Hello guys!

I am an "old member" of this forum, and even though I have been here for a while and I do not post lot... read a lot nontheless.

Well, I consider myself a true fan of the 4th gen F body platform, to the point the car I have chosen to put all my "nuts" in haha! I got my F ride directly from one dealer back in 1999, brand new, and the improvement over the car has always been step by step... Unfourtunately, yesterday at the tuffest race track we have here in México, my luck and proud encountered a wall tuff enough to challenge them:

Couple of guy from security checking before towing:


Once in the parking lot:


Before:


Yesterday, my humor and will was prettey much as the car!! Today, the thing that comforts me the most, its my oldest and most experienced friend saying: -"Rudolph"... "there are 2 types of people in the racing department... the ones that have been involved in a crash, and the ones that will be, sooooo... fix the car as well as you can, and jump in again". I know that many of you guys have had, some kind of experience, such as the one am in, but damn, it is tuff.

Now, on the serious side!! I am only hoping I can find the most experienced guy that can help me to leave the car as it was before, meaning, "HANDLING", structural integrity, and at last, look as well as before.

If you guys, have some sort of comments on straighten the "chassis" (I know it is not a chassis literally) by all means, do it. I fear the car may never be the same again, talking about performance in the handling department, I will try it tough.

Anyway, thanks for reading.

Rodolfo Lara Pohlenz

Ouch man I'm sorry to see what happened thank goodness you're okay! Best of luck for whatever you choose to do. I wish I could offer you some advice.

Rudolph,

Oh man...I'm a little sick just looking at the pics. You have an absolutely beautiful car. When pics pop up, I always check them out. The wheels, everything. That car is fantastic.

Glad to hear you're ok. Sorry about the damage. Ugh. I'd find the best body guy you can and have them look it over. It will depend on how much damage was done to the suspension mounting points and if any of them moved (and how far they moved). If you find the right body guy, he'll be able to tell you if it can be pulled into shape and fixed. I'm guessing it probably can, but I haven't seen the under side of the chassis. The rear axle looks to be in about the right place, so hopefully the damage is all to the rear of the suspension mounting points (the PHB mounts might be tweeked based on where they are located). Take it to a good shop and see what they have to say.

Let us know what you find out.

It is always hard to see pic like this. Glad your OK though.

It may not be really as bad as it couldve been.
Looks like the doors still open & close ok, the T-tops are in place.
So it likely just has most of the damage to the rear trunk tub & frame area.
A good frame guy can fix it correctly.

Kevin,

Thank you very much for your words, I really consider them a lot; you being a knowledgeable guy that I respect a lot.

The Hermanos Rodriguez (HR) race track, is a fast one, and my first time with the car as strong as it is now. I do not want to look for a justification to my mistake, but my car did remember me that I should not underestimate it, and that control is an illusion. I was coming out of a turn (70 mph) and the car started (as usual) to oversteer, but I am REALLY use to it, so what I do is to counter steer, and when I tought I had it, I loose on the gas, and instantly at that time, it kicked back to the oposite side, and I hold it, but the next one I did not expect it, so, after that the car spun and I became a mere passenger going backwards into the wall, and even though I pressed the brake pedal with all I had, the impact was there. Posi Units work under load, but once you loose on the gas it work weird.... A good friend did remember me that.

BTW, I just checked the car underneath. The impact point was absorbed by the bumper structure, and I could see little deformation on the upper point where the coilovers hold, making the rubber busing that avoids the rearend to hit into the body, go outside (tire side), and so the inner lip of the structure, went into the opposite side. What is funny, is that due to the momentum, the healthy side received some damage, making the LCA of that point collapse on the holding points. The fue tank went forward, the rear end looks fine about the position, obvioulsy, considering the LCAs deformations. Maybe it will not be as tough as I thought.

Tomorrow morning (here is a Holiday) I will call Year One, to ask about the cost of a new panel, in order to cut the one is all twisted, and weld a new one (after straighten the car, of course). Looks that one dealer close to home, still has some parts on stock for 4th gen Fbody.

We will see how thing end.

Thanks a lot again Kevin.

Have a great day.

Rodolfo Lara Pohlenz

I backed an '89 Formula Firebird into a hillside years ago, it was the same situation. It got loose, I caught it, it snapped the other way, I caught it again and about the third time I ran out of steering travel to catch it. It went around and I put both feet in. I bumped the hillside on the drivers rear corner and scratched up the bumper cover pretty good. Looks like we hit in the same place. Lucky for me I had bled off almost all of my speed before hitting the dirt hillside and the damage was far less. I was about 21 at the time and out doing this stuff in places I shouldn't.

Once I tore that same '89 Formula apart to put a roll cage in it I found that the roof, front fender, door and rear quarter panel (all on the passengers side) had been grafted onto that car from a couple other cars (the car was black, the roof, front fender and rear quarter panel was originally blue, and the door was originally red. Then I found that the formed hoops in the transmission tunnel had been compressed. The car had apparently been hit very hard, pulled out, pieced together and it aligned and ran straight and true. It's amazing what a body shop can fix (though I suspect it should have been totalled, but someone at the body shop likely bought it and fixed it).

Man that is too bad. I hate to see bent up cars.


I keep hearing that you guys are starting a CamaroMustang Challenge like series in Mexico. Have you heard about it?

Rudolph, you may want to try to invest in a clean 4th Gen shell to either transfer parts over to, or cut panels off of. I'd think that finding one that's pasted in the front end would be pretty easy, and cheap. The panels on it would be the same metallurgy and thickness of the stuff that's coming off. They'll fit a ton better than the replacement parts, AND, you'll have other parts available in case you find something under the car that needs replacement that's not available any other way.

You didn't pop the rear glass, which is a good thing. The way the front part of the fender folded, I'm thinking you probably had trouble opening the driver's door. Did you, or did the door open okay?

Good luck with the rebuild. That's a nice ride.

I am happy, because today, a couple of guys that have a race shop (car tuners), are also devoted to fix the cars that crash at the tracks or street due to extra horses hehe! We lifted the car, they took pictures, made comments, gave an estimate, and even talked about quality paint. They told me that due to the subframe connectors I use (custom made), and the thickness of them, the impact was absorbed. The bad point, is that they will have to straighten the whole car, because with extra care, they analized that the passenger side door had a 1/2in gap, which obvisouly means the structure twisted a bit more. They asure me that car will be once more, in good shape.

The repair cost is estimated in $3,500 USD ($45,000 pesos), considering that the labor in México is far cheaper than in USA. Those guys at the repair shop, will pick the car next week and they say they will have ready at most, in one 5 weeks.

I was really worry about the paint, which was the original one, as came from factory, but the guys laugh at me, saying the paint I got, is the chapest one. They say, that with some extra pesos, we could upgrade the paint, but not sure, because my wallet is not healthy at the moment hehehe!

I will talk to Unbalanced (sponsor of this forum) for new LCAs and PHB. One LCA is damaged, a bit, but is going to be better to get a new one. The PHB looks ok, but rather have a new one.

Anyway, I will keep posted about the repair. Thank you very much for your time.

Rodolfo Lara Pohlenz

MMM!!! I have not heard such a thing. Track days are kind of new (6 to 7 years) in here, and rules are a joke, that is why I have a car with stereoids, and I can either race a Nissan GTR, a Mustang seriously modded or a Neon SRT-4 with big turbos. Rules are not in paper, and more than Trackdays, they look like time attacks, where a guy that just bought a fast car (you name it) and usually drives a Bettle, then comes into play withouth even know a thing about race tracks. Talking about rules and security, we are in diapers compared to you guys up there.

BTW, here in México in the state of San Luis Potosí, some guys are assembling a serial of old timers such as F-body 1st gen, as well as Mustangs. It is more like a low budget race car serial ($6,000 USD estimated, per car), where the point is to have fun, and be under rules, but, being honest, it is not something that will likely transcend, but it is just my opinion, or like guys say, just my $0.02.

Thanks a lot for reading bud.

Rodolfo Lara Pohlenz

I already found a 4th gean Camaro on a junk yard, that had an impact on the front, and the rear looks super clean. I agree with you that will be better to get an original part than a low quality replacement (expensive, btw).

About the driver's door, you are right. It was a problem to open, due to the collapse of the panel, braking the edge of the door (fiber glass as you know).

Thank you so much for the suggestion, I really appreciate it buddy.

Have a great day.

Rodolfo Lara Pohlenz

Hello friends:

Mexico is a land of magic and witchcraft, so our HR racetrack is filled of phantoms, ghosts, spirits at every corner. Some can be your friends, some other will plkay bad things on you if you don't happen to know them. Some other times they will play bad on somebody else, so you be very not to go on their bad tricks.

Ive been driving at this track since the early 70s, just because I was less than 16 perviously. On those times the track had a real banked big turn which it is now about 800 feet radius. It has been flattened nowadays. The straight, the longest is 3/4 a mile long while the shortest is about 1/4 mile. I consider it a fast track, perfect for a powerful big american ponycar.

The thing started when I told Rudolph to go walk the race course, so I could show him the little crevices where those rascal demons live and wait for you to go in to trouble. The particular turn where he lost the car is the last of three esses; the first coming from the main straight, the second, an intermediateleft where you set your entrance point for the last and third right what it more than 90 degrees, where Ive seen Formula ones and sports prototype cars loose control and do the same dance, because this is the kinf of turn where the car accumulates excessive yaw movement and acceleration which the bad track demons excite so you loose traction and go into oversteer. Once the car is accelerated in yaw it is very hard to regain traction and control because you usually loose ground contact at a point where the speed of the car is considerable.

It is a pity we could not go walk the circuit the previous weeks, as I suggested him for4 his debut at this track, so Rudolph could have at least learnt, that, in that, particular corner, you can outcheat the demons just by slightly delaying the power take off point on the beginning of the corner before the apex. As the jet fighter pilots say "Let them pass you" (The demons). All those spirits are there waiting for you. It helps to spy them and learn their tricks from somebody who has been cheated by them during all this years. Next time you visit the HR make sure some local wizard exorcises the demons from you before attempting your best laps.

Everything else is just routine; the money, the repair shop, etc. Just be ready for the next time by walking the track before you drive again.

My regards to all of you and don't forget your amulettes.

Rodofo... I just realized the guy I have talked with about building the series is located in Monterrey, Mexico.

Man, $3500US means you are getting away cheap for all that damage. That's awesome. The grade of paint is probably pretty cheap, but red paint in general is expensive. If you're going to continue to track the car, I'd probably opt for what you already have on the car, instead of spending the money on paint you won't want to get scratched.

Yes, It seems the rumor is correct, because I have been told fron some Monterrey guys, they are getting rid of their VW racing Beetles in exchange for the american pony cars for the proposed new series.

I will ask, see what I can find.

Regards.

That car will be back in no time....and look BETTER while doing it!

Hahaha!! Bud!! Remember that "hand-labor" in México is way cheaper than in USA, and those $3,500 USD is just the low estimate, where they told me it could scale to $4,500 (still cheap, I guess). The paint is going to be factory quality (Dupont), even tough they told me I could scale to great quality(45% more expensive) and supreme quality paint (150% more expensive). I just told them to leave it the way it was, so, by now Dupont is what I want.

I am serious when I tell you, I would not mind to install supreme quality paint, but now the wallet is a bit sick hehe.

Have a great day, and thank you so much for sharing your knowledge.

Rodolfo Lara Pohlenz

Thanks bud!! I appreciate you comments

Rodolfo Lara Pohlenz

I'm not on here very much either, but this caught my eye. Looks the exact same as mine after I was rear ended by a Ford Explorer. They fixed it, and I'm sure they will fix yours as well. I know its tough but I think that's a good price. The back end of mine was around 7,000, 8 years ago. Although I didn't pay it and the front was tore up as well so the total bill was a lot more. Sorry to hear about this, but it will get better.

I should add that mine was fine after they straightened it at a Chevy dealer. BUT, it does seem to eat the posi every 20,000 miles or so (stock posi). Various family members have been driving it, but hopefully in a year or two I'll be turning it into a track only car, and that won't matter any more. Anyway, tell them to take their time and try to get it straight so nothing has odd torques on it. Other than that minor issue, mine was fine, and I'm sure yours will be as well in a few weeks.

Thanks a lot bud! I really appreciate your comments.


Now, I was a bit mistaken!! The cost was only laaabor and it did not included the parts!! So, besides $3,500 USD, I will add another $1,500 USD. At the end, $5K, which I think is not that bad.

Have a great day.

RLP

Well, to all that have been giving the best wishes on the repair of my ride, here is an update, and to be honest quite nice:

New panel and straight (blue donor hehe!):




Aligned completly:



Fixing:



Main details:



Well!! After looking at the pictures, I can tell you we measure the car on every point, thanks to the support of Jim Mueller and Trackbird that helped me with the Camaro's structure measuments (Helms manual), and.... everything matched, within tolerances of 3 to 4 millimeters.

Now the car looks like Frankenstain, but at least straight on the lines wich at the end is what matters!! The paint job is going to take 2 weeks, and is going to be with a better paint.

Thanks a lot for reading.

Rodolfo Lara Pohlenz

That's great news and the car looks great! Glad to see it's going back together quickly. And I can't really claim any credit for helping, that all goes to Jim. Keep us posted on the rest of the repair.

Thats a beautiful car.

I love myself the really hardcore racing games, and on an old game I played growing up called Grand Prix Legends, they had that track on it. Lots of very oddly cambered corners, made it a lot of fun. I'd love to drive it in real life to compare, although the track in the game is based on the 1967 layout.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_omMI1x2X0o

Just in case you're curious.

Hello.

I have some updates on the car repair, which I must say, is moving forward in a very constant way.

About to receive new paint:


One more:


And... another one:


Fixed:




To be honest, the pictures, most of the times (and this is the case) do not make justice to the real look, but really... it is looking good.

The guy that is working on the car, says it is going to be ready by next monday. I will let you know.

Thanks a lot for reading guys

Hello again.

Dear guys from frrax, and mostly the ones that have been reading the updates on my ride repair, after a found tough, hard, killer wall at the Hermanos Rodriguez Race Track. Well, I finally, and happily, can give the final update, where one mexican artesan and friend, repair my car with great care, and devotion, so the results can be seen here:



Panel previously damaged, and now....









Now, the rest, due the paint job, looking ultra cool:











At the end, all I can tell you is that I AM WAY HAPPY witth the repair! At the end, the cost was of $5,700 USD, and being honest, for me was not that expensive, considering the great job my friend did.

The important thing I can get of this experience, is that things were made to enjoy, and my car is ready for round 2 at the track... honestly hoping not to be within a bad situation soon.... And if we do, hoping we can move back on our feet again.

Thanks a lot for the help provided guys, and to all the guys that cheer me up, I THANK you a lot.

A hug from Mexico City,

Rodolfo Lara Pohlenz

Well, I think it's safe to say, that was worth every penny. They did a fantastic job.

Rodolfo,

The car looks amazing!!! They did an outstanding job! I'm very glad to hear you're going to take it back to the track soon. I didn't want to see you quit doing track days. And I still love that car!!!

Nice to see a body repair guy take pride in his work, he fixed your car RIGHT....not just enough to get by with.

That guy is well aware that his signature is on your car, he did a great job.

Looks really nice ... job well done!

Did they do the pink Jeep as well?

Cars are just nuts and bolts ... enjoy them.

very nice job

Wow, what a very clean repair!

I am impressed!

Thanks a lot my friend!! I really appreciate your words. For sure, I will not quit on track days, they are something I love to do, as car enthusiast.

Rodolfo

Funny that you mention it! My friend Raul, the one that fixed the car, has that saying "Every work I do, is a presentation card at the eyes of other people"

Thanks a lot.

Rodolfo

Thanks a lot Mitch!!! When I started equiping my car, I always tought about it as a track day and short trips car, and I strongly believe that all serves to a porpouse, base on what things are made for..

About the pink Jeep hehe!! Well, my little lady thinks that his car has to be next to dad's toy.

Thanks a lot.

Rodolfo

I think too, it was worth every penny every time I look at my car

Thanks a lot.

Rodolfo

Thanks a lot.

Rodolfo

Looks great Rodolfo. Your bodyman did a fantastic job! I recently hit a concrete retaining wall at a local hill climb. I did set a record that day for my class and was trying to push a little harder.
I was really mad with myself for hurting my 35,000 mile 02 SS as it was fairly mint. Here's a pic of my damage:

I hope I can find a guy locally to me (B.C. Canada) and hope my car turns out as good as yours!

Looks great, better than mine, if anything happens to me again I'll be taking a rather long road trip from Chicago!

Looks fabulous Rodolfo! I hope mine looks that good (albeit in blue) whenever I decide to repair it.

MMM!!! Terrible!! I am sorry for the damage bud!! But for sure it is fixable.

Cheer up!

RLP

Hehe!! Whenever you need help bud!! just let me know.

RLP