http://www.examiner.com/article/the-2013-c...aps-vir-2-58-34

Looks like a pretty competent package, and that guy can DRIVE! Not bad for 4000 lbs, I thought.

What are you guys running for lap times at VIR? What cars, what mods? I wonder how competetive the 1LE will be in SCCA, CMC, etc?

Discuss. This may be my next track day car, once they're used and affordable . . .

I really like the looks and that its setup for the track.

I also would like to compare some times at VIR so I can have an understanding where it stands.

That must be the 4.2 mile "grand" course.

A CMC car will turn something around 2:15 on the more common "full" course.


Edit:....it is the Grand course. I didn't see the video at first. I don't know, it's a lot of money for a Camaro. I think I'd like it better if it wasn't so heavy. I have a feeling running hot lap after hot lap, you're going to melt your tires and brakes.

I find it hard to believe that the 1LE ran that quick compared to these cars.

Far more importantly, the official time for the Camaro 1LE is 4.46 seconds quicker around VIR than the 2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302 Laguna Seca – the $49k muscle car at which GM has taken aim with the new Camaro 1LE.

The 2013 Chevrolet Camaro 1LE’s time around VIR of 2:58.34 is also better than the 2010 Ford Shelby GT500 (2:58.48), the 2009 Audi R8 V10 (2:59.50) and the 2011 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe (3:04.20). In the list of 22 vehicles that turned in quicker laps than the 2013 Camaro 1LE are some incredible sports cars including the 2013 Ford Shelby GT500 (2:58.00), the Ferrari 430 Scuderia (2:54.60), the Lamborghini Murcielago LP 670-4 SuperVeloce (2:53.90), the 2008 Dodge Viper SRT10 ACR (2:48.60) and the Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 – which turned in a track record time of 2:45.63.

http://jalopnik.com/5931109/camaro-1le-around-the-block

I think you have to be careful when you make comparison to the other published lap times. Most of those time come from the Car and Driver Lightning lap comparison they do each year while this lap time was from a GM factory driver. For example, during the last Lightning Lap they tested a ZR1 w/ Cup tires but only got a time of 2:50.7 which I thought was a somewhat disapointing time. Come to find out by reading the article it rained 3 of the 4 days they were at the track so they got very little track time in the cars. Then at a later time GM came to the track with a ZR1 on Cup tires and turned a 2:45 with Jim Mero driving. That was the same trip they did 2:52 in the ZL1. So I would look at it that the 1LE was about 6 sec a lap slower than the ZL1 on a 4.2 mile track. I would be really suprised if the 1LE is really +4 sec faster than the Boss 302 with equal drivers and similar conditions.

Anyone know what a C5 Z06 will turn?

I wonder just how much lighter the Caddy ATS based 6th gen is going to be than this 1LE, AND if they will offer a 1LE version of THAT

If so, it might just be worth the premium they would be asking for it, given the right power/drivetrain, of course.

The 3.6l v6 ATS is about 3550lbs from what I've read. I can't imagine that an LS3 is much heavier than the 3.6l direct injection with dual overhead cams. My 2008 CTS has this engine and the car weighs about 4000 lbs., it's not fast. It's fun and goes alright, but it's not fast. Still, a 430 hp 3500-3600 lbs car would be fun.

...oh you must be talking about the late model 5.0 Mustangs then...

Other than differences in opinions on styling, I'm not sure why anyone would buy a 5th generation Camaro over an S197 Mustang. As far as I can tell the Mustang is better in every way. Ford is getting it right, and until GM loses some of the weight and fragile IRS components, they're going to be playing second fiddle.

I'll also mention that it's a shame the Challenger is so heavy and poor handling(compared to the other new pony cars). It's arguably one of the best looking of the bunch, and I think the hemi has potential.

The 6th gen F-body needs to weigh 3400lbs, cost $20k for a base V8 car and be styled after the 70-73 body style. Go back to the solid axle to keep the car light and cheap. Go back to offering something with a basic stereo, cloth seating and manual windows and locks. Not asking for AC and radio delete, but offer a base model that is actually basic. If I could buy something like that, I'd sell at least one of my cars and buy it....

I will take mine in white, thank ya.

Agreed, the '05+ mustangs are great cars (particularly the new ones with the coyote engine) and that the next Camaro needs a serious diet over the current car. I'm not 100% convinced the IRS is a problem, but I'm not convinced it's the right answer either. The IRS in the 'vette is great and it's not that fragile. I think IRS in the Camaro has potential, but needs work. I highly doubt GM can build a 3400 pound V8 Camaro anymore. No matter how "stripped" or basic it is. I think 3500 is about as light as we can hope for. Even the ATS with the little 2.0 turbo weighs over 3300 pounds.

^^^AGREED!

On the GM not being able to build a sub 3500# f body anymore; it would come down to what anyone would be willing to pay for a lightweight, TOTALLY stripped, (hopefully UNDER 3300 lbs.!!) 1LE, as those titanium, aluminum alloy, and carbon fiber/kevlar parts COST BIG $$$$$$$!

Personally, I think that there is NO REASON for the current Z06 to weigh more than 2800-2900 lbs., so I guess I'm crazy to think that they can build an f body under 3300 lbs., at ANY cost.

I wonder what they've done to the Continental Tire Challenge Camaro's? Anyone know what they weigh and how much power they are making? They are doing pretty good, just took 1st and 2nd a few days ago.

That's what I thought until I saw the 1LE lap times. And the Motor trend (?) comparo between the ZL1 and Laguna Seca 5.0 where the ZL1 seemed to be the better car, I really thought the Laguna Seca was going to be the be-all and end-all roadcourse car. And now the 1LE is supposed to be faster, too? There must be SOMETHING right about the new Camaro package. I've never been a big fan of the styling, but the looks of the ZL1 and 1LE are subtly better than a regular SS. The only major downside to the Mustang is that there are 10 zillion of them on the road.

I'll take my 1LE in white, as well, please . . .

All that weight HAS to be harder on tires and brakes.

I have yet to see a "new" Camaro that was fast on track, not one. Hell down here me and my buddy are the ONLY two F Body cars at HPDE events.

Saw Tony Cook one time at Barber, bad ass ride for sure.

Anyone know what's done to the Continental Tire Challenge Camaro's?

I don't know what all goes into Continental Tire Challege car or the GT class ALMS cars but I think they both start as a "body in white". So any similarities to a production car are mostly cosmetic.

The new 1LEs will be cool for sure. The problem is the weight. You can make them into capable track cars, but be prepared to spend some cash. The one I've tracked is amazing, but it has 15"+ front brakes, 640RWHP, and weighs ~4400lbs with me in the seat. Good enough for a 1:21 flat on street tires at Putnam Park in 104* heat, it ran cool the entire time, the ABS is bad ass, and it was totally driveable.

The downside is that you better be able to afford the consumables, because the weight likes to chew through them.

What was done to it to get that kind of power??

FASTFATBOY, finding a fast 5th gen at a track day is a rarity in my experience too. Look how long they've been on the market and not even one of us on this site owns one? That's gotta tell you something. The only time I've been around a fast 5th gen was at Gingerman last year on the motor state challenge. There was one there just barely behind me, but he had 560rwhp. I've got 100 less than that at the flywheel. With enough power you can make even an elephant fast I guess.

Heads, cam, headers, Magnusson 2300 blower. It's sweet, the thing will chirp 4th.

1meanZ: it went 1:36.3 at Gingerman short at Motor State this year and it had a 1:34 in it until I shifted into 5th instead of 3rd coming onto the front straight... on 200 TW street tires. AND, it drove home to Indy from the Autocross getting 26MPG.

I think we all see that spending $35k on a car to go slower than a car thats at least 8 years older and less than 1/2 the money is insane.

I buddy rented one at Road Atlanta with the paddle shifted auto and Brembo's and said it was ok but he is not real aggressive.

The guy I usually got to trackdays with has a lot of experience and rented the 6 cylinder paddle shifted one at Sebring and was fast in it. But he is pretty fast in anything.

I think people buy those cars because of the ohhh and ahhh factor more than anything else, guys like us realize that for $35k there are a LOT of faster lower maintenance options out there to go fast in.

Ran 3rd at Motor State in the Late Model Class. 1st was Danny Popp driving the Lingenfelter *cough* race car *cough* L28 and 2nd was Todd Rumpke driving his C6 Z06 that Danny Popp won the OUSCI in last year.

Car is owned by Bruce Raymond of Raymond's Performance in Indy. They've been doing a lot of 5th gen stuff since they came out and can build an awesome, honest street car. The car that got the nod to go to the Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational in Vegas didn't even have much of an interior...

I said the same thing about guys building race cars out of 4th gens when I got started (2006). It's all a matter of prospective, I'll bet you could find a wrecked SS in the 'teens somewhere.

If it's in the teens it's probably a total.


Then repair it, if it's repairable. Buying brakes and tires for one of those has to be through the roof. I like my $200 front pads and $650 a set NT-05's.


I agree the L28 car is a full blown racecar, I ran against that car in Arlington at the OUSCFO....its damn fast, but it outta be fast, LS7 powered and every bolt on part and all the weight reduction you can do to one of those cars. I feel pretty sure you could make a 4th gen that fast for a lot less money, God knows what it cost to build that thing.

Oh, OK, I figured it would need forced induction to make that much power without being a too high strung/near full race n/a engine.

Was that in a 1LE?? (Kinda seems to defeat the whole purpose. )

Supposedly the 5.5s in the C6Rs would make WELL NORTH of that 640 RWHP if they took the quarter sized inlet restrictors out of them, and tuned/injector sized them for the additional airflow.
But then again, they WILL NOT idle, or be functional on the street, being full race engines.

I went 1:48 last year and he was just a few 10ths behind me, we were on the long course.

so how much did the engine work cost on that car? Heads, cam, blower and exhaust has to be pushing $10k?

Those cars are showroom stock

Are you sure about that?

I always thought they were prepped to an SCCA T2 level, at the very least .

So I was waiting for a shuttle at the Chevy store today, killed some time by sitting in all the new cars and trucks - - Cruze, Volt, Regal GS, Suburban, Escalade, etc.

The only car I sat in and couldn't see the tach and speedo with the steering wheel adjusted for driving . . . was the Camaro . . .


WTF ???

Both of these cars, our shop car and the L28 are running Pedders suspension and prepped at our shop.They are both very fat and very fast the L28 is all high end from front to rear our car is still on the stock bottom end,clutch and rear axles.I do agree that the earlier f bodies are much cheaper to go fast but that's not what GM is giving us to work with these days.You will be able to see both of these camaro's at this years sema show and also competing in the Optima Ultimate Street car Challenge against some of the baddest "street cars" in the country.Last year the L28 was over 8 Seconds faster than any other modern pony car at the event and both of these cars are much faster this year.

Again, they would be MUCH more popular on here, IF there was a way to affordably lighten them, A LOT!