hmmm, maybe it was a bad idea to build racer out of a higher mileage, abused f-body. I'm moving towards the point where its time to put it all back together . So what do I do? I diassemble the opti to verify its in good, usable condition
here's what I see
http://www.vilipend.com/~frrax/clutch-and-opti
it was actually even worse than you see there. I cleaned it up some. Well, I was kinda frustrated when I got to that point so I ended up bending the optical disc. Looks like I'll need a new one regardless. Thats an extra $400. Opti and WP, who wouldn't replace the opt w/o a new water pump?

This thing coated w/ oil and grime, go back in the album and look at the engine, including the opti.

Man, there are so many other things in this build up that are nickel and diming me to death. Lets just say I have a bad propensity to replace anything I touch that looks in the least bit questionable.

should have just bought a low mileage ride and thrown a suspension and cage on it! it would have been cheaper in the long run.

I can relate to you.....

I just got done with my rebuild and the "might as wells" just kiil you. I know that I am going to try my best not to allow myself to do this again (build a SM F-body).......I'll stay with the stock classes and a newer car
- did it for 3 years and it definitely helps the pocket book.

Well, the cheapest way is to buy a ready to race car, especially if it's just a few years old and is already racing in your intended class. I did a similar thing to you, but I assumed since I had a '94 Firebird that was already paid for and had a pretty good autoxing ESP suspension under it, I could go road racing a lot cheaper using it as a base. I was wrong. Don't get me wrong. It's been fun, and it taught me a lot, but there is still so much work left to do . . .

yeah, I absolutely knew it would be cheaper to buy an already built car. But I just had to do it myself! Actually a lot of the things I'm replacing I'd probably do if/when I had to do similar repairs on an already built car. You never know how much wear/life is on some of those parts. Thats why I replace things when I get to 'em. Even simple things like all the vacuum hoses, coolant hoses, ball joints, filters, etc.
Some things on the LT1 cars just stick it too you too, at least compared to a third gen; opti spark, water pump, clutch, and timing chain/gears......
oh well, ordering the parts & replacing them is fun. Its the credit card bill that isn't. I actually love doing this project, I've always wanted to do it and I finally am.
I've already been thinking about building my next car and this one isn't even close to being finished

Oh you are not alone Lots here I'm sure can relate. I for one am glad I decided to build my own.
For one the cars that I saw made to order(4th gen CMC about 12.5k from RP) where just the basics on the cars saftey and such.
I'm getting a whole lot more for an overall cost around 16k. I'm thinking of picking up a beater C4 and redoing it next. If I ever get this one done

Tony

This more or less reinforces my decision on my own car. I was originally going to rebuild my engine. I then checked and found that a new GM crate LT1 can be had for less than $5,000. Based on this and the potential "nickel and dime" on the rebuild, I decided to run it till it quits then get a new motor.

THAT is a smart move!



I have built a lot of race cars and EVERY ONE OF THEM nickel'd and dime'd me to death......I don't think it is your high mileage car that is the problem...it is just the nature of the beast in racing....

But I would recommend Keith's approach....lower the standards for the first year....you ain't gonna be beating many people anyway...might as well have an excuse (read old tired motor)...put the motor back together and RUN IT! If it blows....it blows.....

Guess you guys will be interested when the #37 CMC '84 Trans-Am will be for sale from this conversation! Been there, done that. I think many of us come from a hot rodding background and you NEVER want someone else's hot rod. I assumed this was the case with race cars, however, after spending years sorting the '84 instead of focusing on my driving I am finally able to say it is fully sorted this year and I shoulda bought a sorted one! Surprise surprise my lap times dropped seriously at Thunderhill this last weekend (2:06.5) and I am really looking forward to next season!

As soon as the 4th gen is built and sorted, hopefully by mid season, the present #37 will be for sale and will make someone's life real easy here! Using a build plan with versions tested out by Alan Blaine and Nick Steel, I am sure it will not take long to get the 4th gen track ready.

Man how I wish I had the $$$ to buy a cmc car and maintain one.

You're a little far away, but keep me in mind, I might be interested if the price is right.

I'll probably have two prices, one with the Dana 44, one without. I'll keep ya posted!

I understand about the budget thing, when I first started out I could not afford to do all the races.

Keith Randy explain to me why this is best to buy a GM crate. I just need to see,maybe I'm not understanding.

I am rebuilding . Why? I have been off track FOREVER (since I decided the street car was not safe build a real one) I have put alot of sweat into this and waited a long time.There is no way in heck I am gonna get done, and find my 80k motor says "the heck with you" and I loose more track time Also I like everything as new as possible too.And everything able to handle some abuse CUZ thats what I intend to do to it.I need good odds from the start its just my nature.
And Mike was pretty bummed when his demon came out. don't want to do that.

But thats basically beside the point. I have a quote for $3,200 on the rebuild. Yes I have to add price of Canton pan. And I am gonna do the opti too. Something else will pop up no doubt.

That quote is for rod upgrade H beam,forged pistons,high vol. pump,upgraged timing chain,ported heads,intake match,springs tit. retainers,full roller,custom cam,decked,line honed,balanced blueprinted and of coarse all the best bearings and gaskets.All they want me to do is pull motor,remove the accessories and bring it in.They will give it back fully assembled. And these guys build badass motors for bad ass cars. I have told them about the abuse it will receive,they know what a race car motor needs. The higher RPMS and engine braking(down shifting) it will endure.

Is a GM crate motor better? Why? Because in the begining that was what I was thinking of doing. I feel pretty confident that I am doing the right thing.

Also I do see how run the old motor to get out there on track.If you don't have any means for anything else. Sure worth a chance.



Tony

The following statements are based on my experiences and cannot be backed-up with any scientific data or statistics:

I want a GM crate motor built to GM specs (balancing and tolerances) because I *know* that a well-maintained factory motor can run strong well past 100,000 with good maintenance and nothing more.

In contrast, I have seen quite a few people take quite a few approaches to rebuilding motors - do it themselves, do part of it themselves, do it with their buddies, farm out part of the work and farm out all of the work. These motors seem to have a much higher failure rate than motors built by the factory. I don't know why, but I have a few theories... Primarily related to the ability to repeatably build and assemble to tolerance and the host of equipment availble to check tolerance and balance of various pieces...

In addition, I would rather spend $5000 ($4,800 actually) and know that is what I am going to spend then to start a project and just get in deeper. With a crate motor, I know what I am up against and I have a higher degree of confidence in the final product.

Keith, make sure the crate motor you're buying is built by the factory. It's more likely it's built at an outside contractor's facility that was hired for service rebuilds, etc. That will not be as likely to be built right as a factory build. Different processes, I'm sure.

Also, keep in mind many of us are making over 100 RWHP (AI) more than the stock engine can put out. Obviously buying a crate motor in this instance isn't the best path.

Tony,

I'm a little worried about you saying you're going to port your heads in AI. I really think you'll overshoot your HP target for AI unless you'll have a very heavy car. I wouldn't do anything more than rebuild your current heads and run a cam a little better than a Hot Cam (like a XE 224/230). This should be good for at least 340 RWHP and that's plenty.

Well, I know others have grenaded "high mileage" motors pretty early on....myself my motor was 112,000 when I bought it, so YOUR MOTOR is just broken in.....

If it WAS ME...I would spend minimum needed to get the current motor running....spend your race budget getting the safety, suspension, etc. stuff done....then buy a block off of ebay...I bought one for $175...and start prepping THAT for your final motor. If you were like me, you get a season out of "'ol reliable" while building the motor of your dreams. If it blows, you should be well along the line in building the race motor so it can be completed in short order....

Personally I think $5k is a bit high for a stock motor....I'ld rather take the $175 block sink in less, or at MOST the same, and have a MUCH better motor....JMHO