The engine on my son's '04 Mazda3 was hydrolocked in a storm last Thursday. His insurance company had it towed to a Mazda dealer where they said it had water in the engine. A new engine from Mazda is $7800 installed. According to VA law, because his car is less than 7 years old, AND the damage exceeds 90% of the actual cash value prior to the damage, it will become a "nonrepairable vehicle". That means if he takes salvage on the car, he can't put it on the road. His insurance company is required to tell DMV and they will void the title, and remove the tags. I could understand it had the car rolled over, or hit a tree, but not for mechanical problems. Any insurance experts out there?

I sent this thread to a friend of mine who works for an insurance company in Ohio. This is his response :

The price of $7800.00 was from the dealer. The dealer also quoted a used engine installed for $6,600.00. I found an independent shop that quoted a price of $4,000.00 for a used engine installed. Apparently, this is some sort of Virginia DMV rule, but only for vehicles of "the current model year, and the six preceeding years". He'll get $7200.00 for the car totaled, 90% of $7200.00 is $6480.00, so it won't hard to get under that 90% rule, if they'll allow it. Darned if I understand it. Thanks for the help Karen.

Bill

Howdy,

I don't know if he or you is mechanically inclined, but you may be money ahead to let them total the car then buy it back. I've never done it, but I've had plenty of friends who've gone that route.

Then install a used engine yourself or pay the independent.

Downside is that the car will now have a salvage / rebuilt title. That's going to decrease its value significantly when it comes time for you to sell it, but otherwise doesn't matter.

How in the heck did the engine get hydrolocked in the first place?

Mark

Sounds like the makings of a good track car.

Mark, the issue is this "non-rebuildable" certificate. According to Virginia's DMV, if a vehicle that is less than 7 years old, or valued at more than $7,500.00 needs repairs greater than 90% of it's pre-claim value, it is totaled. If the owner wants to keep the vehicle, the insurance company is required to notify DMV who will issue the certificate which prevents the vehicle from being licensed for use on public roads. What I've done in the past is to take salvage and fix the vehicle. We had already located a remanufactured engine for a reasonable price, as well as a local independent shop that would install a used engine for $4,300.00 parts labor and a new clutch. I installed an engine in my other son's Integra and it was tight, but I guess I could do it to the Mazda if I needed to. I hate to work on FWD's. The dealer that Met Life had it towed to said a new engine was $7,800.00 installed, and a used engine was $6,600.00 installed. They valued his car at $7116.85, which puts him at 92.37% if he went with the used engine at the dealer. It really sucks. It was his first new car, he made the last payment last month, and the title came in the mail today.

Are you sure the title isn't marked 'Salvaged' instead of 'non-rebuildable'. About 2-3 years ago my brother purchased a wrecked Saturn - front bumper and one fender and because of the age and KBB it was totaled by ins and marked 'Salvaged' on the title. It runs like a top even today.

Can you buy it back or is it shipped off to auction? I know a local used dealer/body shop who might be able to assist in buying back from a non-public auction if it goes that way.

PM me and we can go off line if you need a lil help.



How are those truck headers holding up?

The headers are holding up fine. As for the car, under "Code of Virginia-Title 46.2 Motor Vehicles-Section 46.2-1600 Definitions", it explains what that 90% rule is regarding "non-rebuildable" vehicles. Met Life wants him to surrender the title, and accept the $7,200 for his car. Their appraiser has concluded it needs an engine, (used, installed at the dealer), which is around 92% of the pre-claim value. He offered to pay the difference, ($195.00), and Met said it's against the law, he told them to drop the claim, and start it over, and Met said they couldn't, it was already in the system. They only got one estimate, refuse to contact the independent shop that will install a used engine for around $4,000, or any other installer. My son's argument is that he can't replace his car for what they've offered, and Met is willing to spend over $3,000 more to total the car than to repair it. And the fact that according to Virginia, it can never be used on public roads again. He can keep the car, and get $5,200 but he has to surrender the title to get his money. Then, they'll issue the "non-rebuildable" certificate. I offered to pay him the $2,000 difference and put the car on racing Junk, hoping someone would buy it as an IT car or something. I think he'll lose eventually, but he's fighting the good fight.

I don't think it's legal for them to rely on a single estimate, especially when it's that close (2%). I wonder if he mentions the "l" word (lawyer) if they won't rethink their position. There's got to be someone in the area (VMSC/ODR/FRRAX) that has a lawyer friend who can intervene if necessary too.

And seriously, that kind of ridiculousness would keep me from ever considering MetLife as an insurance company for anything.

Good thinking Karen, and I'll ask around. But get this...the damn car starts. He hears some valve train noise, but it starts, and he drove it. No rods knocking, but something in the head. I really don't think Met Life is the whole problem. I think it has more to do with Virginia's DMV, although it seems like Met could be a bit more flexible.

you might have already dealt with this but I just got back on from vacation... I asked a buddy who is a claims adjuster with a large ins co here in VB. As you probably already know, it is a valid VA law, newer than 7 years, valued over 7500, if its totaled over 90% it has a scrap only title in VA. He said that their company usually doesn't do that since it ruins the salvage value of the car (for the ins co). He figures that the ins co is betting on someone buying it since it only needs an engine and giving them a high salvage value. That is kind of a jerk move IMHO. He also suggested taking it somewhere (tow if you have to) to get another estimate that is under the 90% threshold if you really want to keep it.

Good luck
Todd

Check VA laws and your own policy. I'll bet $1000 that you can take it to any shop you want.

Here in LA, you can do that. Certain companies have shops that are "certified", but those are just shops the company would rather you take them to. They allow you to take it to 3 shops, and then choose the estimate that you want to use.

If you really want to yank their chain, start drafting a complaint to your state Department of Insurance. Ask them for their advice on what the law says and their interpretation of it.

Be careful of using the "lawyer" word. As soon as a lawyer contacts them on your behalf, they will stop talking to you. They'll only talk to your lawyer. And only through their lawyer.

He ended up taking the loss, and took the $7,200. I can't believe that they wouldn't get another estimate, but they didn't. A friend of mine used to work at a dealership, and now works for Mazda at a remanufacturing plant. He said the engine can be dropped out of the car in around an hour. I suggested he contact his state representative or someone in the local gov't. What Todd says makes sense, because they now hold the title and the car, and can do as they please. I told him to take salvage anyway and I would pay the $2,000 and sell it on racing junk, ebay, or fix it and fight with DMV at a later date. In the end, he got tired of the whole affair and let it go. He bought a 2010 Ford Fusion with a 4 cylinder and a 6 speed.