camaro. If you've already decided that you can afford to spend 23k (which is probably closer to 26K for the Cobalt after taxes, license, etc), why not spend it where you really want to spend it? Upgrades, advanced driving instruction, etc...

And take the 23K out as a home equity loan - at least you get a tax break that way vs a regular auto loan.

Well, I just bought a 99 Miata Sport as an economical commuter. Miata owners may not think so, but even the most expensive tires are dirt cheap. I've been getting around 33mpg on the interstate, 27~28 mpg commuting, and have never dropped below 26mpg even when tossing it around a bit and keeping the revs up. It also uses regular gas (2001 is the first year requiring premium). I'm still keeping the Silverado for rural property maintenance and its seating for six (in a pinch), but won't be putting as many miles on it (already has a lot for it's age).

The Miata is set up for C-Stock, except the previous owner kept the race wheels for his other Miata. I'm kinda torn on that, though. While there's just a little bit of mild cone rash, the car is in pretty good shape. It will be due for its 60K timing belt replacement soon, but other than that the maintenance is all caught up. Part of me wants to just retire it to street use and confine the competition wear and tear to the ferocious Camaro. Part of me is drawn to cheap race tires on the oh-so-nimble little Miata. My build is better sorted to a car with torque, but the 99 1.8 DOHC solid-lifter motor (pre-99 had hydraulic lifters) has a fairly wide power band for what it is. I'll probably at least take the Miata out on street tires for a few events.

I don't have a car payment, and it only takes a few tanks to pay for the insurance. I still have other options when I need to haul the whole family. It works for me

With 2 small kids (4 and 6) we need a car that at least has a back seat. So, no Miata, Solstice or Corvette for me anyting soon. I went and drove the Cobalt SS this afternoon. It's fun. It has pretty good seats and seems to have lots of power. The LSD is good and this is the first fwd car I've ever driven that exibited no torque steer. The clutch was a bit sensative but very light, the shifter has good weight and reasonably short throws. I could shift much quicker than I can in the Camaro. It pulls strong all the way to redline, but there is a noticable kick around 4k rpm. The ride is firm, but not harsh, the handling seemed good, but I couldn't push it much. It definately does understeer. There is NO front or rear camber adjustment but according to the tech I spoke to, there is a TSB for slotting some holes as needed but I didn't read it. Fitting much more tire would be a challenge at best. 245's MIGHT fit. All in all I like the car, but I'm not sure it's the right one. The dealer I went to is also the one I bought the Camaro from 8 years ago. The same salesman was still there. He told me he'd order what ever I wanted, sell it at invoice and I received what amounts to a $2000 coupon in the mail last week. So the car would be about $20 out the door.

As for keeping the Malibu and just fixing what ever breaks, I know that the smartest thing to do financially, but I just don't like the car that much. I originally bought it to be something cheap to throw miles at and I think I'm ready for something different. If worst comes to worst, I will keep and and keep it running. The only problem with that it, right now that car has been essentially free. I can still sell it for $1500 or more. So that leaves me with $2000 in it for 80,000 miles. That's $0.025 per mile. If I have to put $3k into repairs, that more than doubles the cost per mile. As it is if I keep it beyond this summer it will need tires. I bought it right before gas really started to go up and there is no way I could get a similar deal today.

Maybe I should keep looking, at least for a while.

Buy the Cobalt, it looks like a pretty cool ride to me. The G8 is a nice car, but the lack of a manual kills it for me. Traffic shmaffic, I am fine with a manual commuting every day.

My daughter is four, but she doesn't go to work with me. She likes riding in the Miata on weekends, though. It wouldn't be practical for me to make payments on a new two-seater at this point, but paying cash for a nine-year-old little car that's fun and cheap to drive alone was workable.

That rules out the S2000 and Solstice, and I had to grudgingly admit that I don't need another 3000 lb++ V8.

When did the Cobalt go into production? Maybe you can find a used one that already has the front swaybar and Konis

Frankly though, the hub bearing issue would be a big concern for me. I don't know any more about it than what's in this thread. I'm pretty quick at Camaro hub swaps now, but I'd expect it to be more hassle on a FWD carr.

When I spoke the tech, I asked if they had any issues that they saw them come in for often. He said the only thing he's seen as a repeat issue was the cruise control switch on the clucth. Whe you side step the clutch, it apparrently knocks the little switch out of the bracket. I believe rsmith350 when he says he's seen several hub failures, but the tech I spoke with had not. I wonder if the hub failures he's seen were due to "tracking" of something else?

The 08 with the turbo is just now hitting the showrooms. It's a very new model. The rest of the car is basically the same as the last few years. I doubt there are many (if any) for sale used let alone with upgraded shocks and swaybars.

With all the miles we put on cars I think I really want a low mile used or a new car. We put over 30k miles per year on the daily drivers. Either will be relatively expensive compared to the deal I got on the old Malibu.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u...mp;cardist=1469

Here's a black 2007...

I was talking about used 08's. The newer one has 55 more hp, 60 more ft-lbs, 300 less pounds, the same gas mileage and it's only $2k more. I like the 08 much better than the previous version. The numbers are from edmunds for the 07 and GM for the 08. I have a feeling the 07's will be dropping in price once the new ones become more prevalent since the new one is so much better.

so i assume a motorcycle is out of the question
On a more serious note, have you considered the Mitsubishi Lancer ? or you just don't like it ?
I know its not a EVO, but it's AWD, and has "Decent" power (164hp)... but much cheaper than the SS.
There's the Subaru WRX for ~24k$... not the STI, but close in price to the SS... 224hp.
Another option is to get Kevin's MazdaSpeed6, sedan awd, turbo w/ plenty of zoom-zoom... used car, and good for your budget... wife would be happy too.

My wife wants to trade in the Suburban. She has been looking at a WDUB. The Passat wagon turbo, 21-29MPG, $23,500 invoice. 200hp@5100rpm, 207tq@1800rpm, 3300 LBS, 6 speed manual. Could be a fun car.

Run away from VWs!

I never had one, acctually never even sat in one. What's wrong with them?

Truer words have never been said!

The possibility of the problems I've seen with the hubs being from track use are a possibility. I've only seen younger kids with those cars. Abuse may be a big factor.

I have spent a fair amount of time wreching on a 2002 VW new Beetle. What a POS. The battery takes 20 minutes to get out once you know how. I could swap pushrods in an ls1 faster than I can put a headlight in the VW. They have a know problem where the fans draw too much current, and it melts the fuse block. That was a grand. And the dealer wants to charge $300 to replace the thermostat so they can replace the faulty cat under warranty.

Have had (so far) great experience with my 2006 Jetta TDI DSG. Only real problems have been the dealer(s). Neither knew the maintenance periodicity of draining the water separator. One said every 5k, the other 10k. Interestingly enough, the 2006 TDIs DO NOT HAVE this....

I bought mine new in October 2006 and have 30k on it now. It's my DD and have enjoyed the great mileage (high 30s in combined driving) but the cost of diesel is very frustrating now.

didn't the cobalt just set a lap record in its class at 'the ring' not long ago?

Yep.

I would not own a VW, especially one off of warranty. Lots of electrical problems, among other things. Run away indeed.

Hopefully you got a good one. In theory they're great, but...

My Brother's TDI Jetta (was like a 2002-ish one) had lots of problems. The glow-plugs needed replacement at around 50-60K miles and that was about $500. Lots of problems with cluster lights, windows, and taillights the entire time he had it. Most was not covered under warranty. My wife had a 2002 Cabrio GLX and it had some of the same dumb problems as my 1986 GTI (Frozen parking brake in the winter, etc). Couldn't get a airbag light to go off after paying big $$$ to get diagnosed and buy parts. Same convertor failure as previously mentioned and was replaced under the 80K mile federal warranty...but the MAF that was the root of the problem was not covered. She was way into negative equity, but we basically paid to get rid of it last year (to buy my 'stang), and then she could drive our BMW 330xi. I sure am glad she wasn't in that POS Cabrio when she was hit.

i'll pile on the "no VW" bus...g/f has an 02 Audi TT...two failed air pumps (1st under warranty), bad air bag module, numerous dash/gauge issues, intermittent stereo issues even after being replaced under warranty. Supposedly the 1.8Turbo motor has wiring and vacuum line issues too. I'm working through the vacuum system now to fix a cold start surge. Wonderful car to drive, handles great, 30+ mpg highway, but a bi+ch $$$ to keep on the road.

I'm also not fond of the cobalt either...I find the interiors cheap, but maybe thats just GM these days. I'll take a smaller G8 please...keep the RWD, nice interior, and manual trans. After not finding anything I liked in the GM bin, I bought a saab 9-5, decent sized, decent power, but FWD It would be a big move up from your "rental car" Malibu!

Good luck!

Saab is owned by GM.

Still designed and built by the Sweeds though.

The "move up" is not really the point. The Malibu may be a rental car, but it has the V6 and actually goes well. I find it hard to bash any car that goes 190,000 miles with as little trouble as this one. I've never been a Saab fan, but I'm sure they are nice cars. I'm not into luxury cars, to me they are just over priced versions of regular cars with extra crap that can break. My prioritis are in order as follows (all must be met):

1. American made (I always prefer to buy American when I can)
2. Good gas mileage (30+ HWY)
3. Fun to drive (good handling, brakes etc.)
4. Reasonable room for 2 adults a 2 children
5. Enough power to pass on the highway and run the mountain passes well at 10,000 ft plus elevation (I live in Colorado)
6. Good in snow (this is mostly tire choice in my experience so most anything will fit this criteria)
7. Comfortable for a someone over 6' tall to drive. ( I put 25-30K miles per year on my DD)

Autox potential is a bonus, but not required, I will still have the Camaro.

If you can think of any other car that fits all these criteria, please let me know. I'm coming up blank. Obviously, cost in an issue and I don't want to spend more than I have to so I'm looking at the cheaper cars.

Howdy,

I've got an '06 Civic LX sedan/four door. Gets 38mpg with a "mostly highway" commute. Comfortable, cheaper than the Cobalt SS, etc.

I wouldn't hesitate to recommend one to anyone. It doesn't have the power a Cobalt SS (or Civic SI) has, but then again it uses regular gas & gets better mileage too. You want a racecar or a street car?

Mark

(oh, and I'd have rather bought american as well. America doesn't make a car that gets over 35mpg on the highway, and certainly doesn't make one that has the composed handling/ride that the Civic does)

The problem is that at altitude, most of the factory "race cars" perform about like the standard cars at sea level. My house is at 5600 ft elevation and I loose a little over 20% of stock hp ratings on a naturally aspirated car, in the mountains at 10000 ft, I loose 40% or more. The turbo may reduce (or eliminate) the losses depending on how boost is controlled. Up here, your civic wouldn't be able to get out of it's own way. To give you an idea of what your civic would feel like up here, put two of your closest 250 pound buddies in the back seet and take off from a light.

You don't find very many in this state that opt for the lower power version of anything.

The few times I've had the Camaro down near sea level, it felt like I put a blower on it.

Although I personally would prefer the Cobalt SS over this, the Dodge Noen SRT-4.
........in '05 they came out with the ARC version that actually trophied n 07.

Not a bad suggestion. I hadn't thought of that one. I looked up a few specs and it not too bad. Even has 4 doors instead of 2, same gas mileage (22/30). I looked on Autotrader and there were a few for sale in my area. It looks like it might be tough to get a stock one. Prices I saw would save me about 5-6K from the Cobalt SS. I might go drive one. Thanks.

I actually did some testing back in 04 in one.
My step-father, who was a National Champion back in the 80's in BSP, purchased one. We put crash bolts in, set up an alignment, put some Kuhmos on it and tested it at a few local events. The only real complaint he had is that it was the 04, before the ACR version, with the taller wheel and he felt it hurt the performance.......thought a 16" rim would be a better fit for gearing and turbo (in my mind I think that would be more course depenant ). I liked it myself, barring the fact that the turbo was somewhat noticable when it "kicked in". I will say that the times were EXTREMELY competitive for something "right out of the box" and no shocks.......and for what it is, a decent amount of room for people in back
~ or tires in the trunk

If I recall correctly, Danny Popp got serious with an ACR version a few years back (for a year or two) ......you might ask him his opinion.

I understand where you are coming from...I was in a similar position and after finding that an American company does not make what I want, I had to settle for something that the profits go to an American company. You could buy an American made Honda Accord, but the profits go to Honda-Japan. I completely understand the extra crap to break too...but I like my heated seats when its "cold" here And I wanted a manual trans too...which removes 90% of the non performance cars off the list

have you looked at ...new malibu? saturn aura?

btw - older saabs were very independent...but the new ones borrow HEAVILY from the standard GM parts bin which means that some of the parts will at least be reliable. and saab turbo technology is what GM uses on all their turbo cars...

FWIW it looks like FastMike is moving from his CS Solstice (finished 2nd at Nationals last year) to a DS Cobalt SS. He was one of the early believers in the Solstice.

How about an HHR SS? Same motor, 4 doors, lots of utility ... a little bit more money than the Cobalt.

Yes, I looked at the new Malibu and the Aura, both seem to be good cars and like them but both are priced a bit higher than I wanted to spend (with the v6) plus there's no manual. I think they had pretty high gas mileage ratings for the size and motor though. I drive 35 miles each way to work, so I spend a fair amount of time behind the wheel. It would be nice to have DD that can entertain me a little when the situation allows. I guess I'm just tired of boring and want a little fun to drive.

The HHR SS? I guess it's time to do more research. I'm going to guess the gas mileage will be lower and the weight higher just based on the larger size and the larger frontal area. The Cobalt is just big enough for my needs , but certainly non too big. We still will have my wifes '03 Grang Cherokee, so when we need to haul stuff or more people we can use it.

My '97 Saturn wagon with 188k miles gets 32 mpg at 75mph and 40mpg at 55mph.

I guess I must not get it, because FWD econobox never really screamed "composed handling" to me.

Howdy,



I'm not really wanting to get in some argument about it, but our '06 civic (80k miles) gets 40 or a little better mpg at 72mph strictly highway. The ride/handling was light years ahead of everything else we drove with the exception of the Corolla (which had a goofy seating position). No, I don't think we drove a Saturn. Probably it didn't make the list due to poor mileage. :-)

More modern beats pigeon hole labels any day of the week... The civic is easily as luxurious as our old '93 BMW 325is, at a price on the order of half what the BMW was new (in '93!).

If I wasn't (at the time) driving 120 miles/day for a work commute I might not have placed such a high premium on fuel mileage. But at the time, there was no new American made car that I could find that was rated at 35+ mpg highway. Not one.

As for the composed handling bit... The civic stock has a hell of a lot more composed ride than any stock Chevy I've ever driven outside of a Corvette. Chevy seems to be hell bent on "soft is comfortable" when in fact its usually more the opposite to me. Other American manufacturers seem to think the same thing, and as a general rule of thumb I've found Honda/Toyota/etc. vehicles to have a more composed ride where the chassis isn't allowed to flop all over the damn place. Can't say as I've spent much time in a Saturn though.

Mark

Kind of sounds like my volvo. I go through hubs like worn out socks. They arent cheap either.