last weekend at buttonwillow raceway,two(thats three this year) racers were killed while driving a convertable car(austin healy) with no rollcage! I thought you had to have a rollcage even if it was a OT day,am i right?
im not to sure on the fact's,but i think it was a jaguar.the men were 46 and 70 yrs of age,and they went off after the lost hill turn down in the sweeper(a nice med speed right hander).
I just thought some poeple should know! I work some kind of emergency skill everytime i go to the track.
anyway im thinking more than im writing and it looks like............
Can we get a section on safety?
Full Version: passing of two racers!
I read the thread about this on corner-carvers. It sounded like it happened during the lunchtime parade laps. I don't know exactly how that track handles that sort of thing, but here at PIR, the lunchtime laps are done at a slow speed behind the pace car, because of this, they don't have to have roll bars, etc. Something obviously went wrong, and it is always a shame to lose people, no matter what the circumstances.
QUOTE
bakersfield.com Archive Article
Two men die in crash on Buttonwillow track
Author(s): MARK BARNA,
Date: September 27, 2004
Two men were killed Sunday at Buttonwillow Raceway when their convertible sports car overturned while motoring on the track during a non-racing event. The driver, Ronald Burnett, 46, of Cypress, died while being transported by helicopter to Kern Medical Center, said Kelly Cowan, deputy coroner of the Kern County Sheriff's Department. The passenger, Ronald Yates, 70, of Mohave Valley, Ariz., was pronounced dead at the scene.
Both men were wearing a seat belt and helmet, Cowan said.
The accident occurred during a mid-day drive-around in which visitors pay a fee to motor their cars on the Buttonwillow Raceway track. Burnett was driving an Austin Healy, a convertible that racers at the track said was a street vehicle with no roll bar or other safety accouterments found on race cars.
Buttonwillow Raceway officials were not available late Sunday afternoon for comment on the wreck.
Bakersfield residents Martin and Twila Willey, there to race their Formula V car, were having lunch in the racers parking area when the accident occurred. They were about a quarter-mile from the accident site, which is near a remote stretch of track called Lost Hill, known to racers as Magic Mountain.
"I just heard an ambulance and everyone started running," Twila WIlley said.
After the rise and fall of Lost Hill, the track straightens out, then is followed by a sharp C-turn called the Sweeper. It is this general area where the accident occurred, Twila Willey said. Martin Willey said he typically motors around the Sweeper at 70 mph in his Formula V.
Willey said he feels safe on the track because his race car has roll bars, and he wears a seat belt and a helmet. But he acknowledges that things can go wrong quickly.
"It's a dangerous sport," he said.
Two men die in crash on Buttonwillow track
Author(s): MARK BARNA,
Date: September 27, 2004
Two men were killed Sunday at Buttonwillow Raceway when their convertible sports car overturned while motoring on the track during a non-racing event. The driver, Ronald Burnett, 46, of Cypress, died while being transported by helicopter to Kern Medical Center, said Kelly Cowan, deputy coroner of the Kern County Sheriff's Department. The passenger, Ronald Yates, 70, of Mohave Valley, Ariz., was pronounced dead at the scene.
Both men were wearing a seat belt and helmet, Cowan said.
The accident occurred during a mid-day drive-around in which visitors pay a fee to motor their cars on the Buttonwillow Raceway track. Burnett was driving an Austin Healy, a convertible that racers at the track said was a street vehicle with no roll bar or other safety accouterments found on race cars.
Buttonwillow Raceway officials were not available late Sunday afternoon for comment on the wreck.
Bakersfield residents Martin and Twila Willey, there to race their Formula V car, were having lunch in the racers parking area when the accident occurred. They were about a quarter-mile from the accident site, which is near a remote stretch of track called Lost Hill, known to racers as Magic Mountain.
"I just heard an ambulance and everyone started running," Twila WIlley said.
After the rise and fall of Lost Hill, the track straightens out, then is followed by a sharp C-turn called the Sweeper. It is this general area where the accident occurred, Twila Willey said. Martin Willey said he typically motors around the Sweeper at 70 mph in his Formula V.
Willey said he feels safe on the track because his race car has roll bars, and he wears a seat belt and a helmet. But he acknowledges that things can go wrong quickly.
"It's a dangerous sport," he said.
This is really sad to read because it was so unnecessary and affected so many people.
As far as having a roof vs a convertable, it isn't necessarily a ticket to an injury free day. In a rollover, I have doubts as to the effectiveness of a T top F body. Forget the zillion pieces of glass, how effective the T top will be is rather questionable.
Even a full roof car of whatever brand isn't a total answer for an injury free open track day or even some demo laps. The roof can still fail. Only a true cage can prevent the catestrophic damage of a rollover.
Look at this roof. Picture courtesy of Dave Parker, OG Racing, Summit Point:
http://home.columbus.rr.com/trackbirdz28/cage_info.htm
Regards
Steve
Even a full roof car of whatever brand isn't a total answer for an injury free open track day or even some demo laps. The roof can still fail. Only a true cage can prevent the catestrophic damage of a rollover.
Look at this roof. Picture courtesy of Dave Parker, OG Racing, Summit Point:
http://home.columbus.rr.com/trackbirdz28/cage_info.htm
Regards
Steve
QUOTE
As far as having a roof vs a convertable, it isn't necessarily a ticket to an injury free day. In a rollover, I have doubts as to the effectiveness of a T top F body. Forget the zillion pieces of glass, how effective the T top will be is rather questionable.
Even full roof of whatever brand isn't a total answer for an injury free open track day or even some demo laps. The roof can still fail. Only a true cage can prevent the catestrophic damage of a rollover.
Even full roof of whatever brand isn't a total answer for an injury free open track day or even some demo laps. The roof can still fail. Only a true cage can prevent the catestrophic damage of a rollover.
Also realize that some full roof cars are very disceptive vs a T-top car as far as safety. On 4th gen Camaro's the ONLY differences in the roof of a full roof car is the two small supports for the top of the window seal, the roof skin, and of course the headliner. The supports are easily knocked out with a BFH for T-top conversions because they are only tack welded in place. The roof skin again is only tack welded in place and a headliner won't help you in a roll over of course. After I saw this I had to laugh because some people think the T-top cars are unsafe in roll overs when in reality for 4th gen Camaro's the "roll structure" is the same for T-top and non T-top cars.
Steve,
I forgot I had that on my site.
I forgot I had that on my site.
Posted on a message board 10/1:
QUOTE
Deleted due to the original authors request.
Trackbird
Trackbird
Unfortunately, the incident mentioned in Julie's last post was a differant accident, at T-hill. Bad week for all. Just wanted to clarify.
That is just horrendous. My thoughts go out to both families. While I didn't know Robert, I know many RX7 drivers and can only hope and pray.
The way in which that accident occured at that track I would not have thought possible....I would think you could scrub off speed/spin in the space between those two turns...guess I was wrong. The emergency response is trajic, but on a test day, there is no way to get full safety crews in place really. As for the HANS device...I have not purchased one....and I rarely use my donut neck collar...I will rethink this...
The families are in my thoughts....
The way in which that accident occured at that track I would not have thought possible....I would think you could scrub off speed/spin in the space between those two turns...guess I was wrong. The emergency response is trajic, but on a test day, there is no way to get full safety crews in place really. As for the HANS device...I have not purchased one....and I rarely use my donut neck collar...I will rethink this...
The families are in my thoughts....
Randy, I hope your friends are ok. As racers we all feel the loss here. And please wear your donuts (neck collars)! This is cheap protection and there is no excuse for not wearing one for HPDEs or racing. They are uncomfortable while you are not driving, however, when you start driving you forget it is there and the support for the g forces is great. I'm going to be purchasing the HANS very soon, also, NASA has a discount program for a belt system for this type of protection. Please do not procrastinate on getting yourself protected.
As for other safety items it is important that you have someone qualified go over your car at least annually. Second and third opinions are good too, you can never be too safe!
As for other safety items it is important that you have someone qualified go over your car at least annually. Second and third opinions are good too, you can never be too safe!
QUOTE (CMC #37 @ Oct 3 2004, 01:09 PM)
I'm going to be purchasing the HANS very soon, also, NASA has a discount program for a belt system for this type of protection. Please do not procrastinate on getting yourself protected.
Which one is the discount for, and how do you get it? I was thinking about getting the Hutchens device to use at track days.
Gary, if you are already a NASA member just go to the site and there is a section on member benefits listing this device, I think it actually may be the Hutchens. If you don't already belong to NASA then join!
That is tragic.
The differeing safety devices (HANS vs Hutchens vs etc) and their relative effectiveness could be a great topic in a Safety section. I second the suggestion to start one. FWIW, my impression based on reviews is that the Hutchens provides marginal help.
Steve
Steve
For the story on the Thunderhill incident:
http://www.chicoer.com/Stories/0,1413,135%...l?search=filter
This link has info on both incidents in this thread and a picture of the Thunderhill area where the incidents happened.
http://p081.ezboard.com/fdsrforumgeneraldi...icID=1090.topic
http://www.chicoer.com/Stories/0,1413,135%...l?search=filter
This link has info on both incidents in this thread and a picture of the Thunderhill area where the incidents happened.
http://p081.ezboard.com/fdsrforumgeneraldi...icID=1090.topic
Really sad, sad events, and so close together. I can only wish the families will be able to handle it.
I can say that we (NCRC & ARC) have had similar troubles with lunchtime drive-arounds. We had to red-flag one due to excessive speeds, and will probably run them all with pace/chase cars from now on. It's great to let folks get out on the track and show their spouse what it's like, etc, but people do have trouble slowing down.
An article I wrote earlier this year, might help some of the folks who're just starting the search for such devices:
Head and Neck Restraint Devices
There has been some discussion lately of using head and neck restraint devices in driver’s education (DE) events such as those held by NCRC. Below is a summary of the main types and brands of devices on the market. This is a summary of the devices, and not comprehensive scientific research. Hopefully it will give you an idea of what these devices do for you, and where to continue your research.
The main purpose of these devices is to restrain the violent movement of the head in a sudden collision, either from the side or the front, which can cause basilar skull fracture. These injuries are purported to be responsible for half of all road racing deaths. All of these assume you already have a full 5 or 6 point harness and a helmet.
• The Hans Device (www.hansdevice.com) has been around for quite a while, and is the most popular among pro racing (F1, IRL, CART require it). This unit sits on the driver’s shoulders, and is held in place by the existing shoulder harnesses. It then has straps to the helmet to restrict head movement. It tends to fare well in lab tests, but takes a bit of heat for being cumbersome on first use. $975-2000 depending on specs.
• Isaac (www.IsaacDirect.com) takes a slightly different approach to all the other devices, in that it uses small shock absorbers that connect from the shoulder harness to the helmet. So the head motion is not restricted suddenly as with the straps on all other devices, but damped more gradually (if the word “gradual” is even relevant here). Gregg Baker of Isaac is very active on message boards, and Isaac seems to have the most relevant comparison content on their web site. See http://www.isaacdirect.com/html/chart.html, for example. $895 will get you the Isaac System
• G-Force SRS-1 (www.gforce.com) is a simple head restraint system, which is similar to HANS. This device attaches a strap to the rear of the helmet, which is held in place by a bar that sits behind the shoulders, under the harness. G-Force makes helmets, and only certifies their device with their own helmets. $280 (w/o helmet)
There are also several restraint systems that are made of straps that wrap around the body and attach to the helmet. There have been complaints about these systems, as they rely on the straps being accurately adjusted for size and positioning on the driver. If not, they may cause spinal compression or other damage in an accident. These systems include:
• Hutchens Device (www.hutchensdevice.com) claims to be the most popular head restraint system, and is worn by many NASCAR drivers. $325.
• D-CEL, also manufactured by Hutchens (www.hutchensdevice.com), claims to be the only device that truly protects against side impacts as well as frontal (most impacts are from the front). $425
• Simpson (http://www.simpsonraceproducts.com) sells a restraint system that looks to be virtually identical to D-CEL, and may actually be a re-badged product. $450
• Wright Device (www.over40racing.com) is another webbed device that attaches the helmet to a harness on the body. Interestingly, it is available either as a complete product, or as a set of instructions for the do-it-yourselfer to build at home. $150 for the product, DIY instructions are free
There is some concern about the mounting points on helmets, which require drilling and fitting hooks for attachment of the restraint devices. The helmet manufacturers are in a bit of a predicament over this. G-Force is selling helmets pre-fitted for these connections, and it’s likely other brands will or are following suit.
For additional information on how various systems perform during testing, check the SAE web site at www.sae.org. For a small charge, you can download two relevant technical papers (2002-01-3304 and 2002-01-3306), which describe these tests.
For additional web surfing info, check the message boards at http://www.specracer.com/ and http://forums.improvedtouring.com/
Dave
I can say that we (NCRC & ARC) have had similar troubles with lunchtime drive-arounds. We had to red-flag one due to excessive speeds, and will probably run them all with pace/chase cars from now on. It's great to let folks get out on the track and show their spouse what it's like, etc, but people do have trouble slowing down.
An article I wrote earlier this year, might help some of the folks who're just starting the search for such devices:
Head and Neck Restraint Devices
There has been some discussion lately of using head and neck restraint devices in driver’s education (DE) events such as those held by NCRC. Below is a summary of the main types and brands of devices on the market. This is a summary of the devices, and not comprehensive scientific research. Hopefully it will give you an idea of what these devices do for you, and where to continue your research.
The main purpose of these devices is to restrain the violent movement of the head in a sudden collision, either from the side or the front, which can cause basilar skull fracture. These injuries are purported to be responsible for half of all road racing deaths. All of these assume you already have a full 5 or 6 point harness and a helmet.
• The Hans Device (www.hansdevice.com) has been around for quite a while, and is the most popular among pro racing (F1, IRL, CART require it). This unit sits on the driver’s shoulders, and is held in place by the existing shoulder harnesses. It then has straps to the helmet to restrict head movement. It tends to fare well in lab tests, but takes a bit of heat for being cumbersome on first use. $975-2000 depending on specs.
• Isaac (www.IsaacDirect.com) takes a slightly different approach to all the other devices, in that it uses small shock absorbers that connect from the shoulder harness to the helmet. So the head motion is not restricted suddenly as with the straps on all other devices, but damped more gradually (if the word “gradual” is even relevant here). Gregg Baker of Isaac is very active on message boards, and Isaac seems to have the most relevant comparison content on their web site. See http://www.isaacdirect.com/html/chart.html, for example. $895 will get you the Isaac System
• G-Force SRS-1 (www.gforce.com) is a simple head restraint system, which is similar to HANS. This device attaches a strap to the rear of the helmet, which is held in place by a bar that sits behind the shoulders, under the harness. G-Force makes helmets, and only certifies their device with their own helmets. $280 (w/o helmet)
There are also several restraint systems that are made of straps that wrap around the body and attach to the helmet. There have been complaints about these systems, as they rely on the straps being accurately adjusted for size and positioning on the driver. If not, they may cause spinal compression or other damage in an accident. These systems include:
• Hutchens Device (www.hutchensdevice.com) claims to be the most popular head restraint system, and is worn by many NASCAR drivers. $325.
• D-CEL, also manufactured by Hutchens (www.hutchensdevice.com), claims to be the only device that truly protects against side impacts as well as frontal (most impacts are from the front). $425
• Simpson (http://www.simpsonraceproducts.com) sells a restraint system that looks to be virtually identical to D-CEL, and may actually be a re-badged product. $450
• Wright Device (www.over40racing.com) is another webbed device that attaches the helmet to a harness on the body. Interestingly, it is available either as a complete product, or as a set of instructions for the do-it-yourselfer to build at home. $150 for the product, DIY instructions are free
There is some concern about the mounting points on helmets, which require drilling and fitting hooks for attachment of the restraint devices. The helmet manufacturers are in a bit of a predicament over this. G-Force is selling helmets pre-fitted for these connections, and it’s likely other brands will or are following suit.
For additional information on how various systems perform during testing, check the SAE web site at www.sae.org. For a small charge, you can download two relevant technical papers (2002-01-3304 and 2002-01-3306), which describe these tests.
For additional web surfing info, check the message boards at http://www.specracer.com/ and http://forums.improvedtouring.com/
Dave
scary stuff...
It's always sad to see people pass away in accidents.
I do it with a convertible, and it's something that has been bugging me for awhile.
Last winter, I just bought the bullit, and got a rollbar... was a deal in December (guess it's low sale period of the year).
imho, it's the cheapest insurance that I can get and can make the difference between "living to talk about it" and not... but still hoping I never get to test it.
It's always sad to see people pass away in accidents.
I do it with a convertible, and it's something that has been bugging me for awhile.
Last winter, I just bought the bullit, and got a rollbar... was a deal in December (guess it's low sale period of the year).
imho, it's the cheapest insurance that I can get and can make the difference between "living to talk about it" and not... but still hoping I never get to test it.
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