Had a TON of fun at this track with the CiSCC today. This track was freakin awesome! Felt like being in a video game b/c of all the buildings and twists/turns. sooo much fun

for maximum enjoyment: turn up the volume

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yFg99D3CCw

my worst time: 64ish, my best time, 61.083
i need better tires, these street ones are terrible. the other f-body guys were tearin' it up with low/mid 50's and they were rollin on some serious rubber!

Whoever let those folks stand there (at :08 seconds into the video) needs to seriously reconsider that decision. I NEVER like to see course workers on the outside of a corner (where the car will go if it gets a mind of its own and goes straight/spins).

Other than that, looks like a good time.

That and the trees/flagpole/curbs are a disaster. There's no room for a spin.

I don't think many of the bystanders were in safe places! I'd pick another location or redesign the course. Glad you had fun, however, these courses are supposed to be designed so you can get carried away safely when you overstep your skills. I did not get that feeling here!

don't get me wrong-it was tight as HELL thorugh that course. but that just seperated the drivers from the girls. LOL. There was a very well built [cage and all] lt1 z28 there cutting corners like it was on rails. I swear he had 285 slicks on all corners. his best time was like 50 to my best of 62.


http://www.cincyautox.org/Solo2008/06_22_2008_fin.htm
we were in ESP

I know you're fairly new around here, so don't take this the wrong way and think we're picking on you, we're not. We're all up for challenging courses. But we also have concerns about safety with regards to what happens if "it all goes wrong". Say you sheared off all 5 front lugs on the outside wheel coming through that sweeper at :08 seconds into the video...you were going to have a pretty high probability of hitting those course workers. That's what we're worried about. And, before you say "that can't happen", it already has (the lug part). A gentleman on here named Mike had all 5 studs break in competition and put him into a wall. This was on a road course, but we are generating similar levels of grip (and considerable stress) in either form of motorsports. His car was quite heavily damaged in that accident. But the point is, failures do happen and that course (though it looked fun) appeared to leave less run off area than several of us find comfortable. It's not your fault, you didn't design it and we are not picking on you. It's just some observations based on what we think we are seeing on the video.

Sometimes I personally will choose to sit with the girls instead of unnecessarily risking someones safety or damage to my vehicle.

As always, your results may vary.

...or break a hub in a corner


...and I've been getting a pretty good butt-whoopin' by a "girl" for a few years now. Better watch those girl comments

Have fun, welcome aboard!

Thanks for that response - now I'll ratchet it up a bit. The organizers of this event were irresponsible - they put people and cars at risk with the course design and location of the workers. They were very fortunate to have gotten thru this event without earning a Darwin award. Those people standing there did not sign up to risk their lives in exchange for a chance at a plastic trophy. Every time a car or person gets hurt at an autocross event it ripples thru the ether and gets logged with the lawyers and insurance co's. Rates go up, lots become unavailable, new people are scared away from what should be a safe competition.

When this thread settles down, please print it out and give to your event organizer.

This is a good idea. Along the same lines, is it difficult to design a safe autocross course? I ask out of ignorance, as I think I've attended one autocross, and did not drive. I've seen autocross design threads on other forums, but don't really pay attention. What I'm driving at, is perhaps some autocross course design tips for the original poster that might make their way to the event organizer?

Jason

This is the Cinci Ohio region (I think) and they have some excellent course designers (Danny Popp comes to mind). But they seem to get small lots and they try to get maxium use out of that space. That results in some cases of less than ideal run off room. I don't know who designed this course, but I can say that I'd love to see more run off around it. With that said, I wasn't there and I'm judging from a video clip that may not be the best perspective. However, I still think I have valid concerns about that course.

I only ran one event in that region and we were running at a Ford plant with a steep bank all around the lot. The course ran straight at it and turned at the edge of the pavement (and it was cold enough that it was difficult to get tires up to temp, so it was SLICK). I was fearing someone was going to be up on that bank by the end of the day, and someone was. A car made it pretty close to the top of the banking (no damage). However, if I remember correctly (at a different event there a bit later), a Corvette (I think) went over the banking and off the other side (this is a "signifigant" hill with a flat top at the top and back down the other side). I believe (and I may be incorrect) that vehicle was somewhat signifigantly damaged.

We run pretty large lots in Columbus and we generally have a signifigant amount of run off room. We did have a C5 Z06 spin, stay in it and wind up driving over a curb with the front half of the car. The radiator support suffered major damage as did the front bodywork in the nose area (and the radiator, etc). It can still happen, but I think that was just a freak thing. It spun under power, hooked up and "boom".

well, it happened, guys. a mustang went off course into a tree. That was this sunday. Car was a "regular" too, and you could tell he was serious b/c it had slicks on all 4 corners. It was a mid-90's cobra vert

That's exactly what we were worried about. We really weren't picking on you. Was everyone ok?

i realized you weren't picking on me. Trust me the first time i saw the track last week i said "this won't fair well if i go off course"

yes, they all go out just fine-more emotional damage then anything else. It was a shame. be it a civic or a lotus, anybody who races their car has an affliction toward it and emotional connection. Such a shame. It wasn't totaled at all, which was good. There was heavy damage to the front bumper and the radiator. no air bags went off, they hit on the front/passenger side so that wheel was toasted. Pretty sure there will be some frame damage to considering how hard they hit and the placement of it.

Wow sorry to hear man! but glad to hear everyone was ok. Hey I'll have to send you an email regarding Nora's Labor Day weekend event. It is going to be a 2 day event with a format similar to national events to give the locals a taste and some experience before they do go and do a national event. Hopefully you can convince you wife to spend the weekend in the Cleveland area if you need a place to crash let me know. I'll make an official posting when we get nearer to it.

hahaha...probably won't happen. We'll be vacationing with her family [from akron] a week before that, and i doubt any one of us will want to see eachother again for a while. LMAO =)
thanks for the heads up. Keep me posted though! I'm pretty happy with the stuff i'm doing now. I gotta purty up the car for the ls1 calendar shoot i'll be doing so my AX days are one hiatus for a bit after i get it buffed.

Howdy,

Was this an SCCA event? Those workers (and the curb & tree) at :08 at the video sure as heck don't meet the SCCA safety standards. And yes, that's my 'Solo Safety Steward Instructor" viewpoint.

Perhaps the camera makes it look way closer than it actually was, but a tree like that on the outside of a higher speed turn < 25' away pretty much violates every rule and intent in the book. Having course workers there just makes it worse, but there's no specific rule that violates (though I think any SSS would be within their rights to demand that they move.

Mark

(edit: Ok, I looked up CiSCC... its not SCCA, just steals their rules like lots of other local clubs. They'd do better to steal some of the safety rules as well.)

Howdy,



Well, there are minimum safety guidelines in the SCCA rulebook, but they're pretty darned basic and certainly don't by themselves make something meeting them a "safe course".

There's a lot that goes into it, particularly when you're working with a small lot or hazards (light poles, curbs, drainage grates, etc.). Roger Johnson has a course design presentation that's floating around on the web that's a great introduction to course design, though its about more than just safety.

Mark

isn't there a safety director for the layout ?
sorry to hear about the mishap... have a deja-feeling, about the video, though