what i'm looking for is a fuel alternative, and alcohol is only at 2/gal right now. that's going to be about half the price by the end of the week. if i don't have to do much i'd like to run alcohol. there are many benefits to doing this, just a few: runs cooler, burns cleaner, doesnt detonate, cheaper...just for a few pluses.
any way, what needs to be done to run alcohol? fuel filter change? pump change? timing changes? injector changes? ECM changes?
Full Version: running alcohol on a street car?
It eats everything, hoses, aluminum, etc. It's very hard on stuff and you have to burn about 2 times as much of it, which sorta kills the "savings".
i asked this question years and years ago before i really knew anything about cars. nothing has changed because no one is really looking at it for an alternative fuel. it simply at this point is not a good alternative and im not sure if it ever will be. they are mixing it with gas though in the midwest and thats doing fine. i believe its called F85 fuel or something. it may not even be alcohol that they are mixing but im positive its a grain liquid they mix with gasoline in 85% gasoline to 15% this other stuff.
just to rub salt into everyones wounds including my own, my roommates diesel mercedes runs on diesel or corn oil. he gets nearly 50mpg with either one running through the engine. the only down sides are filtering the used oil which he does get free from the local resturants and having to remember to switch back to dielsel a few miles before shutting off as the oil gets too thick when cold to be pumped by the current fuel system. he can go approx 1200 miles before he runs out of fuel if he has both tanks full. insight eat your heart out.
just to rub salt into everyones wounds including my own, my roommates diesel mercedes runs on diesel or corn oil. he gets nearly 50mpg with either one running through the engine. the only down sides are filtering the used oil which he does get free from the local resturants and having to remember to switch back to dielsel a few miles before shutting off as the oil gets too thick when cold to be pumped by the current fuel system. he can go approx 1200 miles before he runs out of fuel if he has both tanks full. insight eat your heart out.
QUOTE (Formula WS6 @ Sep 4 2005, 21:21)
i asked this question years and years ago before i really knew anything about cars. nothing has changed because no one is really looking at it for an alternative fuel. it simply at this point is not a good alternative and im not sure if it ever will be. they are mixing it with gas though in the midwest and thats doing fine. i believe its called F85 fuel or something. it may not even be alcohol that they are mixing but im positive its a grain liquid they mix with gasoline in 85% gasoline to 15% this other stuff.
just to rub salt into everyones wounds including my own, my roommates diesel mercedes runs on diesel or corn oil. he gets nearly 50mpg with either one running through the engine. the only down sides are filtering the used oil which he does get free from the local resturants and having to remember to switch back to dielsel a few miles before shutting off as the oil gets too thick when cold to be pumped by the current fuel system. he can go approx 1200 miles before he runs out of fuel if he has both tanks full. insight eat your heart out.
just to rub salt into everyones wounds including my own, my roommates diesel mercedes runs on diesel or corn oil. he gets nearly 50mpg with either one running through the engine. the only down sides are filtering the used oil which he does get free from the local resturants and having to remember to switch back to dielsel a few miles before shutting off as the oil gets too thick when cold to be pumped by the current fuel system. he can go approx 1200 miles before he runs out of fuel if he has both tanks full. insight eat your heart out.
Our standard gas has at least 10% in it. I thought E85 was over 50% alky?
E85 is 85% ethanol (thus the name)
There's also M85 in some places which is 85% methanol
The balance is petroluem (pretty much gasoline)
There's also M85 in some places which is 85% methanol
The balance is petroluem (pretty much gasoline)
so....alcohol is a no-go in a street car? that sucks because i've heard so much about it from this guy in the auto-hobby shop on base. he runs it when he goes to the track, then fills it back up when hes done. once he;s done with that, then he puts gas in it.
dang it i had it backwards. i was thinking it was 85% gas and 15% alky. i do not know much about it obviously. being down here where it doesnt exists doesnt help. thanks for clearing that up.
i talked to a car guru buddy of mine. this is what he says:
injectors have to be changed. since gas runs at 14:1 and alcohol runs at 7:1, you basically have to double whatever injector pressure you're running now.
you have to eliminate all emissions equipment. 02 sensors will read more o2 in the exhaust since alcohol is an "oxygenated" fuel. since it already has oxygen in it, the o2 levels in the exhaust are far more than that of gas, so the ECM will pump more fuel in until exhaust becomes that of what gas needs.
alcohol does not eat aluminum, however, it does destroy rubber. all rubber lines for gas must be swapped over to a teflon lined or braided steel. also, if the fuel tank is not stainless steel or plastic, it also has to be swapped.
he suggested running a carb type system because most people running alcohol do not run with injectors. it's easier to run a blown/carb'd system and there is way more potential than with injectors.
Alcohol does not detonate under pressure like gas. pressures of upwards around 80 PSI have been reached on blown apps and did not detonate like gas does.
injectors have to be changed. since gas runs at 14:1 and alcohol runs at 7:1, you basically have to double whatever injector pressure you're running now.
you have to eliminate all emissions equipment. 02 sensors will read more o2 in the exhaust since alcohol is an "oxygenated" fuel. since it already has oxygen in it, the o2 levels in the exhaust are far more than that of gas, so the ECM will pump more fuel in until exhaust becomes that of what gas needs.
alcohol does not eat aluminum, however, it does destroy rubber. all rubber lines for gas must be swapped over to a teflon lined or braided steel. also, if the fuel tank is not stainless steel or plastic, it also has to be swapped.
he suggested running a carb type system because most people running alcohol do not run with injectors. it's easier to run a blown/carb'd system and there is way more potential than with injectors.
Alcohol does not detonate under pressure like gas. pressures of upwards around 80 PSI have been reached on blown apps and did not detonate like gas does.
Not sure how much info is out there, but quite a few circle track, dirt Late Models run alcohol for shorter races. You might be able to pick up some additional info there.
From what I know in that application, you have to start the motor on gas (gas down the carb) and then it'll run on alcohol after that. You can still hurt the motor running it though. I know guys who have burnt up a few motors running alky, but I would suspect it was a lean situation.
From what I know in that application, you have to start the motor on gas (gas down the carb) and then it'll run on alcohol after that. You can still hurt the motor running it though. I know guys who have burnt up a few motors running alky, but I would suspect it was a lean situation.
I disagree on the O2 sensors. I'm a bit out of my element here, but this is my understanding FWIW.
The sensors are actually "lambda" sensors. What they sense is really the ratio of actual AFR to stoic, not absolute AFR. The stock sensors are narrowband sensors designed for lambda=1.
If you change fuels, the sensors will still switch at lamda=1 for that particular fuel (ie at whatever is stoic for that particular fuel), which is NOT necessarily 14.6.
The problem is really that the PCM interprets lambda=1 to mean an AFR of 14.6, and all the fueling calculations are based on 14.6.
So, you would probably need new injectors, and you would probably need to recalibrate the PCM (significantly), but I don't think the O2 sensors would be a problem.
However, in the LS1 PCM there is a single table entry to specify the stoic AFR for the fuel, and everything else is scaled from that. The stoic setting and the injectors tables would obviously need to be changed, but everything else may just fall into place.
The sensors are actually "lambda" sensors. What they sense is really the ratio of actual AFR to stoic, not absolute AFR. The stock sensors are narrowband sensors designed for lambda=1.
If you change fuels, the sensors will still switch at lamda=1 for that particular fuel (ie at whatever is stoic for that particular fuel), which is NOT necessarily 14.6.
The problem is really that the PCM interprets lambda=1 to mean an AFR of 14.6, and all the fueling calculations are based on 14.6.
So, you would probably need new injectors, and you would probably need to recalibrate the PCM (significantly), but I don't think the O2 sensors would be a problem.
However, in the LS1 PCM there is a single table entry to specify the stoic AFR for the fuel, and everything else is scaled from that. The stoic setting and the injectors tables would obviously need to be changed, but everything else may just fall into place.
I found this thread by a guy who says acetone will improve fuel economy 15-35% depending on driving habits. Old wives tale?
http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/faq.htm
http://peswiki.com/energy/Directory:Aceton...a_Fuel_Additive
http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/faq.htm
http://peswiki.com/energy/Directory:Aceton...a_Fuel_Additive
i'll try the mixture of 2.5oz per 13 galons in my honda. they have the same size gas tank and are both emissions legal, so it will be the experimental vehicle.
they also talked of having some other GUNK additives as well, so i may try and mix it with them first, then add them both together in the tank. something about the acetone being a carrier or delivery system for the other chemicals. any way, gimme about 2 weeks with just acetone and i'll tell you how it works out
they also talked of having some other GUNK additives as well, so i may try and mix it with them first, then add them both together in the tank. something about the acetone being a carrier or delivery system for the other chemicals. any way, gimme about 2 weeks with just acetone and i'll tell you how it works out
It was discussed here. I'm not interested in trying it and I agree with several of those posts (such as no gear lube in a gearbox that calls for ATF, etc. I'm guessing these guys are out in left field).
http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showthrea...ghlight=acetone
http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showthrea...ghlight=acetone
well, before i was getting about 16 mpg in the honda due to bad 02 sensors, crappy plugs, and deteriorated wires. i also have to replace the distributor because after 160k+ miles on factory plugs apparently isnt good on the connectors...they were near non-existence. any way, after the NGK plugs and wires, new universal bosch 02 sensors, and a fresh tank of gas, i'll let you guys know what's up. it should take about a week to determine the standing mileage, then next week i'll put in acetone.
by the way, for anyone else wanting to try this, at CVS in the nail polish section is a bottle of "pure" acetone for about 2.50. then i traveled to the travel section and found a small bottle of crest mouthwash that holds about 1.22oz. so i'll put in 2 bottle of acetone every full tank of gas or 13 gal.
hopefully i wont destroy the lines...they do have about 18 years on them, so wish me luck on the effects of acetone on rubber/plastic part
by the way, for anyone else wanting to try this, at CVS in the nail polish section is a bottle of "pure" acetone for about 2.50. then i traveled to the travel section and found a small bottle of crest mouthwash that holds about 1.22oz. so i'll put in 2 bottle of acetone every full tank of gas or 13 gal.
hopefully i wont destroy the lines...they do have about 18 years on them, so wish me luck on the effects of acetone on rubber/plastic part
just an update for ya...i ran into a problem...actually several. i had to change the plugs/wires/cap/rotor. so i did that and then i noticed i was still at crappy mileage. so, i looked for a fuel leak and found a faulty injector seal. so today i replaced them and started a baseline mpg rate. next week i will update how many i have as a baseline and then i'll fill up with acetone.
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