Looking through Craiglist ads, I'm seeing C4s all over the spectrum.

Are 95 and 96 versions "special"?
What's the difference between a 96 and 96 Limited edition?
Could an LT4 be had in either?
Is there a code in the VIN or something that tells me its a real LT4?
Were there ANY that came with something other than porno red interior?

What year did the C4s begin getting an LT1? 92?

I am seeing 96 LEs @60K mile LT4/6spd cars in the low teens.
I am seeing 94 and under @100K mile LT1/Autos cars in the 6s and 7s

I am also seeing 98-00 FRCs in the low teens all in the 80-100K mile range with 6 speeds in the low to mid teens.

But I really like the way a C4 looks. Seems like everyone has a C5.

Not looking at a show car, just a driver.

According to the interwebs all '96 Corvettes equipped with a six speed trans came with an LT4. Automatics got the LT1.
LT1 showed up in the Corvette in '92. 91's had the rounded front and rear bumpers but had an L98.
If you're looking for a daily driver I think a C5 is the way to go. Much more comfortable car IMO.

If you don't mind swapping parts, I would think getting an early C4 (83-85) would be dirt cheap with high miles, then just swap in the LS1 and tranny of your choice. This gives you the better looks of the C4 but the performance of the C5. Are you up for some work?

I've owned a '96 LT4 Collector Edition Z51 and a '04 Z06.

They were both great cars and alot of fun. But in my opinion the C5 can't be beat by a C4. Better ergo and cockpit layout. C4s are a bit goofy in that you need to go over the frame rail to get in and out. It didn't bug me but friends that rode would comment on it and it was always exciting to see Liz get in and out of it in a short skirt.... Better engine in the C5 too. Even as a Z51 car my C4 was too soft for me suspension wise but that is more a matter of taste I guess.

Jeff

Interesting data ... keep it coming.



After building a dozen or more, either whole cars or pieces of whole cars, over the last couple years ... no, I am NOT up for some work.




Jeff ... you are like a rock star, you know?

1988 was when they corrected the rear suspension geometry. I've been wanting a '91 myself. It's the last year before the LT1's (why would I buy a car with an opti on purpose???), it's a 6 speed, it's the updated/freshened body style and it has the updated rear suspension. That's the year I want (and why).

Sadly, I missed a $1,200 '85 during my divorce. I really wish I'd have managed to buy that car, even though it was an auto. It's now an EM autocross car.

my biggest beef with the C4 is that the build quality and fit/finish is terrible on them. Especially the interior.

Now I like the LT1 engine, and I like C4 vettes, but for similar money I think the C5 wins hands down. Here are some pics to stir the pot a little....

I like C5's, but the C4 is the last Corvette that you could work on with a jack and jack stands. Go blow a clutch in your C5/C6 and call me when you complete the clutch swap in your driveway using jack stands. I'm not going to wait by the phone...

I think the C5 is a fantastic car until you break it. Getting the engine or trans out of it is beyond (or close to it) the capabilities of most home/garage mechanics. Guys who can swap a manual in for an automatic, build engines, etc but don't have a lift to get the goofy guts out of a 'Vette.

If you have a lift then you might just go C5 shopping...

The rear suspension geometry never changed, all C4 rear springs are interchangeable. The angle on the rear trailing arms changed at some point changing the rear anti-squat (1985?, but it's just the bracket, 10 min swap). The width of the rear did change, but I can't remember what exactly got the extra width; I think the knuckles. The front geometry changed to the zero scrub in 88. The ZF6 manual 6 spd trans started in 89, before that they got the 4+3 (4 spd manual with a 2 spd auto on the back). The 4+3 blows and won't hold much power. 89-91 are good years, ZF6 and L98.

The 96 Collector's Editions are silver and have some logos...that's about the only difference. CE's come in auto/LT1 and manual/LT4. As said, all 96 manuals got LT4's and all auto 96's got LT1's. 84 had it's own spindles and brakes, 85-87 had single piston, and 88-96 had dual piston PBR's. 88-94 you could get 12" or 13" rotors, 95-96 all have the 13". There are the Z51/Z52/Z07 handling packages, but the differences between them are good for another discussion. The 84-87 car's don't have room in the shock towers for coil overs, should you want to ditch the leaf springs.

LS1 swap is doable, but the trick is the transmission. C4's don't use a cross member, so the trans is held up by the c-beam to the rear diff. The factory trans has bosses for the c-beam, but of course T-56's don't. There is supposed to be an adapter but I heard it sucks. It wouldn't be too hard to fab one. They have headers and motor mounts to bolt them in.

If I were building (another) C4, even for LS1 swap, I'd start with an 88 and up. Much easier to find wheels and suspension parts for them. There are 2 rear diffs: Dana 36 and Dana 44. All autos got D36 and all manuals 85 and later got D44. D44 will hold 600 RWHP pretty easily, while the D36 is marginal above 350 RWHP. Both are fine for AX/RR.

C5's are somewhat harder to work on, particularly the trans, but clutches are doable on jack stands, I know people who have done it. The C5 chassis is leagues ahead of the C4 in terms of stiffness, and C5's will be lighter at equal levels of prep. The C5 rear diff isn't particularly strong, but works great for AX/RR, as long as it has a trans/diff cooler. A C5 will have a better weight distribution, and making power is so much easier with an LSx it hurts.

Bring the tech, Trackbird!

As far as I know, ALL C5 FRCs were T56es (from the factory at least )

...and as dangerous already stated; ALL C4 LT4s were ZF 6 speeds.

I was hoping you'd show up Chad.

So a 96/6speed sounds like da'shit. Is there a quick and dirty primer on the Z51/Z52/Z07 differences?

I'm sort of looking at possibilities for a driver, not a track car.

I can't decide between a nice 3G, a 96-98 Lincoln M8 or a C4 ... quite the spectrum, eh?

If it were me, I would wait around for the C5 Z06 cars to drop into the teens, if they arn't already there. You get the Z06 suspension and chassis upgrades plus the LS1. Don't settle for an LT1 when you can get the LS1 for the same money. Even if you go for a high milage car, it's still a steal. Most of the C5 parts will exchange with C6 parts with little effort.

The Z51 suspension got softer the later model years. Here is a handy chart that will explain the differences: http://www.zr1netregistry.com/ZR1_suspension.htm
The Z51 package was renamed Z07 for 91-95, and went back to Z51 for 96. On 88-94 cars, the Z51 also got the 13" brakes, vs the 12", but all 95-96 got the big brakes. Other than front brakes, the biggest part of the Z51 package was springs/bars, though early cars got oil coolers and some chassis bracing. Z52 includes most of the Z51 stuff, minus springs. These were only on L98 cars, so if you want LT1/LT4 these won't be a factor.

By 1996, even the Z51 springs were SOFTER than the base springs in 1988, and the base 96 springs are really soft. Finding an LT4 Z51 is going to be tough, so I'd just find a nice car and then swap springs later (if you decide you want to). Used leafs pop up on Corvette Forum for reasonable money (I had a set of Z51 leafs, from 89 and 84). You can also get aftermarket leafs in almost any rate, or coil overs for easy spring swaps.

It was said earlier, but the C4 interior isn't the greatest, and there is the sill to deal with. Some guys on Corvette Forum love the sill and the 'cockpit' feel of the car, but then again, some guys love the Star Wars/Atari dashboard...

The best advice is to drive a few and see if you like it. C5 prices are definitely on the way down, but if this is just a driver, a C4 works great too.

Not only were all C5 frc's 6 speed cars, they also all came with Z51 suspension and a power steering cooler. I looked at C4's long and hard before buying a '00 frc ... the deciding factor for me (which probably won't apply to your situation Mitch) was the rear suspension. C5s have true upper and lower control arms in the back ... in a C4 the half shaft acts as the upper control arm ... blow a u-joint on a half shaft and your tire falls over sideways.

I bought mine 2 years ago with 50K miles for $17K. Mid/low teen deals are out there if you look hard enough.

As a driver, the early C4 seats are pretty tight for a big guy (which I am). A colleague bought my C5 seats to put in his C4 specifically because his wife's ample rear wouldn't fit in the C4 seat.

And just for fun, the current state of my C5:

Agreed, the late C4 is the best body design that came from GM - but the interior sucks. Narrow seats, cramped headroom, high sills would be tough on a big guy.

The good news is they are cheap, and easy to make into a decent race car. Good weight dist, easy to get down to a reasonable weight, plenty of room for fat tires.

My favorite C4's:

I'll leave the technical to others since I didn't race either of my vettes... I tend to agree with what most have posted here. I really preferred the look of my 86 even with the porno red interior. My 99 vert was a much nicer car to drive, esp on road trips. The 86 was a rattle and squeaker...much like my 3rd gen is now. My biggest grip about the C4 was the digital dash...esp since the 86 was very primitive...not sure if it got better in the later years.

I agree, the 88 and up C4's are the ones to have. I am part owner in the C4 that Trackbird missed. I'm 6'2 235 and I get in and out ok, but we don't have door bars, yet. I also agree that if it's going to be a track car/street car I would avoid the LT1/LT4, but I'm an old school carb guy. The other thing on LS1/T56 swap is the tunnel on the early C4's. I don't think it fits very well (scratches head) if I remember correctly on the '91 and older cars. The 84-85 Z51 stock suspension stuff is that some companys sell as sport packages. Trackbird is also correct about the brakes. The 91 is the one to have, but the 96 looks better. Then again I am partial to the early C4 body style.......

Not me, I'm just a wanna be, that is why I keep hanging around you and Glenn.

Speaking of which, where is that video.....

Lets talk Vettes at MSR-C. The nice thing in my book is whatever Vette you pick, you can't go too far wrong with them. I have a bunch of pictures and data from my cars, I'll try to dig it up and bring it along.

Jeff

The tunnel is just fiberglass, so easy to mod - On this one I cut out the big pocket for the 4+3, riveted a plate over it for a TKO: Plenty of room underneath for a fabricated Cbeam bracket.

What car?

Focus ....

Now I stumbled across a, 05 CTS-V ...

Well, I think you should FOR SURE drop the Focus from the list...those are little sh!tboxes...

Go with the vette of the ctsV for sure!!





Costas
cars and such...

Hmmm... CTS-V. I'm so close to buying one of them if the dealer would just get the interior cleaned up like they said they would. It's been almost 3 weeks since I gave them my deposit!!!

WHO is that heavenly ANGEL in the driver's seat??!!

http://www.californiaclassix.com/ She's in marketing.

Check out the hall of fame, lotsa cool cars.

My sister had a 92 c4. Probably one of the worst cars that I've known, and I'm a chevy guy. Had electronic gremlins and would strand her at times.

I found her a low mileage formula for a great price. She's had it for 4 years without a hiccup, except for a bad catalyst.


I don't care at all for the styling of the c4, but opinions are like assholes, everybody has at least 1.

Found an 87, recent motor and trans ... $4K.

I had a 92 C4 and an 01 Z06. Honestly, the C4 was more fun than the Z. The C5 (especially the Z06) can be fast, but it has much more of a "Grand Touring" feel than a true "sports car" feel like the C4. My 92 car was an FX3 with six speed, and the only mods were the larger C4 brakes and 11" rear wheels (with 315s). It was turning the same times at our local roadcourse as stock C5s during NCCC time trial events. My Z06 however, was significantly faster around the same track bone stock. My C4 and most stock C5s would turn about 1:34s, while the 01 Z06 completely stock was 1:29. For me, if I were to buy another (and I've been seriously thinking about it), I'd go for a C4. I'd love to get a 95 ZR1, but for the prices lately I think the LT1/LT4 cars are just too good to pass up. I've seen plenty of high mileage LT1 C4s going for the $8K-9K range. And as for reliability, the later model dash cars (90+ I think?) didn't really have many problems. The biggest issues were either the radio/speakers (which can be replaced easily) or the opti on 92-94, which you should upgrade to vented style the first time you change it (which will fix most of it's reliability issues).

Since this thread is back at the top, are there any common issues that would make a '91 C4 smell like coolant? My buddy has one that his wife picked up for him for his 50th birthday (he had always wanted a 'vette) and he just told me it needs a clutch and head gaskets. The clutch I can understand, but a SBC needing head gaskets and it's bone stock? It just doesn't add up.

Seems like the L98's pop head gaskets pretty easily if they over-heat, at least I've seen several threads on CorvetteForum with popped head gaskets on L98's.

Many of the TPI C4's had intake leaks up by the thermostat. You'll usually see it if that's the cause. I've looked at more than a few of those over the years. Seems common that the bolts are loose (gasket "gives"? Or an overheating issue? Not sure) and the gasket is leaking.

Or you could dump the opti altogether and upgrade to the coil pack (a la LS engines) ignition from LTCC.

Great system, but very pricey (maybe not worth it on a less than stellar condition LT series C4).

I have an LTCC setup, and they aren't that expensive. I got a set of coils for $100, plus $400 for the controller and harness. I made my own brackets for about $15, plus $60 for some universal plug wires. For that price, it is well, well, WELL worth it to never do an opti-spark replacement in the pits ever again, EVER, plus my plug wires are now 4" long instead of 20" long and wrapping under the power steering pump.

Did you buy it?