My wife has been looking at Mini Cooper's lately. Unfortunately, the Mini dealer didn't want her VW very badly (50% depreciation in 1.5 years and 25k miles?).

It was wet out and I kept the test drive short, but I really liked it (Cooper S). Actually, I liked it more than I thought I really would. It could use a bit more power, but it wasn't a pig (it's not a Camaro either). The handling was reasonably crisp and it was a bit go cart like. I found myself thinking that I could possibly live with one of those as a daily driver. And, tires and such for autocross will be considerably cheaper than my current ride. I'm really thinking that I should take another look at these. It's small, and really rather fun to drive.

She won't be buying one for a while, but....I could probably sell the Z at this point..... :leaving:

I know several folks around here who were open tracking Z06s, sold them and went the MC route, simply because of the economics ...

Mini Coopers are boatloads of fun. I've driven a lot of them and just make sure you get one with a diff. They really like to spin the inside tire. They have just about the best resale value out there, too.

I think one of the things that appealed to me is that you can "beat on it" and not have to worry about tickets.

For example, I recently drove my friends 1999 Civic SI (8,500 rpm redline/160 hp). I had tried this car in traffic in Columbus, OH and hated it (no torque and didn't get moving until 5k). However, on the backroads around Summit Point (actually up in Martinsburg, but they are all similar) it's a riot. I can hammer it through the first two gears and just be reaching the speed limit. You can work the gearbox and the motor and not be doing 80-ish at the top of 2nd gear. The Cooper S was the same way, I could run it through a couple gears and not be doing 100+ mph. Though I must admit that after 6,000 rpm, Honda actually got the sound track right. The car develops a throaty growl (not real throaty, more of a nice alto) that is fun to listen to (even if it's not real fast).

My biggest problem (to some extent) with the Camaro as a daily driver is that it's "too fast" to have any real fun with on the street. You run it through 1st and 2nd and part of the way into third and you're in the 80-90 mph range. Not that I don't like the power, but a car that lets you row the gearbox can be lots of fun as well, even if it's slower.

I really think I could consider buying a Mini Cooper S to play with (and my wife will kill me since she wants one). Or, I could sell my car, get her a Mini and take the GTI 1.8t (I've already had a GTI, so I really don't want another one).

I'll probably do nothing, but a Mini is tempting.

My wife bought a Mini Cooper last year, and I have driven it quite a bit. She decided to keep her '93 TA, but it has been parked with a toasted clutch since she got the Cooper.

I think the car is fun to drive, but if I start beating on it, my wife beats on me! It is quite nimble on tight, twisty streets. The biggest disappointment is she got one with an auto tranny, since she communtes in stop & go traffic. You can manually shift it, but it's still no where near the same as having a real manual. Every other time I get in the car, I stomp the floor with my left foot trying to find the clutch! A car like this really needs a stick.

I think it's a little heavy for it's size; it's loaded with "creature comforts." Her's is not an "S" either, so it's a little lacking in power IMO.

Getting one wouldn't be a bad idea, but don't sell your Camaro unless you're going to replace that with a Z06!

I like the Minis, but I think I'd have to go with something different if I was in the market for a hatchback. Maybe a used Focus SVT or even a new Cobalt SS (oh wait, not a hatchback, eh close enough). Even take a flyer on a Mazda 3 if I liked the way it drove. The Minis are cool for sure, but I'm sick of seeing 35 of them at every autocross I go to I guess.

I've seen a couple Cooper S' at the track and hey where hanging with the porche boxers.

I've heard they are very fun to drive but haven't test driven one.

Well, I'm not planning to run next year in my Camaro, and I probably wouldn't gather up wheels and such that quickly for the Mini either (if I were to buy one ). I'm actually thinking that I'm in the mood for a car that I can just drive and not work on. I've got a ton of money (ok, not as much as some here, but a good bit) in my car and I just don't feel like spending the money on the care and feeding of this beast some days.

But, I'm not in the mood for a car payment, and since I already have one, I'm not in the mood for a different car payment, and that means I'm probably just keeping the Camaro.

Sadly, my friend owned a Focus and had nothing but trouble with it (fuel pump relay/switch kept leaving him stuck places). I really don't like the styling either (personal preference). Cobalt...I don't think GM builds anything I'd buy right now that isn't a Corvette. I might consider a truck, but I have little interest in the rest of their offerings.

They had a nice used (2003) BMW M5 on the lot yesterday. I could get probably get used to that (other than the $53K they wanted for it).

My wife was really interested in a Mini....but she wanted a convertible. Which I was totally against.

Now the problem of trading a SUV in is non-existant with the depreciation hit you take.

She has also changed her mind about a million times and is now looking to see what the new Pontiac G6 vert looks and sells for.

I drove a Cooper S on the track a year or so back. It was a student's car and he urged me to drive it. I found it twitchy in the turns. I could go from understeer to oversteer very quickly with just small changes to the throttle position. It would take me some time to get used to it.

Overall, it was surprisingly quick. Just not my cup of tea.

Let's not forget that a Mini is a SMALL car, if it didn't turn on a dime then there would be something seriously wrong with it. The shorter wheelbase alone dictates this. Lets face it, a Mini's wheelbase is about 3/4's of an F-body.

Personally I like the idea that I can get up to highway speed without shifting 4 or 5 times. You don't have to push an F-body to get the job done in a reasonable amount of time. We complain about ricers and how they're screaming all the time, maybe it's because they have to just to keep up.

If there's no good place to shift into second based on course layout I can launch the car in second and still get some wheel spin a few feet out. Once I'm in second gear I rarely need first. Even on slower turns I can keep it in second and have plenty of torque.

True, but on a backroad, if you are in and out of gears in an F-body, you are probably going way too fast. And, I agree that it's nice to blend with traffic in a single gear (or nearly so), but there is something to be said for a car you can "drive" and you have to keep cooking a bit to get the job done. Basically, if you lower the limits, you can drive the car 85% and not risk serious jail time.

Think of "bombing down backroads" in an old Toyota van. You can work really hard and not go very quickly at all (but you might feel like you are). That's the extreme example of what I was saying (it can be fun to have to work a bit to go quickly).

Remember, I'm talking about this purely from a street car perspective.

My Camaro is almost too fast to be a fun street car for the occasional back road trip. By the time I'm shifting in and out of a few gears and having fun, I'm approaching 90+, or I would be. So, I just stuff it in 5th and drive home instead and can go plenty fast to get in trouble with no real effort. When the limits are that high, it's tough to actually get to have any fun with it.

I guess part of my thinking of Mini's (and such) is since I've decided not to autocross next year. I just can't justify the cost for 10 days of running (between front bearings, a rear end rebuild/bearings, brake pads, rotors tires, event fees and fuel, I'm looking at close to $2500, or at least $2,000, for 10 days of running events).

I can see your point, but for a daily driver having to shift more would get old quick.

Nah, I drive in rush hour traffic in Columbus, OH every day. I shift plenty.....

I have been a passenger instructing in a lot of different Minis, stock, S, modded, they are all very cool. I think they are a blast and would not mind having one! The solid feel of them is really nice.

Great little cars. My sister and her husband ordered one (under my supervision) last year. It was $22-23 optioned the way I demanded... never know when I might want to run G-stock.

Cooper S, LSD, Xenon lights/heated seats, no sunroof, Harman/Kardon, no leather, etc. All the fun stuff, none of the crap. Fun car, I took it at the end of September and ran 11th on PAX at a Steel Cities event bone stock, right down to the alignment and Dunlop run-flat tires (I added some air).

I'm not all that comfortable in it. Plenty of headroom and legroom. But the width of the hole between the door, console and dash is a bit tight for me. My right knee is pretty much hard up against the console all the time.

It gets 30mpg. Scheduled maintainence (but 10k mile oil changes, at least it's synthetic), brake pads, etc..... That's a nice little savings. So easy to drive in traffic. Quick enough to get into holes. Small enough for parking spaces I'd pass up in the Camaro for sure.

Could do worse, that's for sure.... I'd consider a Supercharged Cobalt SS. Um, remember that SS doesn't mean blown, that's an option. I'd pass on the Focus SVT. Great handling, but never really liked the ones I drove, and I know Kozlak's have a TON of trouble with theirs.

I assume that Keith's issue with the car he drove is poor setup (go figure). They are great handling cars stock, and it's so easy to mess them up and not at all easy to improve them much in the chassis department. I researched this, including the fact I know spring rates!!!! Just one of the many cars I deal with daily..

Yeah but not all of us are size XXX Sasquatch.

I'm not a small guy either. I'm 5'11" and 245 lbs. But I was comfortable in it.

I had about a 10-15 lap ride in a slightly modded Cooper S at Limerock last year. It was an instructor driving and it had Hoosiers for sneakers. That is the only car I've ever had a ride in (have had other rides at LRP before) that has made my neck tired. That thing seemed like it was pulling so much G force in the uphill that I was trying to counter my head from running out the driver side window so hard my neck hurt!

A Mini S with Hoosiers is a recipe for neck pain indeed!

I have sat in some Mini's, but as much as I would want to like them for a dual-purpose car, I just won't fit very well and would be frustrated at spending the money for the car and being contorted on a daily basis. I'm 6'2"/215 and I'd have to put the front seat in the back to get comfortable!

I've done fun runs in both the Mini S and Cobalt SS. My nod goes to the Cobalt. I'm sure with more seat time, I would have felt more comfortable in the Mini, but it just felt really odd. There was noticable boost lag and tons of understeer. (But I never was a good front wheel drive-driver anyway) There was no noticable lag in the Cobalt, and I was impressed by how easily I could toss it around on stock tires. It transitioned very well. Both cars lacked an lsd. While you may be able to get by without one in the Mini, it is an absolute necessity in the Cobalt. Even the slightest touch of the throttle in a turn would smoke the inside tire. With all that power, I'll bet the Cobalt would make a smokin track car too.

Thought all supercharged Cobalts had LSDs?

I just can't get past the idea that $22K (approx price of a "stripped" supercharged Cobalt SS) would have bought a Z28 a few years ago, and will still buy a 2006 Miata MX-5 (which, unlike previous years, will fit me) or a Solstice with LSD.

To me, part of the definition of a "practical" car, even with sporty options, is that it must cost a lot less than the "not practical" cars I'd really want.

One "problem" is that the Cobalt SS can only be had with everything. Leather, power stuff, etc. Only options are curtain airbags, sunroof, satellite radio, maybe one other thing.

A $22K Z28 had far fewer "goodies" and that was 4 years ago.

I know what you mean about the cost/benefit analysis though. Carmax has a 2001 Z06 with 30K miles for $27,700. $5K (probably more like $7K when the deal is done) premium for a 'vette with 385hp. Hmmmm And, it won't depreciate as much/as fast as a new car will.

I'd buy a Z06, but it wouldn't work for daily driver (snow and all) duties like my current car. I'd really like to have one of those, but it's low on the list for a while.

Howdy,

Brian, if you think that sounds good, look for regular C5's. :-)

I think there's a big difference between a mini/cobalt/civic/whatever and a miata/solstice though... And its called "seating for four". :-)

For me, for a daily driver I want a car with four doors first. That dq's the mini, the civic si, and (I think) the cobalt right there. We don't have kids or anything like that, its just that having four doors makes groceries, hauling friends or the dog or whatever so much easier.

We ended up getting a new civic LX sedan (with an automatic even! :-) and I've been pretty happy with it for a daily driver. If I wanted something a little more sporty/"drivery" I think I'd look at one of the "economy" four doors with a manual... Civic, Corolla, Cobalt, Neon, etc. If those didn't have it enough, I'd probably look at a mini and get over the four door thing. For the mini though, I'd take a look at an HS one vs. the GS, just on the "rowing the gears & having fun without going insanely fast" criteria.

Of course, the only mini I've ever driven has been an SM one with more boost & suspension... It was fun and pretty neutral, but I understand it has a decent bit more power than stock.

Mark

Kevin realisitically speaking how stock would a Mini Cooper stay if you bought one?

Very.

I used to own a 2000VW GTI VR6. I looked at the giant turbo kits for that car, the springs, the shocks, etc. I drove that car for 2 years (after building my caged 3rd gen that I should have kept....I was no stranger to project cars) and you know what I changed on it?

Oil (mobile 1), oil filters, and the air filter (I added a K&N).

I ran G stock in it on race tires mounted on 16" steel wheels that I got from a friend at the VW dealer and that was it. I never even had the alignment done. I just drove it, even won a few trophies in it.

It would stay that stock. I really can keep my toolbox closed and my hands off of things if I feel like it.

Our GTI turbo has a stock paper filter in it and I have not installed a boost controller in it either (easy HP). It's also stock, right down to the air in the tires (I've added a little, but still).

So, you regretted selling your 3rd gen and now you want to dump your 4th gen.

I decided a while ago that I'm just gonna keep my '95 for the forseeable future. I've only sold one car in my life and I now view it as a mistake (had lots of good reasons at the time, and I made money on it, but I still regret it). Not saying I'll never sell another car, just not going to sell the ones I get enjoyment out of. When the time comes I'll drop my '85 Maxima like a bad habit, just as long as I'm getting something interesting to replace it with. Until I can do that, I'll just keep what I have.

Yea, I'd rather have a 3rd gen. I like my 4th gen, but I don't really like my 4th gen. And I'm starting to get too cheap to deal with the care and feeding of these beasts (front hubs, 315's, etc). As I said, I'm not saying I'm doing anything, but I have been remembering the simple days where I put gas in my GTI and drove it. Those were nice.

Though I really started this thread to say that these are fun little cars that I might enjoy driving on a daily basis.

Howdy,

In terms of "do I keep it stock or not" one of the things I like about having the new civic as a daily driver is that I have no motivation to modify it at all... and its quite nice to have a vehicle that all I do is change the consumables and drive it.

Same thing with my tow vehicle.

Mark

That's exactly why I'm driving a Camaro instead of a Vette. No, it isn't the right vehicle for a long road trip with 4 adults, but 2+2 does work for short trips and children.

I despise four-doors other than the new crop of suicide door options (like the RX8). The extra door just gets in my way, since I can't normally reach anything in the back seat through the front door. I LOVE shuffling doors in a downpour or a tight parking space while extracting whatever I need from the back.

I admit that I looked at a lot of child seats before I found one that would fit, and I didn't find any good options for a rear-facing infant seat, but my two-year-old daughter fits quite happily in the back of "daddy's car".

Like Sam said, the fbody is a pain to park, and that's really the biggest drawback to me (other then the self-induced headache from lowering it).

Heck, take a few inches out of the door thickness on the fbody, trim the front overhang a bit, and leave it at stock height and it's close to my ideal commuter.

Honestly Kevin if I wanted to go that route I'd get a Formula Ford for CM and tow it behind whatever car is practical or comfortable for me to drive daily.

No, that would probably make sence. GM offers it as an option.

I think they make a 4-door version of the Cobalt SS. Just in case you ever get tired of that Honda.

The supercharger is only available in the two-door.

Interesting reading ...

If you drill down deep enough, it appears that the biggest gripe so many have is not necessarily the platform itself, but making the platform pull double duty .... commuter and racer.

I feel your pain.

What a nightmare it was to drive my '98 M-F and then prep it for race track duty and then unprep it for M-F once again. Not only a pain, but expensive!

I had to have 2 sets of everything expendable, like tires, wheels, brakes ...

Keeping it clean was a huge effort. And heaven help me if I broke something.

When I made the jump and built a race only car, I saw my expenses drop dramatically and the fun came back to driving in each arena.

Example: I typically put a few thousand dollars into a savings account using my work bonus money and call it my racing budget. Last year, the first year I ran a dedicated race car, was the first year I had a significant chunk (about 30%) left over after the season and I logged more track time than ever before.

Now I chose a series to compete in that is very budget minded, but that was part of the process I factored in.

I know it sounds expensive on the surface, but it seems to work.

My street car is a lot happier and my budget is a lot happier ....

I've said this before, but if I was a smart man I would have left my loaded Z28 stock (except for shocks and swaybars - I really can't stand the feel of stock shocks) and bought a stripper Formula as a race car. Now, if I bought a second car, the path of least resistance would be to use the stock, light, large fendered car as a street car, and the modified, heavy, power everything, small fendered car as the race car. Of course, the alternative is to de-mod the first car, as Mitch can painfully attest to. The stuff that involved drilling and/or welding would be difficult to undo, though.