I was doing an autotrader search for 3rd gen Camaros in the 89-92 year range and was surprised with the prices I was seeing. I only did a 200 mile search and got about a full page of Camaros in the 7k-10k price range. And a few of them were near 15k. Granted, they were the super low mileage garage queens. But come on, you can get a really nice low mileage LS1 car for that kind of coin. Most of the cars in the 7-10k range had between 25k and 50k miles on them. This is what struck me as odd. I bought my 94 Z28 6-speed hardtop last summer with only 28k in absolutely mint (and I mean M-I-N-T) condition for 7k. And as far as LT1 4th gens go, that seems to be the top of the pricerange.
Is this a sign of things to come? Is my car going to increase in value once the 5th gens come out? This doesn't make any sence to me.

Going off experience, the 4th gens will probably go down in value temporarily when the 5th gens arrive. Its hard to say what market the 5th gen will appeal to, especially if they keep the independent rear suspension that was on the show car and the $30k+ starting price tag.

Cant claim to be an expert, but nice 3rd gens have pretty much crossed over the line into collector category.

1st gens are outrageous. 2nd gens close behind. That leaves 3rd gens for weekend collectors like me. 4th gens are still daily driver material, but even there, its hard to find nice 4th gens with V8's that don't have leftover holes where the nitrous used to be, a major mechanical problem or cigarette burns in the seats.

Whenever I see an Fbody for sale I pull over and look at it. The nice ones are getting harder to find (ie supply and demand)

I think it may depend on where you live as well. I bought a mint 87 GTA last year for $6500 (Florida) which I came across by pure luck. I have only seen maybe 6 or 8 3rd gens for sale in the past year that I would even consider buying. The rest are just one rod bearing away from being parked in the woods.

my $0.02

Bock

I think Bock is right. 3rd gens are more that likely going to be on a price upswing.

But I did a 200 mile search from here and found 40+ under 4 grand.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/searchresult...mp;keywordsrep=

The last 3 4th gens I bought, for CMC use all together totalled under $3500 ...

Yeah there are cheap ones all over the place. But what I was searching for were newer 3rd gens (89-92) with under 100k miles and in good shape. Good shape being no rust, good paint, minimal interior wear, and mechanically sound. I'm not even talking about L98 cars, just plain old 305 tbi daily driver stuff. I was expecting to find many of those examples in the $3,000-$5,000 range, but they seem to be worth much more. Mabey I'm just cheap.
After I made this thread, I went back and did a search for 93-97 Camaros. Apparently, they're worth alot more than I thought too. I guess I got a better deal on mine than I thought.

We don't know if they are getting those numbers or not, but they are asking that. I have a feeling that they are getting good money for many of them. If you had an '89 Turbo TA in great shape, you'd be sitting on a mint (it seems).

When I was looking to buy an F-body I was originally looking for a 3rd gen. After seeing what a straight 3rd gen cost it made more sense for me to upgrade to a 4th gen. This was in '02.

I saw the same trend when i last checked what my old 92'Z(traded up when i got my 97'SS) was worth. I was alittle shocked to see that my 97 had almost depreciated lower than what my aniversary car was worth!

A member of a local Third gen club I'm a part of has a nice, heavily modded TTA and I think you'd have to pry it from his cold, dead hands. He also owns a nice, clean '92 (IIRC) GTA and a cool '91 Formula with a 383 and Vortec heads. He'll be sitting on a mint in a few years if he ever wants to part with them.

I don't understand it myself. The prices are going up for good condition/rare models but at the same time I see $500-$1000 POS junkers all over the place. But hey I'm not gonna question it, I'm getting ready to sell a good condition 92 B4C to fund my other projects. I'm hoping I can get a good price again, the last 92 B4C I restored and sold went for $7000 in '03/04, and that car wasn't even being advertised for sale.

I think the deal is that once a car bottoms out at $1k or less in the Kelly Blue Book values (or the book of your choice), it becomes "worthless". At that point, it becomes worth more to a particular buyer than the book might suggest. For some reason, Corvettes never seem to bottom out like other cars do. However, other desirable cars seem to follow the Corvette pricing trend. It might also be a case of a car that you couldn't afford in high school/college but always swore you'd own one some day. Now, you have a job and the cars are "cheap" at $7k, even if it's an '89 IROC (and book says $850), you can afford it, so you buy it.

Some of the people advertising on the thirdgen.org board seem to think their 3rd gens are on par with 1st or early 2nd gens. Your '89 Camaro with a 305 TBI is not a "classic"! There was a guy a few months ago trying to sell an ex-Players 1LE that was absolutely ragged to shreds. Basically an undrivable POS, but he wanted several thousand dollars for it.

There was one in the local Auto Trader last year (or maybe two years ago) -- GTA with no motor or transmission, and the guy wanted $4K for it. It was in the Auto Trader for a long time.

Pat

True Pat, there's tons of overpriced "junk" out there. But, we've all seen a "time warp" 3rd gen that looks like it just rolled out of the showroom and has 25k on it that sells for something that seems insane at the time. Those are the top end of the cars I was speaking of. Then, there are the nice driver class of cars that still command good prices (from the right buyer in the right area) and then there's the junk that everyone thinks is worth the same money they saw a 25k mint IROC go for (Probably on the auction show on Speed Channel which already means it was overpriced...assuming they even do cars that new?).

Did you ever sell yours?

No. Hard to sell a car if nobody has ever even showed up to look at it.

Pat

Howdy,



I also think that for a smart buyer, a very well maintained car is worth significantly more than a "normal" car... For instance, our '93 MR2 books for something insane (Just did it... $2195 private, $3281 retail). There's no freaking way I'd sell the car for that, since our car is in excellent condition and has stuff like a new motor, new motor mounts, struts, etc. etc. etc. I.e. anything worn out has been replaced and a car that old has a _lot_ of stuff that has worn out. And any other MR2 that someone has maintained very well is going to be similar.

So, if someone wants a nice 2nd gen MR2, their options are to:
1) Find an average one and semi-restore it.
2) Find a car like mine and pay me for it.
3) Find a car like mine where someone doesn't know what its really worth.

#3 doesn't happen enough to depend on. #1 is what you do the first time. #2 is what you do when you wise up.

Edmunds is totally out to lunch with this... They don't understand the enthusiast market in any way. Realistically, they shouldn't even put a value on cars that are 10+ years old.

Perhaps the same thing is happening with 3rd gens.

Mark

I sold my MR2 for $6400 w/full Estock setup and 4.5 sets of wheels, it was in pretty good condition

The car is on the wrong coast, would not have lasted out West!

I'm potentially working on that.....

The prices for nice third gen camaros and fox stangs are going up at a pretty good pace. Around here nice cars are in the 3-7 range while the beat up high mileage cars are sitting right around the 1500 -2500 range.

kyle

Mmmmm?

Dibs on a co-drive!

Now that's faith....

As coincidence would have it, I will be taking the car in for an insurance appraisal this spring. My current carrier wanted to insure it with a replacement value of $2000. However I have $4950 in just paint, not to mention the powertrain or suspension.

So, it'll be interesting to see what the official value comes in at. I've got somewhere between $15K and $20K spent on the car, so I wonder what it'll insure at? I'll report on it later.

That would be awesome info to know I have my '82 insured for 10K through Hagerty, BUT really should get an apprasial done....

Sounds really nice. Have any pics?

That car is beautiful.....really beautiful. I saw it at the Memphis F-body event in 2005 and words and photos don't do it justice.

Yeah, I'm getting to the point I really think about driving our 92 B4C to work every day. About once a month I pass a wreck that looks like someone did something really stoopid that took out another car. Our B4C, in all it's un-restored glory would be totalled with just a bent fender. I'm sure it is now worth twice what we paid for it 4 years ago, at least.

I can't imagine how Costas gets in Miss B4C every day. That car is NICE!

I got to see my 72 T/A go from a $2700 muscle car to something I sold for a down payment for a home in 10 years. Kinda wished I still had it, though, it was a LOT of fun to drive, and I could buy a WHOLE house for what is worth now.

Our 71 T/A went from a (literally) basket case to something I gave away for $8K in 10 years. That, I purpose-built for CP, back in the days you could still drive a full-bodied car in CP. I can't imagine what that car would be like with a set of 12" slicks on it. :-)

Well, she isn't THAT nice, but she is in pretty good shape. The driver's seat finally began ripping pretty good so that will need to get repaired. A few other odds and ends to get done before the season starts up also. Too many cars, too many series', too little time!

Really, she just hates to sit. Honestly! If she sits for several days she gets cantankerous and runs funny (funny peculiar, not funny ha-ha) and such. But, drive her a lot and 'exercise' her once she is warmed and she just wants more. Feed her a few imports a month (there is an evo that lives around the corner and we come home about the same time for lunch frequently and even with his big bling brembo's he STILL won't go deep into the corner taking the exit off the highway for our neighborhood...and I'm on crappy streets!! No matter who is in front, I'll stay in the gas and pass him because I know he'll puss out...then stand on the middle pedal and say a prayer to 'Binders, God of All That Is RetroRockets' and haul it down and slip thru the corner with a gentle slide. The dude only understands the right pedal and then, only as long as the steering wheel is straight!).

Anyway, I do be as careful as possible because I know I'd get slaughtered by the insurance company if anything happened to her. Strife. Heavy traffic scares me, but I take back roads and try to avoid it as much as possible.

As to the original post, I have noticed the same thing. Looking for a clean 3rd gen is TOUGH and when you find one, the guy knows it and wants a good bit of money for it. <shrug>

Costas
cars and such...

I have 20K just into my suspension and binders. Figure I have closer to 30K into the car not at all including any part of the original purchase price or any kind of service costs(Which I never have ever taken it to anywhere for service)
I have mine insured for replacement value of 22k and it is a daily driver and is actually our "family car" so to speak. Its the closest thing we own to calling it the family 4-door. ps- this family grocery getter pulls 1.07g's on street tires and street alignment and a 60-0 in 102 ft on a tested skid pad.
[A view of the 13x1.25 6 piston binders and custom GW G-body aluminum front hubs that fit under factory IROC rims- 4.5 pound lighter unsprung weight each side than a factory 10.5 inch 1piston floater setup- http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show...752_74_full.jpg ]

I refuse to put a heavy V8 into it because I built it to be a daily driver and not another garage queen- and it handles so unbelieveably amazingly with the lightweight nose V6- You would not understand unless you drive it just how superior this car responds- everyone just knocks the V6 and underestimates it. It has a 60*V6 2.8 and has turned a pathtic (but fast for a 2.8) 15.9sec 1/4 (stock is mid 17 to low 18 range) and it is a custom built auto car with a very lightweight exotic drivetrain that I have also dropped from 3.42's down to 3.23 for better road gearing for daily use and higher speed cruising. This car is fun, fun, fun. (ps- My baby is my '68 327 Vette with 540 rwhp- but I perfer to steal this car from my wife occationally.) You guys that know Calif Speedway- I have turned a 2:09 sec lap on the road course with this slow "V6 and street tires" and ful creature comfort interior weight (AC and all)- I hurt bigtime on the straightaways, but carry and make up big time in the braking and cornering zones.

All and all, what do you get brand new anymore for $20-30k off the showroom floor? Nothing special. If this car were stolen I would have a hell of a time replacing it with something of unique value that is not going to give my wife that stamped out typical minivan mom look.

Have you ever considered a 2.8 to 3.4 swap? I think you would be more than pleased with the results. I did it on a 86 4x4 S10 Blazer. Unbelievable the difference. It's like going from a smallblock to a bigblock. It was a fun, inexpensive swap that was pretty simple too.

*edit*
Nevermind, I just looked at your cardomain site. Nice! I like it!

Its getting there. the 3.4 (now 3.5) block is actually still stiling down at a machinst buddies shop finished
I just have so many other much more important priorities like a major master bedroom/master bathroom teardown and remodel that I have "solely" been doing for the past 14 months in my spare time. time and money has been tight because of this project.

Did you ever put together a parts list for that brake system? I followed it for a while on the 3rd Gen site, but kind of lost track. I thought that would be nice for the CP car.

Yes I did, I gave the complete rundown on parts, bracket demensions I had machined, my offset specs and calculations if you used other rims, etc as well as the offset of the aluminum custom G-body roadrace hubs Doug at Global West had still on CAD file and mocked up a set for me that fit my F-body dimesions I needed.
All that info is on TGO somewhere I believe under a "Wilwood" search of the brake forum.
The package started out life as the 4th gen big brake srp kit that I finagaled(sp?)wilwood into swaping a few parts like the radial brackets for another better offset and spead choice for my spindle mounting. Most everything else was custom made like lined, brackets, hardware with safetywire provisions, hubcentric spacers for use of IROC "rears" on all 4 corners so I can rotate tires without dismounting fronts to rears rims. All this info is on TGO is 3 different posts documenting the build front and rear- tells what pads I have tried for balance and/or pedal feel, my mastercylinder and combo valves choice. Sorry, way too much to research and list here again- I don't retain that detail stuff off the top of my head- too many other car and various other projects to remeber specific details from a few years ago but its all there on TGO somewhere.

ps TGO sucks now. Money grubbing owners and nazi moderators, no more nitty gitty hardcore helping others for the love of cars crap- everything is muttered up with advetisement dollars and I think most of the good people are gone or just not as interested in the same old everyday bs rookie topics.

And back to the topic of this post- The same reason why 2nd gens are more valueable than 3rd gens, and so on. Age represents value (for the most part) However, my car will never greeatly amount to any nominal resale value due to it being an unpopular V6. Why a V6? Because I like having something unique and love skeptical people asking why, I then give them a ride and they come out smiling with a whole new perspective- I like drivng something that is marked an underdog and the challange of making that respectable- I feel I have done that so far very well to date- and still more to come- I built this car knowing I will NEVER sell it, so what its worth resale wise is not of importance. Most people build garage queens simular to the extent I built this car and drive other normal off the lot cookie cutter commuter cars- I too have those garage queens and this is my version of a daily driver commuter car: only its a non cookie cutter version. I screw with everything I own- it hads to have personallity and not be identical to anything else anyone else has. Thats why even my slow car is built. Now you know "why a V6" in case this crossed anyones mind. I actually only drive this car maybe 3-4 times a month at most, wife drives it daily- she loves it. But when I do steal it for a little run here or there, Iit is actually the most fun car I have even though it is the slowest by far. this car feels like a damn jetfighter in response imputs and the g's get my blood going- for a big car it drives like my mini cooper in size feeling- light and limber. trust me, build a V6.

It really does. I only go over there now, to be an arse-hole when someone like Kandied tries to post more of his BS.

Good to see you are still around Dean. I need to make my way down that way one of these days.

If you ever make it down be sure and contact me first so I can be availiable.

I am actually taking a quick break right now. I tore apart (gutted all but the dash) the Camaro's interior today and am redoing it- including new Momo seats. She was getting worse for wear.
17 years old and seen better days since its a daily driver & kid hauler. With my daughter @ 14 now, I figure I HOPEFULLY won't find anymore chewing gum surprises in the future.

Are you just cleaning, or replacing stuff (other than the seats)? If so, where are you getting parts?

I am actualy taking a break this whole year. I'm not doing any racing, and not doing anything to the car this year. I'm taking all of the money, and going to Africa. I probably won't be down there this summer, since I'll be in Africa from Mid June thru July, and that is really taking up all my spare money. Maybe next winter, or spring of 08. I want to get down to Seca with the Audi guys one of these day's too.

A little of both. Most of my plastic is in great shape. I purchased new upper door plastics with rubber window trim since one of mine is cracked. I bought things through Modern Day Muscle, Hawks, LTB Motorsports, TPI Parts, Summit, & Jegs.

Dynamat Extreme sound deading in the passsenger compartment so far. I have more on backorder and will be here Tuesday for the thin roof sections, door skins, and cargo sheet panel areas. This car has been built for intended sporty but creature comfort daily driving. I do not mind a little added sprung weight for sound deading of road noise, gear noise, and overall vibrations through the unibody.
Dynamat pic: http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show...52_117_full.jpg

New ACC deluxe 80/20 loop carpet- Fits very nicely. Cleaned seatbelts and am currently in process of cleaning all the interior ABS plastic panel pieces and refitting. After the main body section is finished, I will strip the doors and replace those panels also- I have brand new upper door rail plastics and a few interior goodies I bought from a few various places (Modern Day Muscle, Hawks, etc) like upper headliner seatbelt plastic guides, dome light plastic, center console pad, pedal pads, the ALDL cap, etc. Most other stuff is still in very good shape and is cleaning very nicely
Carpet pic (note I had to overlay the old onto the new for a few center cutouts, I have old padding lint all over the new stuff and needs to be vacuumed): http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show...52_118_full.jpg

I still have to finish the headliner, door panels, I need to price out rear seat upholstery to match the Momos, install dual gate shifter with custom console plate I need to make still (getting rid of that detent button) and have a cool pistol grip Hurst knob (Black with white Hurst- matches the horn button and gives what I feel is a custom billet factory look. The steering wheel has a black billt horn button with a white Chev bowtie engraved)
http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show...52_108_full.jpg

http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show...52_107_full.jpg

http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show...52_111_full.jpg

http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show...52_104_full.jpg

So the dash is in good shape? I replaced the much-cracked dash pad on our 92 with a much better one, but in the last month, it too is sprouting similar cracks the old one had. I'm wondering if one made from aluminum would be a nice replacement. Damn, I hate cracked dash pads.

Sorry to hijack, but the reason the 3rd Gens are getting so expen$ive is that examples with uncracked dash pads are getting to be a rare comodity!

Dash is actually perfect and original. This car has always been garaged even though it has been driven daily. My wife has been a "stay at home mom" for the last 14 years so it does not sit out in the sun long days. It is generally out and about or shopping runs, and then tucked back into the shaded garage . My paint is finally wearing thin though, the paint shop is next on the agenda- it lasted 19 years and just wore through on the hood two months ago- the spot is getting larger every time I wash it. I have a factory fiberglass hood going onto it before paint- that and the lightweight factory alum bumper support.

I put the seats in for a test fit and at the lowest setting these damn Sparco/Camaro slider brackets that are so called designed for my car are sitting the MOMO seats about 2" too high. Tomorrow I will disasemble them, cut and reweld the sliders directly to the floor brackets and remove the tall adapter bracketry- Everything was going smoothly until this snag.

http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show...52_119_full.jpg

Edit: 12/31 Lower front section is finished. Waiting on Dynamat order this week so I can finish the headliner install, cargo carpet, and doorpanel install. I am very pleased with the looks so far. The new seats match the factory rears very well and the new carpet a nice fit.

http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show...52_123_full.jpg

http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show...52_124_full.jpg

I was able to get the factory seat belt through these seats- First I know of it being done with factory belts looping "through" custom seats

http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show...52_125_full.jpg

Then after the headliner and doors, I will start fabbing the a shifter console plate for the Hurst Dual gate Ratchet shifter. I only want the ratchet side visable and the new plate I will custom make will block the shifter from going down the standard use side.

http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show...52_122_full.jpg