Article:

http://www.nbc4.tv/news/4562562/detail.html

Pics:

http://nbc4.tv/slideshow/news/4562709/detail.html

More info at corner carvers:

http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showthrea...ead.php?t=23616



Be safe out there guys.

Terrible news.

On a side note, we had a car just like that at our local autoX on sunday. It sounded like an F1 car. Someone said they go for about $450,000

Yes, that's about right. I saw a video from an autocross with one of them running, maybe it was your event.

Here's the full details on it:
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/show...ad.php?t=207543

Apparently, a Ferrari driver was waived onto the track in error, and came out in front of the GT which was traveling at about 150MPH. The Porsche took evasive action and missed the Ferrari but ended up in the wall.

Terrible story.

Yes this is HORRIBLE news....

Just goes to show you how careful you guys NEED TO BE out there. Don't mean to upset anyone here, or step on anyones toes, but this type of thing would worry me a lot in HPDE events. I don't know this guys situation, but it seems at the VERY FEW HPDE events I have been to, there are PLENTY of guys with more money than brains/skill, and they could and do get themselves into trouble more than occaisionally---fortunately not this bad typically. I also hear plenty of stories of how guys "are blowing the doors off" Ferraris and Porsches at their club events...all good and well, but there are also stories of how these big money guys "don't like to get passed" and will "hold you up"....one NEVER knows when pushing an inexperienced driver ABOVE his limits because he or she is embarassed to be passed by a lowly Chevy, will cause them to lose it and maybe take you out with them....

BE CAREFUL GUYS!

Yeah, it is a shame this happened. What you said is what I described in my recent post in this section about my trip to the Ferrari club day about a month ago:

"All in all I was happy that I run with the BMW club. They are much more friendly and they aren’t ashamed to give point-bys. The skills of the drivers in the advanced group in the BMW Club seem to be much higher than the advanced group Ferrari guys. Some of these guys at Pocono weren’t even close to the correct line."

I wasn't overly impressed with how the Ferrari Club track day was run. Have you ever seen anything like this?----They almost didn't let me out with an instructor in the car? I'm a intermediate/advanced student. Why would it even be a question of whether to have a more knowledgeable trained instructor with you:

VIDEO"Blue students can't take passenger/instructors out?!?!?!?" VIDEO

After wading through pages and pages of posts on about a half dozen boards (that corner carvers thread had a link to a board, that linked to a board, etc) it appears that he was an experienced enthusiast with several very nice cars and was not a novice driver (though I don't know his actual level of experience, it appears that he was not new at this). I'm going to guess that there are very few people on this planet who would not potentially be "in over their head" in that car or have the ability to wind up there. I don't mean this as a negative reflection on the driver, but more as a statement that it is a tremendous amount of car. However, the same thing could have easily happened in a Corvette, 911, Camaro, Cobra, etc (though possibly at a lower speed due to the HP differences). As Randy said, it should cause us to reflect upon our safety prep, both car and driver.

Be safe out there.

I can't imagine the great loss to both families involved and wish them the best in a very difficult time. The ability to learn from this and possibly save another life is likely the only positive we can take away from this tragic event.

Everyone brings up good points concerning safety. As an instructor and racer I cannot emphasize this enough. Looking at the aftermath here we have a topless car with pretty much airbags, probably stock seatbelts and nothing else really for protection. If you are going to play on the track then do your safety first, get a cage, head and neck protection, fire and a good 3" belt system. I have seen too many crumpled up cars in high performance driving events. The ones with good cages always do better. My mantra: "Safety is planned, accidents are not."

Coincidentally I spoke with the NASA track marshall before I went on track at California Speedway. I'm sure the tips he gave me about that track kept me from making common mistakes and having the awesome weekend I did back in March. It is worth finding these guys before you go on a new track. I know they(entire safety crew) go through their own personal hells when something like this happens, my thoughts go out to them as well as the families and friends involved.

i think i'd rather be dead than see the repair bills for a wall crash of a carrera GT :/

damn, just in time for me to chill out, i'm going to autobahn north loop tommorow and i heard it's got some high speed turns. i hope i'll be able to post stuff monday. if not, we can blame it all on trackbird, it's his brakes

Thats horrible..

I really hope that everyone can take this story to heart.. Be Careful!

http://www.nbc4.tv/news/4562562/detail.html

Update:

....good points Julie....

I gotta say....if was going to spend ANYTHING other that a once or twice type of thing at speeds of over 100 MPH....I WOULD NOT DO SO WITHOUT A FULL CAGE and the accompanying safety equipment....

With a wife and two kids who depend on me daily...I can BARELY justify the risk of amatuer racing with "pro level" safety equipment....this is one area where I do NOT skimp on....performance mods ALWAYS come second...

Take note guys and gals and stay safe!

Exactly what my wife said.... As I was buying the cars I need to get one on the track we were discussing fire bottles and she said we are NOT going to skimp on the safety equipment, she wants a fire supression system vice a hand held bottle in my car.... her family has been into sprint car racing for years and she's seen it all when it comes to accidents...

Right on. I bumped up the safety in my car over the winter by correctly mounting my belts and putting in an aluminum race seat with back braces. I've also been wearing a Nomex suit now. I'm thinking a HANS device will be next followed by conversion from a 6pt to a full cage. It doesn't even have to be your mistake, it can be car failure, oil, etc. You never know.

the passenger was married just 30 days ago. for whatever reason that is a huge fear of mine. im young im not about to get married, but the thought of me finally finding that special someone only to leave them or have them leave me unexpectedly shortly after getting married really bothers me. this whole situation just sucks and i feel for all those involved

I feel for the familys and friends of these guys. What a horrible accident.
Some very good advice I am hearing from all of you guys and we always want to double check everything when at the race track.

I am sure somehow this wiil impact all of us because I am sure a lawsuit is sure to follow.

What a Tragedy!

This is why alot of Clubs putting on HPDE are no longer allowing Convertables.
That being said, I too have been in the "minority" when @ many HPDE events, Porshe, BMW, Shelby/Mustang, etc. I have been "Allowed" to pass with some groups, others have the mentalty that their car is better thereforethey shound not "Have" to let me by.

Lets all try to 'Behave" correctly, and watch out for the other driver!

My prayers to all involved.

Gary Matteson & Family

I too feel bad for the families.

Accidents happen.

Don't know how much of a chance someone would have if they had a rollcage since if you hit something dead on at 150 you're pretty much screwed.

...you'ld be surprised...I was racing with that Griggs racing Mustang last year that they posted on their website as an "advertisement" to the integrity of their cages/cars.....He was FLAT OUT up and under start/finish at Laguna when a Spec Miata driver decided to move over into him while he was at about 140 .....he went STRAIGHT INTO THE WALL...and he WAS hurt...but nothing more than cracked ribs and a broken ankle if memory serves correct.....cages/well built cars saves lives.....

Doing 150 in a CONVERTABLE with stock seat belts and a helmet is I.N.S.A.N.E....

Absobleepinglutely!

I was glad to read about your safety plans guys!

I plan on adding an autopower weld in 6 point to my car, and I already have the harnesses.. When I hit the track I drive with a M98 approved helmet and a collar.. not much else. I would love to get a hans, but I don't see how totally necessary it would be considering I hit the track hopefully 1-2 times a year, but I guess it couldnt hurt!

Definitely not hurt, just decreases the odds you will be hurt! Glad you are wearing a neck collar- so many folks don't even do that! Only your wallet will hurt spending $ on safety and that is something that is recoverable. You, not so easy!

Reminded me of a post i placed last year. This is what scares the most .... having cars at the power levels they are + lack of racing safty + Lack of high speed experience overall on the track

http://frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?act=ST&...&f=1&t=2838&hl=

From a post on Corner Carvers:

http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showpost....73&postcount=71

My prayers are with their families; such a tragic loss.

This is precisely why I will have a full cage car the next time I hit the track, plus all the other personal safety equipment.

I would hope that event organizers would count cars for each run group and ensure ALL cars are off the track at the prescribed time.

I doubt it... don't everyone sign a waiver at the beginning of every event ?
This is very sad, but trying to sue the track will just bring more aggrevation and pain, unless they are strictly after money.

just to really show how important it is to follow protocoles and what instructors/organizers tell you.
They don't do so to piss people off, but mainly for safety/survival of all.
It's a very sad story, and I feel sorry for their families loss, but it seems that the guy was looking for it.

Now, my next mods (been in plans for quite awhile):
fire-suit
fire-extinguisher
neck-protector
upgrade my roll-bar to a 6-pt
race-seat + harness

All this will be done before I start doing faster events than AutoX.
Only live once.

This just goes to show how technology is propelling street cars to insane speeds that they are not safe to be driven at. A lowly Z06 is a good example.

It used to be you modified your car and as it got faster you had to add a lot of safety gear. Now they need it in stock configuration.

I'll definately add a decent 6 pt if I get into open tracking.

I'm not sure that is a fair assessment. I mean, it is correct to a point, but I'm not sure I fully agree with the thought process.

You can get in "big" trouble in a Geo Metro at it's 78 mph top speed (roughly). The car lacks the suspension and brakes to truly be capable at that speed. I'm not saying it will explode as soon as you clear 75 mph, just that it will go plenty fast to be fatal.

A Z06 is an extremely capable car. It is far safer at 130 mph than a Metro is at 80 (at least in my opinion). The point is, you can overdrive anything and the results can be similar. If I were open tracking a Metro, I'd want a roll bar/cage just the same as a Z06. I think you need to consider safety gear based on the event more than the vehicle.

My mostly stock 1989 Formula with a TBI drivetrain would run roughly 140 mph. Would it hold up to an accident at that speed? Not likely. It was rated at 170 hp....

If I was going to spend any time on a track in that car, it needed a cage/roll bar (in my opinion). That's not to take anything away from the fact that you can always write a check for a very fast car. The difference is that they are much cheaper these days. In the mid '80's a Ferrari Testarossa would run 181 mph and cost over $100K. Now, you can buy a Camaro (ok, you could) or a Corvette that will run very close to 170 (unrestricted) for far less (a base Z28 was in the mid to low 20k range). The cost of speed has come down, that's all.

I agree Kevin,

In today's "let's not take ANY responsability for ANYTHING" society, it is too easy to blame the car, or the track, or the sanctioning body for that matter. Fact of the matter is, 9 times out of 10 it is the nut behind the wheel who was responsible/"in control". The cars are just tools, and the fact that they are getting better and better is a GOOD thing....the fact that UNDERQUALIFIED people want to take them out and drive them WAY OVER THEIR HEADS is the problem....not saying that was the case here, but it happens a ton...

I'm in no way blaming the car or not saying it isn't the fault of the driver. I just think if you're going to run like that you should have proper safety equipment.

You still cannot control what other drivers do. That is why we were seatbelts and install roll bars/cages-to protect us from what we cannot control.

...totally agree...