I asked a few others (co-workers, local F-body board etc) but thought I'd ask here as well since I trust the judgement and value the opinions on this board. First of all I have never ridden a motorcycle, but have toyed with the idea for the past few years. I got my motorcycle permit last week and am taking an MSF course in a couple of weeks. As you can probably guess I want a sportbike. I have a 30 mile one way commute on 2-lane roads and the interstate (70 mph+). I'd mainly be getting it as a toy, but I'd like to be able to ride to work too so I can somewhat justify it in my head. I have thought about track days, but that is a ways away if ever.

I've had recommendations ranging from a 250 all the way to a 750 sport bike (Ninja 250r, R6, or GSXR 600 or 750). Thoughts?

For a starter sport bike, I'd get a cheap used Suzuki Katana. They are fast enough for an adrenaline rush for a squid, but they are mild enough to learn on as long as you use some common sense. Compared to the likes of an R6 or a Gixxer 600, they are slow turds and you'll be ready to step up in 1-2 years depending on how comfortable you are. But last I knew you could get older used Katana's pretty dirt cheap. Get one for your first bike, take care of it and if you buy one old and cheap enough you can probably break even when you go to sell it.

I don't have tons of experience with the really new bikes, all my buddies had them back 2002-2006 and thats when I was riding them a fair amount. (I have a Honda Shadow 1100 Sabre, I prefer crusiers) I will say that even some of the newer 600s are VERY fast. I rode a fairly new R6 a while back and it was so light I was shocked at how easily it would wheelie. My point is, be careful even on some of the newer 600s, they are not toys anymore. If you disrespect the bike, it will disrespect you in a hurry.

Buy an inexpensive/reliable used commuter bike. I learned to ride on a Yamaha Seca II (600cc). It doesn't make enough power to outright kill you (no 75 mph wheelies becaused you twitched the throttle) and you'll probably wreck it anyway (the one I learned on was wrecked/dropped half a dozen times by the owner and friends). My other friend bought one used with 300 miles on it and it has 70k on it now (also wrecked a few times). Once you survive a year or so on something like that, then consider a sport bike.

I ultimately totalled a 1993 Katana 750 (in 1993) doing something stupid. After clearing the handlebars and landing in a field at 100+ mph, I decided to stick to cars. Your results may vary.

I was honestly considering an '08 or '09 Ninja 250R, but everyone I've talked to has told me I'll be bored with it after a month or two. Not to mention the laughs I got

I'd avoid the 250's, they aren't really enough bike. Buy a v-twin or a 4 cylinder 600cc "commuter" bike and ride the wheels off of it. Buy used, learn to work on it, and ride a lot. It will save you fuel and speeding tickets and you'll have a far better chance of surviving your first year with minimal incidents.

If you're a bigger guy like me, a little bike will get boring fast. I was never into the sport bikes, but in the cruisers, the little motors just suck. I suggest you buy a used bike to learn on. Get a medium sized one so you don't hate it in few weeks, 600-750 is probably a good size since we're talking sport bikes. For a cruiser, I'd say 1100 minimum. After a year or two, you'll know what you really want and you can sell your starter and get something you'll enjoy for a long time.

6' tall 200-210 lbs a lot lighter than when most on here have seen me last.

I still have my first bike... an 05 500 Ninja (ex500). Bought it in the spring of 06 and put over 8k miles on it so far. I still have it because I'm not really tired of it yet. It's fast enough (for me anyway), handles great, super realiable, and was dirt cheap. I like the looks of it too, but that's a matter of opinion.
Like you, I was considering a new 250, but ended up buying the barely used 500 for about the same money. I'm convinced that was the right decision by far. I would not have been happy with the 250 for very long.
If I had to do it all over again as a beginner, I would probably be looking for a 650R Ninja, (They didn't make those yet when I bought mine) or a Suzuki SV650. The 2cyl bikes are much more forgiving with mistakes. You're less likely to do an unintended wheelie on them, but they'll still scoot when you wind them out. Shifting at 10k rpm allways makes me smile.

So yeah, those are my recommendations:
Ninja 500r (stupid cheap)
Ninja 650r (modern styling)
SV650 (tried and true realibility)

I second staying away from 250's. They might have enough power to get you in trouble...but the brakes generally suck on a 250. They also tend to cheap out pretty much anything else on an american market 250. My fiancee took the MSF course and got a nighthawk 750. Ultimately it was too big for her but she is a small girl and the 4 cylinder motor was just too heavy for her to handle. For me, as a rider of 15+ years, it was almost like riding a bicycle. I had a Shadow 750 (cruiser) in college, and it was okay, but uninspiring. I bought a VFR 750 to replace it with...and I've loved it ever since. I've had a few other bikes come and go, but my VFR stayed. It has a V4 so it has enough torque to tool around under 5K rpm. When you want to scream, it has a 12K RPM red line. Just under 100HP at the rear wheel, and I've run 11 sec 1/4 times on it, bone stock. There are a bunch of bikes in the category the VFR is in, the "sport touring" category. I had a BMW K1200RS for a while that was in the same category...but obviously a lot bigger motor. I found that I *really* enjoyed the BMW on highway trips, but in town, it was just too big and heavy for me. Since I didn't make too many out of town trips, I sold it. The mpg on the BMW really sucked too...32-35 unless I was doing 65 on the highway with the cruise on. On the VFR I get about 45mpg riding to work daily, about 52-53 on the highway. One thing the VFR could use is cruise control...but maybe I'm just getting old. If you have enough sense to not ride like an idiot, you can get away with a "powerful" first bike.

Good luck!

a few of my friends have SV650's. They are relatively low maintenance fun bikes... Another buddy has an SV1000S...that bike is FUN!

Here's a pic of my 500r...
http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq169/z...pg?t=1274715649

I bought a used SV650 about 4 years ago as my first bike. I really wanted a GSXR600 but actualy listened to a bunch of experienced riders who all made good arguments for not going with something like that as a first bike.

Anyway I think its a really good first bike. Its fast enough for a rush when you get on it. I use mine mainly for commuting in the summer. The low end torque of the v-twin is actualy really nice for around town riding. Also some things to note is it is most certianly more comfortable then my buddys 600RR and gets much better gas mileage. I manage to get somewhere around 53MPG where he gets somewhere in the 30's.

I'll second the SV650 / Ninja 650 ideas.. great platform, lots of aftermarket support, and can make great trackday bikes. Light & easy to handle as well. With you wanting to commute, some good textile gear that's breathable and slides on over your street clothes will be a great investment.

STAY AWAY from anything with an "R" on it.. CBR, GSXR, R6, R1, etc... Those bikes are truly racebikes with lights and will reward novice mistakes as such. I hate seeing new riders on them.. The other bikes will make you a better rider in the end.

FZ1



~DaVe

Honda VFR, a reasonably recent one can be had for relatively modest money. Should be a fantastic commuter bike and I bet it would be fine at a "get acquainted" type of track day, too. I think the FZ1 is fantastic, too for the same reasons. Run away from 250s, you'll be sick of it in a week and you won't be able to get rid of it. Smallest bike I'd recommend would be an SV650 (600cc sportbikes are "bigger" in the power dept and therefore "bigger" bikes). All motorcycles will go fast enough to kill you so gear up and ride within your limits and you should be fine.

My first (and previous) bike was a Kawasaki ZRX1200, fwiw. I swapped it for a KTM 300EXC

With regards to the SV650 what do you all think of the ABS option?

Mine dosent have it. But I would imagine that its kind of like having an airbag in a car. You probaly will never use it but if you do you will be glad you have it.

But I don't have any first hand experience with a bike with ABS.

I always recommend getting something older and easy to work on for a first bike. It is an opportunity to learn and the odds are that if you are ever going to tip or wreck a bike it is about 85% likely to happen in the first year of riding.

Old Jap cruisers are great to learn on, Honda CB's or Kawasaki LTD's would be my bikes of choice for learning. Plentiful and a breeze to work on. Just avoid the 4 carb Kawa's, that was the only mistake of my first bike, they can be a PITA to synch properly.

-Tim

I put nearly 10K miles on the BMW K1200RS which was an ABS bike. Only once did I use the brakes hard enough to engage the ABS. Much like when you experience your first ABS in a car, it was a little unsettling. I doubt it would have made a difference either way, but I can see it being beneficial on bad pavement. I'm just used to my non-ABS bike which I do occasionally lock up the rear under heavy braking.

Much of that 4 carb pain goes away with a vacuum sync tool...I made that investment when I first bought my VFR. I've done many a sync job for friends as a result...

The Honda VFR is a great bike, and I and another friend embarrassed some pure sportbikes at VIR with them...but. especially with the side-mounted radiators, they don't take even parking lot tipovers very well... That's my only reason to not recommend it. Other than than, it's a smooth-riding bike and a fantastic all-around scoot.

I guess it all depends on how responsible of an adult you are? I put a few years in on a RM125, stroked it to 151, and gave it to a friend after awhile. I'd spent about 1hr on sport bikes during that time... And then four years of no riding anything later I bought my first street bike - a brand new off the showroom floor Buell 1125CR. It's a lot of bike, but I don't go around riding like a moron 99% of the time. I was pretty timid on it at first, but feel I know it better now (2500miles, bought it in November). It's seen rain, night, day, fog, etc. Riding in the rain is...pucker factor 9. I test rode a CBR600 RR for a friend in February - slower, but still fast. Definitely not the accidental wheelie machine that the 1125CR is. Honestly loved the ride of the RR and I don't think it's a prone to biting people as I'm told as I felt very comfortable on it and it seemed forgiving, more than the Buell at least. I rode it for 30-40 minutes at a decent pace, too.

I have two unintentional wheelies (0 on purpose) under my belt. Sky high at 75 will make you rethink certain things in life... I'm getting 35mpg overall with 90% being in town/traffic - the majority of my riding is under/at 5k RPM and 1/4 throttle. Real time says mid-50s highway, and 40s in town. The real time is probably close to actual considering idle time and a whack of the throttle now and then. I love the 1125CR. It's different, it's reliable, it was cheap due to HD's brilliance (haha), and I'll never outgrow it. There is way more bike than rider to the combination. I'll be lucky to ride it to 8/10s of the bike's ability...hell 7/10s...5/10s even probably. It's wicked fast and corners amazingly well. I will track it at some point for curiosities sake.

In general, to me:
1. For long highway rides, a front fairing is pretty much a requirement. I really hate mine after riding the RR. I plan on adding a windscreen or converting my bike to use the 1125R front. Laying on the tank @ 75-80 for any distance sucks and doesn't help that much as I still get loads of buffeting. The RR @ 80 feels like mine @ 30...sitting up in the seat on both. Tucked and it's more like the RR @ infinity vs. mine @ 0mph. Wind sucks.

2. Torque is handy, but too much is bad. The peaky powerband of the RR (inline 4) would probably not be much fun to DD. I do a lot of city riding (sub 50mph), so it's nice to put around. A V-twin is great for this. Tractable, a little harder to kill from a stop, etc. Mine makes for an easy wheelie, however - V-twin downside. 1st gear is no man's land with anything over 3/8 throttle. Even laying on the tank it can be hard to keep the nose down in 2nd.

3. The MSF folks are adding some new additional courses in bigger cities at some point. If they are already offered and you have the opportunity, take them too. I had to unlearn a LOT of dirtbike habits for the street and the basic MSF course was a boon of info in that regard. It's a good start. The newer advanced courses should be a big benefit.

4. ABS would be nice. I don't have it. I would like it after locking down the rear once (didn't let off of course) - cold tires + cold brakes + cold road = hard to panic stop.

Pro tips:
1. Respect your machine. A Ninja 250 will kill you just as fast as an R1.

2. Everyone is trying to kill you/You're invisible. It's one or the other. If they look directly at you pulling on to street/turn lane, THEY CAN'T SEE YOU! Never, never forget that. No one sees bikes. I ride with my brights on (daytime). NO ONE SEES YOU. EVER.

3. Also, mirrors. Use them.

4. Look by turning your head before a lane change. Your mirrors lied to you about that empty lane.

5. Tailgating is stupid. Don't be stupid.

6. ATGATT - All The Gear All The Time. If you have a Shoei head, get the RF1000 (older) or the 1100 (new). I have a TZR, the extra aero bits are worth the cost on the RF.
If you have an Arai head, ask someone that wears one and get an equivalent. I have ICON gear because it's the best of what I could afford at the time. It's textile so it'll probably last for at least 1 wreck. Mesh will probably be 1 and done. Leather is best. I have the ARC jacket and pants. If you have a jeans workplace, get some A* 1.5 denim jeans. You can add kneepads and they look good enough to work in. I would like something with hip pads, but no one makes what I want. I run all the padding in the jacket plus an Icon Field Armor vest. Dainese has a very nice looking piece of armor, the V Neck Wave jacket. When I upgrade to leathers I'm also getting that to replace my FA vest. My boots are Sidi and my gloves are ICON full length with CF knuckles. I wear a load of gear, I'm in Texas, it's hot, I don't care. I want my survival odds as high as possible. I recommend that you get some combination of gear that makes you feel comfortable and feel safe. I have an ICON MilSpec yellow vest I wear in the mornings most of the time. It is bright/reflective as the damn sun...People still DO NOT SEE ME! Do what you want, but I'd like to be around for a long time.

7. Earplugs. Save your hearing, You lose some local hearing of cars. I still hear horns, sirens, screeching tires, etc. I can't hear cars next to me, but with my bike (very loud stock), I couldn't anyways. The lack of earplugs makes me feel like sensory overload.

8. Small shifts in weight, throttle application, hand/wrist movement, clutch/brake application can make big attitude shifts in the bike. Be gentle...it's your wife, not the 20yr mistress. Unless that's your wife and then, well, hell...

9. Head in the game man, head in the game. Make your brain work for you on the ride. Zone out and eat a curb. Bad things... Guaranteed you'll be concentrating more than anyone in a car around you. Situational awareness is a lifesaver.

I would say an SV650S would be great to start. V-twin, tons of info on forums, relatively cheap maintenance, aftermarket parts - susp/power/gear (bags and other farkles), reliable, easy to work on. Ride it slow, respect the hell out of the bike. I was just going to say SV650S and then all this crap got typed out. Sorry...

PS: NO ONE SEES YOU!

- I suggest buying the exact bike that you want regardless of your experience.

- Be aware that used bikes have typically been worked on by clueless owners. You could easily put yourself into a dangerous situation by buying a used bike. It's OK to buy used, but you need to know what you're looking at.

- The Yamaha FZ6 and FZ1 are easy bikes to ride. That doesn't mean that they aren't dangerous. They're as fast as any other 600cc or 1000cc bike out there, but the ergonomics are great and the handling is intuitive. The FZ series is more difficult to ride fast than other sportbikes because they lack road feel especially in the front end. You can not buy fork upgrades for the FZ6, you might be able to get them for the FZ1.

- The SV650 is only considered a "starter bike" because it has about 65-70hp. It is NOT a starter bike, it is a fast bike. The SV650 is easy to ride fast. The front end feels very light on a SV650 due to the motor design and placement in the frame. This bike gives you the confidence to enter corners at a much higher speed and carry higher corner speeds. The SV650 also makes a great race bike and there are plenty of class participants. The SV1000 merely looks like an SV650, but it does not handle like one. The front end is not upgradable on a 650, but you can install virtually any GSXR 600, 750 or 1000 front end onto the bike.

- All the 600cc sport bikes are good; the Yamaha R6 seems to be the hot ticket for privateer racers currently.

- There isn't anything wrong with buying a Ninja250. They are as fast as any other bike in the turns. Kawasaki really stands by their 250 designs. The Ninja 250r was only recently revised for the first time in 20 years. The bike only has 25-30hp, so on the highway you will be revving the motor at about 9,000-11,000 rpms and the bike is not very fuel efficient in that rpm range.

- All the Italian sport bikes are more difficult to work on when compared to the Japanese bikes. It will cost you a lot more to pay someone to maintain an Italian bike. Suzuki's are the easiest Japanese bike to work on.

- Any sport bike that you buy will benefit from a proper geometric set up and a properly built suspension. When you're ready to go racing, give us a call. http://www.cyclemall.net

- You are going to crash, so get geared up. Do me one favor and use a proper full face helmet. Do not buy a swivel jaw helmet, the jaws swivel back during crashes. It really does hurt to crash on your face. I suggest buying a Shoei X-Eleven helmet.

I'll parrot many of the others and suggest an SV650. I had one as my first sport bike, and loved it to death; it ended up being my last sport bike also. It's not as fast as a 600cc I-4 bike, but it's plenty fast for 99% of the riding normal people do. It's lightweight and has good brakes. I commuted to work on mine, did track days with it, and toured through Tennessee and North Carolina on it. It's not the ultimate track bike, or the ultimate tourer, or the ultimate commuter, but it does all 3 really well. Last year, I rented a Yamaha FZ6 in New Zealand for a week of touring, and to be honest, I liked my old SV650 better.

I had mine for 5 years, put about 14,000 miles on it, and recently sold it. Why did I sell it, you're wondering? I woke up one morning, and was afraid to ride it to work. Not sure what happened, but I listen to the little voice when it tells me not to do something. So I sold it, and bought a dirt bike.