Steve91T
Apr 15 2016, 04:25 AM
http://youtu.be/3fN0aUKiJusI threw some clips of my hop issue. Watch the shifter. I'm applying brakes smoothly and the axle still starters to shimmy. If I brake any harder, it sets it off.
XP20 front pads w/c5 brakes
Autozone rear pads on stock lt1 brakes
Stock torque arm
Relocation brackets (welded) and adjusted to lower control arms are level
Abs removed
Is it possible that when I removed ABS it somehow gave me too much rear brake bias? I'm thinking it has to be.
79T/A
Apr 15 2016, 05:00 AM
When you removed abs, did you add a proportioning valve?
KeithO
Apr 15 2016, 08:43 AM
When the ABS was removed from my old CMC car, a proportioning valve was put in it's place. Even with the proportioning valve, I had to go to less aggressive rear pads to reduce hop.
LT1:
Steve91T
Apr 15 2016, 01:54 PM
Thanks for the help guys. I just have a distribution block in place of the abs plump. I'll take a picture later.
Steve91T
Apr 15 2016, 03:16 PM
Here it is.
dailydriver
Apr 15 2016, 11:23 PM
QUOTE (KeithO @ Apr 15 2016, 04:43 AM)
When the ABS was removed from my old CMC car, a proportioning valve was put in it's place. Even with the proportioning valve, I had to go to less aggressive rear pads to reduce hop.
LT1:
yes, but; You ran in CMC with your factory A.I.R. system enabled and functioning?
KeithO
Apr 16 2016, 09:44 AM
Yes. For the first 2 years the car was legitimately street legal.
79T/A
Apr 16 2016, 03:00 PM
You definitely need a proportioning valve in the rear line. $40 part should fix your issue.
Steve91T
Apr 16 2016, 09:06 PM
I remember reading a lot about this and it seemed that most people didn't need one, they were able to get the balance right with different pads. Guess that's not the case for me.
I'll order one tonight. Thanks guys for the help!
79T/A
Apr 17 2016, 01:13 AM
I can't believe anyone would recommend removing ABS without installing a prop valve. It might be different for the LT1 cars, but I know the LS1 cars bias through the ABS module so you would absolutely need a prop valve or else it would be sending a ton of fluid to the rear.
Steve91T
Apr 17 2016, 01:36 AM
QUOTE (79T/A @ Apr 16 2016, 09:13 PM)
I can't believe anyone would recommend removing ABS without installing a prop valve. It might be different for the LT1 cars, but I know the LS1 cars bias through the ABS module so you would absolutely need a prop valve or else it would be sending a ton of fluid to the rear.
Yeah it must be the lt1 guys who can get away with it, or at least some of them. Not working for me. If I'm going to have a prop valve, is it worth taking the time to run it into the cabin so I can adjust it on the fly? I'm thinking it would be. I can probably run the lines into the ash tray area where my helmet blower switch is. I just worry about having a high point in the brake line. Not sure if it'll cause problems with bleeding the brakes.
KeithO
Apr 17 2016, 10:39 AM
A few more comments:
Yes, having the proportioning valve within reach while driving will help you dial in the balance. Just be careful that you don't fall into that trap where you are always fiddling it because it is there. I've seen a lot of guys adjust shocks between runs/sessions because they had adjustable shocks and I think they started to chase their own changes to the car after a while. Also, I have seen many installed low, on the driver's side of the tranny tunnel where if you drop your right hand from the driver's seat it is right there. The advantage in this arrangement is you can minimize the length of brake line inside the car. With the pressures involved, if a line fails inside the car it would be very bad.
LT1 versus LS1 - My LT1 car had an LS1 front brake setup and I believe it still should have a proportioning valve. Pads with lower coefficient of friction on the rear can do fine adjustments to the rear brake strength but the primary adjustment has to be the pressure.
Even with my setup and weaker rear pads, I still got brake hop occasionally. I found that I would get it when conditions were optimal and when I was close to getting all of the car.
I think you will be glad you did this mod.
Steve91T
Apr 17 2016, 02:11 PM
QUOTE (KeithO @ Apr 17 2016, 06:39 AM)
A few more comments:
Yes, having the proportioning valve within reach while driving will help you dial in the balance. Just be careful that you don't fall into that trap where you are always fiddling it because it is there. I've seen a lot of guys adjust shocks between runs/sessions because they had adjustable shocks and I think they started to chase their own changes to the car after a while. Also, I have seen many installed low, on the driver's side of the tranny tunnel where if you drop your right hand from the driver's seat it is right there. The advantage in this arrangement is you can minimize the length of brake line inside the car. With the pressures involved, if a line fails inside the car it would be very bad.
LT1 versus LS1 - My LT1 car had an LS1 front brake setup and I believe it still should have a proportioning valve. Pads with lower coefficient of friction on the rear can do fine adjustments to the rear brake strength but the primary adjustment has to be the pressure.
Even with my setup and weaker rear pads, I still got brake hop occasionally. I found that I would get it when conditions were optimal and when I was close to getting all of the car.
I think you will be glad you did this mod.
Thanks so much. I ordered a valve last night. I'll probably try to mount it inside. I tend to not make many adjustments to the car at the track. I'll tweak tire pressures after my first session, but that's about it.
To run the brake line inside, do you just drill holes through the tunnel or is there a better way?
JimMueller
Apr 17 2016, 02:22 PM
I think I read somewhere else that the lever version is preferred to the dial version, especially if you mount it in the cabin. I used the dial version under hood because it's in a daily driver. If there was a way to make it look reasonable inside the cabin maybe I'd re-think that.
79T/A
Apr 17 2016, 03:28 PM
QUOTE (Steve91T @ Apr 17 2016, 02:11 PM)
QUOTE (KeithO @ Apr 17 2016, 06:39 AM)
A few more comments:
Yes, having the proportioning valve within reach while driving will help you dial in the balance. Just be careful that you don't fall into that trap where you are always fiddling it because it is there. I've seen a lot of guys adjust shocks between runs/sessions because they had adjustable shocks and I think they started to chase their own changes to the car after a while. Also, I have seen many installed low, on the driver's side of the tranny tunnel where if you drop your right hand from the driver's seat it is right there. The advantage in this arrangement is you can minimize the length of brake line inside the car. With the pressures involved, if a line fails inside the car it would be very bad.
LT1 versus LS1 - My LT1 car had an LS1 front brake setup and I believe it still should have a proportioning valve. Pads with lower coefficient of friction on the rear can do fine adjustments to the rear brake strength but the primary adjustment has to be the pressure.
Even with my setup and weaker rear pads, I still got brake hop occasionally. I found that I would get it when conditions were optimal and when I was close to getting all of the car.
I think you will be glad you did this mod.
Thanks so much. I ordered a valve last night. I'll probably try to mount it inside. I tend to not make many adjustments to the car at the track. I'll tweak tire pressures after my first session, but that's about it.
To run the brake line inside, do you just drill holes through the tunnel or is there a better way?
Drill holes in the firewall/ floor pan. Use bulkhead fittings. Don't just cut a hole and run the line through.
Blainefab
Apr 19 2016, 02:30 AM
QUOTE (Steve91T @ Apr 17 2016, 07:11 AM)
To run the brake line inside, do you just drill holes through the tunnel or is there a better way?
Yes, drill holes thru the tunnel. Do not use bulkhead fittings, they provide zero value, introduce several points of failure. I prefer the dial version valve
Blainefab
Apr 19 2016, 02:36 AM
Your shifter is pretty lively - thats a symptom of something with too much compliance in the drivetrain mounts. get the rubber out and it will settle down and reduce the tramp.
Moroso makes solid motor mounts for the LT1
ES poly trans mount - they are cheap, replace every season or so.
tighten the upper shock nuts till the rubber is really squished - or replace with rodend shocks
tq the lower shock nuts to 90#ft
tq the TA, BH and T56 mount bolts to spec
Steve91T
Apr 19 2016, 05:09 PM
QUOTE (Blainefab @ Apr 18 2016, 10:30 PM)
QUOTE (Steve91T @ Apr 17 2016, 07:11 AM)
To run the brake line inside, do you just drill holes through the tunnel or is there a better way?
Yes, drill holes thru the tunnel. Do not use bulkhead fittings, they provide zero value, introduce several points of failure. I prefer the dial version valve
Ok. I'll see if I can find a rubber grommet that'll keep the brake line safe.
Steve91T
Apr 19 2016, 05:11 PM
QUOTE (Blainefab @ Apr 18 2016, 10:36 PM)
Your shifter is pretty lively - thats a symptom of something with too much compliance in the drivetrain mounts. get the rubber out and it will settle down and reduce the tramp.
Moroso makes solid motor mounts for the LT1
ES poly trans mount - they are cheap, replace every season or so.
tighten the upper shock nuts till the rubber is really squished - or replace with rodend shocks
tq the lower shock nuts to 90#ft
tq the TA, BH and T56 mount bolts to spec
I remember you saying that years ago....can't remember why I didn't listen. I do have the original 100,000 mile rubber mounts. I'm going to be changing to an LS1 later this year, I'll get solid mounts at that time.
STANG KILLA SS
Apr 22 2016, 07:00 PM
whats the flashing far right gauge?
Steve91T
Apr 22 2016, 07:14 PM
QUOTE (STANG KILLA SS @ Apr 22 2016, 03:00 PM)
whats the flashing far right gauge?
Oil temp. It was about 315 most of the day. Working on an oil cooler as we speak.
Steve91T
May 11 2016, 12:06 AM
Got another track day on Friday. Because time is limited right now, I'm going to just mount the prop valve in the engine bay. Down the road when I have more time, I'll move it to the ash tray. Anyway, for those who have a proportioning valve, what's a good starting point? Halfway closed?
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