If I wanted to race my car?
My car is a 96 WS6. Basicaly all LG susp. with Koni's. Tons of engine work, 383 stroker with all the goodies. To date the interior and body are still completely stock. This car is worth, I would hope, mid to upper teens with all the work and the shape it is in. If I was to gut the interior and take it racing what would it be worth? 5K to 7K?
I would need a tow vehicle. Could a Jeep Grand Cherakee V8 do this? I don't really want a pick-up as a daily driver. Show me picks of what you go to the track with. Everything needed to get thru a weekend.
From what I read on this site it's either CMC or NASA. Not to many here ever mention SCCA. Why, to many rules? No where good to race F-body's?
I've been to NASA's site and unserstand that there is a good series in the eastern mid-west, or something like that. If I understand it most rules are toward saftey. Just keep it in the power to weight ratio and your good.
What is CMC?
Where is CMC?
Can a car run both CMC amd NASA and be legal/competative?
Just looking for anything that would help understand how big the commitment might be and how to fit it into my life. For example, I work almost every Saturday and late into the afternoon on Fridays. It would require time off now and then and this also represents lost income.
Just venting a lot of thoughts/questions that I have had. Or maybe just fantasizing.
Steve
Full Version: Where/how to go racing w/F-body
I am dealing with similar questions.
I too have a Jeep GC V8.. Mine is a 5.9L and it will tow 7500pnds.
Which narrows me (and probably you) down to a open trailer and the FBody... and then only for short distances.
For now I carry the race tires in the Jeep and then my wife and I drive both vehicles.
As for you schedule... if you autocross then usually it is only on sundays. You should be okay in that respect, but I can't speak of the other racing events.
I too have a Jeep GC V8.. Mine is a 5.9L and it will tow 7500pnds.
Which narrows me (and probably you) down to a open trailer and the FBody... and then only for short distances.
For now I carry the race tires in the Jeep and then my wife and I drive both vehicles.
As for you schedule... if you autocross then usually it is only on sundays. You should be okay in that respect, but I can't speak of the other racing events.
You don't have to race wheel to wheel in order to track drive. Time Trials and HPDE events allow you to drive at the limit without the need to gut the car or prep the car to a very narrow set of specs. However, if you really need to do the "door-to-door" competition thing, then NASA or SCCA is likely where you ought to focus. By the way, I've done Time Trials and HPDE events for seven years witout the luxury of a trailered vehicle (just need a small trailer to lug tires/tools). Have fun finding your favorite way to Quickly lighten your wallet. We tell people it's a hobby, because a lot of people still think addiction is an ugly word...
NASA is the sanctioning body for High Performance Drivers Education (HPDE), Time Trials (TT), Camaro/Mustang Challenge (CMC), American Iron (AI) and American Iron Extreme (AIX).
HPDE is comprised of all kinds of cars ... run what you brung. Minimal safety gear is required and passing is very, very restricted. It's comprised of guys who want to push themselves and their cars, but don't want to get them bent.
TT is an extension of HPDE in that you get a chance to go out and strut your stuff as a driver. A PAX index levels the playing field from car to car. A 996TT and a miata can compete side by side.
CMC is basically a showroom stock Camro or Mustang competing wheel to wheel. It is true competition. It's a very restrictive class in that it limits mods. Your car is so far gone, it would cost more to de-mod and retro-fit than it would to get a roller and build it up.
AI is more open to mods, but there is a strict HP to weight ratio. For instance, if my '98 TA were to compete in AI, it would have to weigh 4200lbs!
AIX is basically for everything else Mustang or Camaro.
SCCA ... I'll let Randy discuss that.
I have a 400rwhp, LGM suspended '98 TA and was facing your delima. In November, I bought a '96 that had some serious issues. With help, I gutted it and sold enough parts off of it and my '98 to pay for the basic car and cage. I've spent another 3500 to 4000 (afraid to add up the receipts) on the rest of the stuff I needed, including another motor, new Painless wiring harness (the stock one was hacked up) and driving gear.
The little detail stuff will eat you alive. If you look at it realistically, you think you can build a CMC car for $6K ... trust me, you'll spend $10K.
You can buy a proven race car in the 12-15K range ... one that needs some work in the 8-10K range.
HPDE is comprised of all kinds of cars ... run what you brung. Minimal safety gear is required and passing is very, very restricted. It's comprised of guys who want to push themselves and their cars, but don't want to get them bent.
TT is an extension of HPDE in that you get a chance to go out and strut your stuff as a driver. A PAX index levels the playing field from car to car. A 996TT and a miata can compete side by side.
CMC is basically a showroom stock Camro or Mustang competing wheel to wheel. It is true competition. It's a very restrictive class in that it limits mods. Your car is so far gone, it would cost more to de-mod and retro-fit than it would to get a roller and build it up.
AI is more open to mods, but there is a strict HP to weight ratio. For instance, if my '98 TA were to compete in AI, it would have to weigh 4200lbs!
AIX is basically for everything else Mustang or Camaro.
SCCA ... I'll let Randy discuss that.
I have a 400rwhp, LGM suspended '98 TA and was facing your delima. In November, I bought a '96 that had some serious issues. With help, I gutted it and sold enough parts off of it and my '98 to pay for the basic car and cage. I've spent another 3500 to 4000 (afraid to add up the receipts) on the rest of the stuff I needed, including another motor, new Painless wiring harness (the stock one was hacked up) and driving gear.
The little detail stuff will eat you alive. If you look at it realistically, you think you can build a CMC car for $6K ... trust me, you'll spend $10K.
You can buy a proven race car in the 12-15K range ... one that needs some work in the 8-10K range.
Steve, you'll be better off selling your Firebird and buying a car to race like Mitch did. You've done too much to your engine to use it for any racing class you could afford to race in and stripping your car down to the bone is a serious job.
My Firebird still has a car cover over it and I'm driving my Camaro every once in awhile when I need a fix. If you're considering racing, my Firebird is still for sale and I'd love to be able to park the Camaro in the garage. However, at your stage, do quite a few track days and see what it's like before you make the jump.
My Firebird still has a car cover over it and I'm driving my Camaro every once in awhile when I need a fix. If you're considering racing, my Firebird is still for sale and I'd love to be able to park the Camaro in the garage. However, at your stage, do quite a few track days and see what it's like before you make the jump.
Another thing to mention amongst these very good points is that to start off learning with a high hp car is difficult. Lower hp cars are much easier to deal with. High hp will just get you into trouble faster with less time to correct. When I instruct folks with high hp cars I generally have to talk a lot faster! 
Where are you located? NASA has a new Midwest Region that will be running at Road America, Blackhawk Farms, Autobahn, Mid-America, and Putnam Park. Most of the racers for this region will be from Illinois & Wisconsin. If you're further east, then NASA Ohio/Indiana region is available.
I'd also recommend the HPDE or TT. W2W is more demanding on money, time, and required equipment (truck & trailer). Besides, you need to be able to afford to walk away from your car if you pile it up!
If you have any specific F-body racing questions please ask. I've been racing W2W since '99 and my teammate and I have built (5) 3rd gens.
Sidney Franklin
'89 Firebird Formula
#64 AI
I'd also recommend the HPDE or TT. W2W is more demanding on money, time, and required equipment (truck & trailer). Besides, you need to be able to afford to walk away from your car if you pile it up!
If you have any specific F-body racing questions please ask. I've been racing W2W since '99 and my teammate and I have built (5) 3rd gens.
Sidney Franklin
'89 Firebird Formula
#64 AI
Regarding the value of your '96 TA,...
Mods make your car worth-less, not more.You may have trouble selling it in the mid teens, but what do I know about that???
I think MitchinTX was right on w the build up costs, I had $15K in my ITE 3rd Gen, (and $40K+ in the Vette)
Just do some HPDEs and then decide if you want to go W2W racing. you could have plenty of fun just doing track events for years to come, and that may be what you were really asking anyway.
You could Cam the 383 to work fine in AI but I haven't checked the rules in while.
Have fun
Mods make your car worth-less, not more.You may have trouble selling it in the mid teens, but what do I know about that???
I think MitchinTX was right on w the build up costs, I had $15K in my ITE 3rd Gen, (and $40K+ in the Vette)
Just do some HPDEs and then decide if you want to go W2W racing. you could have plenty of fun just doing track events for years to come, and that may be what you were really asking anyway.
You could Cam the 383 to work fine in AI but I haven't checked the rules in while.
Have fun
QUOTE (mitchntx @ Feb 17 2005, 08:10 PM)
SCCA ... I'll let Randy discuss that.
...word is the SCCA is going to run events this year similar to HPDE events in NASA.....which the San Francisco region has ALREADY been doing with great success...
best bet is to go online at SCCA.com and look up the local region and call the office and ask what is available in YOUR area....
Uhm, yeah, that's a good idea. I just checked and my regional site has recently been updated.... Looks like those Solo I events I was planning on this year no longer exist! 
Man, I didn't realize they were doing this everywhere.... Time to de-mod the car down to ESP specs.
Man, I didn't realize they were doing this everywhere.... Time to de-mod the car down to ESP specs.
QUOTE (Jon A @ Mar 4 2005, 11:24 PM)
Uhm, yeah, that's a good idea. I just checked and my regional site has recently been updated.... Looks like those Solo I events I was planning on this year no longer exist!
Man, I didn't realize they were doing this everywhere.... Time to de-mod the car down to ESP specs.
Man, I didn't realize they were doing this everywhere.... Time to de-mod the car down to ESP specs.
...you got the WRONG attitude altogether Jon.....
....its time to STOP trying to make a race car as a daily driver and just STRIP IT down to a real race car....
....then go out and get a great deal on a C5 Z06...which can be had in the low 20's if you look real hard....for a daily driver...
:leaving:
I was joking. 
De-mod? 
De-mod?
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