Hey guys. I have some questions about oil coolers.

How do I plum to the engine? I'm using a sandwich adapter for oil pressure and temp. There are two unused ports in that adapter. Can I use those for the oil cooler? One of those ports would be for the supply, but where does the return go? It's an LT1 with a Moroso pan.

My other question is are there any problems with mounting the cooler above the engine in the hood scoop? I'm planning on securin the lines to the bottom of the hood and run them down the drivers side hinge then to the engine. I can't imagine there would be any problems with the location, but I thought I'd ask in case you guys know something I don't.

I'm not going to run a thermostat for the oil. I'm just going to tape the back side of the cooler for street use.

I'm assuming LT1 style ss hood? I don't think the cooler would get much, if any airflow from that scoop.

LS1 hood, same difference. We don't need very large oil coolers, right? When I would track my 396 LT1, oil temps would only push 250 on hot days with no cooler. Short shifting would cool it down then I could go again. My thinking is it'll be less air than putting it behind the radiator but it'll be ambient as opposed to 200+ degree air.

For now I'm tracking a stock LT1, but will have a cammed LS1 later this year (or when the LT1 blows up.

Interesting idea, but I think you'll be spending a lot of time worrying about (or needing to worry about) how the lines are routed, and whether or not they're chafing some body or engine parts (with braided steel lines) or getting chafed by some body or engine parts (if they're not braided steel). Remember, the hood opens up and forward some. Additionally, those lines are heavy, and probably need support in several places when they're full of oil.

I guess I'll be the first to try it. If it doesn't work, I can always relocate it.

Obviously we know what an SS hood looks like.



The scoop opening isn't very large, but I think that's ok because it'll be cold air. Plus it won't have the restriction of passing through the radiator first.



Here's the back side. It's a much larger opening, so the air speed will drop, but it'll allow me to fit a decent size cooler there. I'm going to open it up as much as possible while leaving enough material to mount the cooler. I can fit a 15x4 oil cooler

So where do you ideally want the return line? The pan?

Do you have a front end conversion on your LT1 car?
Just wondering about where your air intake is.

Yeah I swapped my 99 parts car front even over to my 97. Next year I'll be putting an LS1 in it though. I'm planning on using a cold air intake down in the left front bumper area.

My opinion, I wouldn't put attached the oil cooler to the hood. I would put it low, either in front of , or directly behind radiator.
One reason is extra weight , which is above the center of gravity and the strain on the hood shocks.
Two I wouldn't want oil lines to move up and down with the hood. Opportunity for a failure/leak.

If you are determined to install the cooler in that space in the hood, I would mount it to the top of the radiator, so that its a rigid mount and doesn't go up and down with the hood.

I thought about the lines moving with the hood. Its something I'd have to keep an eye on. The weight of this aftermarket hood is considerbly lighter than the stock steel Z28 hood, so I think the weight of the cooler will be fine.

Where is your cooler on your cmc car?


Soooooo........where does the return line go????????

I'll scrap the idea. Maybe I'll try for somewhere in the bumper and duct cold air to it.

My radiator has a built in oil cooler, however, previous cars, I've put the oil cooler directly behind the lowest part of the radiator. That is where my power steering cooler is currently located. Very safe, secure and it will get plenty of air.
These coolers don't typically need fresh, forced air , just air movement across them is typically sufficient.

Return line ? I have always used a remote oil filter adaptor/ sandwich type. It is installed in place of the oil filter and has "inlet" and "outlet" ports. Below is what I have now, I'm sure they make them for the LT1.


http://www.canton.carshopinc.com/product_i...id/12349/22-593

Here is a photo of a sandwich type for an LT1 with oil filter. MOCAL EOC filter adapter with inlet and outlet ports.

Hey thanks for the help. I need to look at my adapter to see what ports it has ok it. I didn't realize they had an "in" and "out" on them. I thought they were all out.

Ill put the cooler behind the radiator. One more question. What size is recommended?

Thanks again,
Steve

This is what Canton sells for the LT1. They said it replaces the stock bypass. Is that necessary? Or can I get a cheaper one that just goes between the bypass and the filter?

You might be able to get an old oil cooler line assembly off a 94-96 Impala SS or Caprice 9C1. The rubber lines on them, or rather the connection from the hard line to the rubber lines, are prone to leak, so people just swap them out with the Doorman replacement. You could probably get that assembly from a junk yard for nothing. Cut the hard lines at the front of the engine, and attach your AN hoses to your cooler. Just another way to skin the cat.

Page with image of oil cooler adapter

&

Notes on replacing the oil cooler on a 9C1

And some more info here:

More Impala SS/9C1 oil cooler info

Interesting. I'll have to look into that. I really don't want to spend much on this engine because it's being replaced with an ls1 this year.

http://m.summitracing.com/parts/ear-510erl

Would something like this work? I don't think I have time to try to find a used part.

Anyone know if that adapter will work? I think it's the correct thread pitch.

If you're going to replace the engine later this year anyway, forget the oil cooler.

If you're worried about the oil breaking down, just change it more often and/or run a thicker oil.

I've had high temp problems on my AI car for a long time due to the radiator and inlet being too small. By high, I've see 260-270* WATER temp from May-Sept events. I don't run an oil temp gauge, but I'm assuming it would be pegged.

Guess what? Main bearings always look good because I change the oil and filter often. If the water gets to the 260* range, the oil only gets run for that weekend. Everything gets so hot that it starts melting the cam bearings, but they still last two seasons. Oil is Valvoline VR1 20w50.

Well what I'm afraid of is I'm running a stock Y pipe that I'm pretty sure is touching my canton oil pan. Just running around town I'll see 220 degrees. I'm afraid because of that, my oil temp will be way high. But if you had no problems with the temps you saw, maybe I will be fine. I was planning on running Rotella synthetic 5w-40. I use that in my diesel, boat and M3. It's a great oil.

Changing the oil often is a great recommendation. I've always heard that if the engine overheats, change the oil. Probably a great idea, as you can start cooking the good stuff out of the oil at elevated temps.

K.I.S.S.

Change the oil after every weekend if you see elevated oil temps. Figure the cost of oil + filter vs. oil cooler + plumbing (and replacing all of it if the engine happens to send shrapnel through it).

Your y-pipe pre-heater is good on the street if it gets the oil up to 220 degrees and cook off the condensation in the oil.

One thing I didn't mention is I have an unused oil cooler sitting in the garage. I was thinking a cheap adapter and some rubber oil lines and some fitting would be all I need. But, if you guys think I can get away with just changing the oil then I'm all for it.

So on a bone stock 120k junkyard engine, what are the max temps you'd like to see before you back off and let it cool?

Oil, or water temps?

Both. When am I going to do damage. I know there's really no hard number, but there has to be a general number for both.

Rule of thumb that I use for any engine, DD or race, is never let the water temperature hit 260F. If it does, cool the engine down using forced air (all my engines have electric fans) or cut if off completely. I take my water temp off the cylinder heads and run a mechanical gauge in the race car for an instant response. (It's scary the first time you chill the engine in the pits only to see the water temp start rising to 230F or so!)

For oil temps, I use 230F max for conventional (dino) oil and 280F for full synthetic. These are safety limits only. Most oil can handle further heat, but I don't want to push it. (I ran dino oil in the B Production Vette in the 70's and pushed the envelop out to 250F. Changed the oil and filter after every race weekend, but still found an incredible amount of sludge in the engine when it was time for a rebuild. Racing oils back then didn't have any detergents in them to reduce the amount of ash build up in the combustion chamber.)

During the 80's I switched to RedLine synthetic for the race car and Mobil 1 for the DD. RedLine tech support suggested running their oil up to 300F on a regular basis; but change it if I exceeded 320F. (They also recommended a minimum oil temp of 185F during racing conditions so don't over cool your oil.)

300, wow. I thought I read somewhere, and absolutely do not remember where, that if the oil temp got around 375, that was hot enough to start really softening the babbit material on the bearings. Depending on where you measure the oil temp, there are parts of the engine that could be pretty close to that temp.

No - that one only has 3/8" ports, you need 1/2" here. Get the Canton piece, and get the Canton block adapter replacement too. The OEM block adapter is pot metal, it will crack if you hang anything on it.

Nothing fits great here, esp if headers are close. My SOP is to remote the filter.

Ok well since I'm changing to an ls1 later this year, I'll just skip the cooler and keep an eye on the temps.

Well my oil pan pre heater works well. The oil temps skyrocketed. It would jump to upper 200's and eventually get to about 315. It seemed to stabalize there. I was running a good brand new oil and only for a few sessions so I didn't worry about it. But I have to do something before my next event. I don't even want to know what the temp of the oil in the pan was.

I think I'll drop the Y pipe and go to town with a BFH to give me some room, although I know it's not the right thing to do.

I really want an LS1 soon, so spending any money on this current engine is a waste. I briefly considered long tubes and a full exhaust, but it's not worth it.

Maybe it would be better to just have a shop cut the crossover pipe and bend a new pipe in the same location, just bent down and away from the pan. Shouldn't be very hard to do.

I'd try this first

Jegs

Yep I think you're right. I didn't even think of that.

Thanks

Don't beat on the pan - there is 'stuff' in there. The OEM Ypipe is pretty sturdy stuff, I don't think you'll get much clearance without mangling it.

IIRC I've sliced and added about 1/2" to the Ypipe near the drivers side manifold junction - that pushes the crossover down and away from the pan.

the Ti thing is cool but a piece of thin stainless sheet and a couple hose clamps will work for a whole lot less $$. Set it up with an air gap between the sheet and the Ypipe

Sorry, I meant beat on the Y pipe, not the pan.

Im thinking about lowering y pipe enough to install header wrap then bolting it back up. I'll be able to see how effective it is by driving it on the street. If that doesn't work, I'll have a shop fix it properly.

So tonight I loosed the Y pipe and wrapped the y pipe with headed wrap I picked up from autozone.





I took it for a spin, excited to see how much it lowered my oil temps. The result? Zero. Nada. Zilch. Not a single degrees difference. Oil temps went right to 220 while just gently crusing around. Then I got on it a couple of times and they went straight to 230+.

I don't get it. I thought for sure it would have done something.

What else can cause high oil temps?

What were the water temps? Where is your oil temp probe (pan, after cooler, etc)?

Water temp measured at the head was 190. Oil temp is taken from the unused port just north of the filter. No cooler.

Oil pooling in the heads and engine's lifter valley would cause higher oil temps as a smaller amount of circulating oil is handling all the heat from the engine. I'd check both heads and make sure the oil drain back holes are working properly, e.g., no debris blocking any of the holes. If you're using the engine valley oil baffles standoff tubes, I'd take them off as they tend to pool oil in the lifter valley and the amount of oil windage they reduce isn't worth it on a non-race engine.

If oil drain back isn't a problem, and you're not using the oil for any type of piston cooling, I'd next look at a partially stuck oil bypass valve in the oil pump. (You should have noticed a decrease in operating oil pressure if this did in fact happen though.)

Finally, I'd use a bore scope to check the Moroso oil pan's baffling to make sure that you are pooling oil behind a swing gate or baffle.

Hope this helps.

How do I check the drain holes in the heads? Pull the valve covers? And what about the oil baffle standoff tubes? I don't know what those are.

Oil pressure is very good. 40 -60 hot.

I know I have over filled the oil by probably 1 quart. Maybe I'll drain some and see if that helps.

Maybe I should just install an oil cooler.

Thanks for your help. I've got another track day next week.

My oil press is 60 psi at 2000 rpm when hot. Almost 80 when cold. Is that a little high?

Just pull off the valve covers. The oil drain back slots are at both ends of the heads. If oil is pooling there, you would see it. The standoff tubes are aftermarket. They're usually aluminum, stand about 2" high with a breather hole in the end, and screw into the oil drain back holes in the lifter valley next to the cam.

It almost sounds like an aftermarket pump. I haven't had a stock LT1 in years, but that sounds a little high to me for a stock pump. Hey current LT-1 owners, what do you guys normally see?

If it's an aftermarket oil pump, most people add the Melling high volume pump (+25% volume) with the pink by-pass spring that would give those pressure values. (If the engine doesn't need high volume oil, it could be the oil is getting added heat from being by-passed from the pump directly into the pan and then going through the same process again and again.)

Normally, adding a full quart of oil just increases your crank windage. If you have an aftermarket high volume pump, you'll need the extra quart of oil to keep from running low on oil around the pickup and possibly sucking air. More oil slows down the heating-releasing ability of the oil in the sump as the cooler oil then to cling to the surface of the pan acting as a buffer between the pan's radiating surfaces and the hotter oil.

It would help lower your oil temps. I prefer the thermostat controlled units myself especially for street driven vehicles. All the extra oil flowing through the cooler makes reaching operating oil temperatures that much longer. (I prefer 185F.)

Sorry that I can't provide anything more than suggestions at this point. Hope that you're able to find out what causing the additional heating of the oil before your next track day.

That's a huge help. Thank you for taking the time.

I bought the engine off Craigslist complete for $380. It had, supposedly, under 120k miles and had been sitting for years. When I pulled the valve covers, it was very clean. The compression was all over the place. I figured it was just dry and needed to run. Because of the unknowns, I did put the adtermarket oil pump in. To my surprise when I started it, it had no smoke and really strong oil pressure. As I've been running the engine, it's been running better and better. It's very smooth, doesn't smoke at all, and doesn't burn any oil. I probably should have just used a stock oil pump, but I had no idea this engine was so healthy.

I'm just going to order an oil cooler adapter and install it on Wednesday. Track day is Thursday. Plenty of time .

http://m.summitracing.com/parts/ctr-22-726

I'm thinking about this kit. Is that the correct sandwich adapter?

Actually I think this is the thread pitch I need.




For 13/16-16 inch thread and 2-5/8 inch gasket size spin-on oil filter.

The adapter and thread sizes you mentioned are for a 1st gen SBC. My '93 LT1 used a metric AC Delco PF52 oil filter that had a thread size of M18 x 1.5 and used a different gasket size (slightly larger?).

I think that you can install the old 1st gen SBC spin-on oil filter adapter in the LT1 block to accept the the sandwich adapter you selected from Summit Racing. Unfortunately, unless you find one used, the new ones cost $$.

If this seems like too much bother, I'm sure someone sells the correct hardware for an LT1 sandwich adapter.

You should be good to go with the aftermarket oil pump. The oil pressures you mention fit the type of by-pass spring used by Melling (pink). If it were a high volume pump, you would have required a special pick-up for the pump due to the larger gears in the pump.

Summit has the Canton M18x1.5 in stock. I'll order it as well and see which one fits and return the one that doesn't.

Thank you for the help.

Obviously not thinking when I answered your post about the thread size, but the oil filter that you're currently using should determine which size fittings you need. The metric M18 x 1.5 PF52 type filter and UNS 13/16-16 PF454 type filter are not interchangeable so which ever one you're using would indicate what size threads your spin on oil filter adapter has. Hope this helps! Sorry if my response caused you to order extra parts!

No it's ok, I'll just return what I don't need. I know I'm using the oil filter for a 97 LT1 Camaro according to the book at autozone. But I've got no idea what the threads are. Guess we'll find out on Tuesday.

http://www.wixfilters.com

The wix filter look up should give you the correct threads and other filter dimensions.