It was a challenge, but it's actually going to work just fine in the end.



This didn't turn out to be a drop in unit. I measured it all, but I apparently can't use a ruler. It needed to be about 1/2" less wide and/or 1/2" less tall. However, we got it in there.



It's been fun, but it's been a ton of work. And pretty is over rated..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif)

Anyway, the radiator is installed, the power steering cooler is installed. I could go make up AN lines and make this thing run tonight, but I'll not get the Accusump in it in time. And, since we have a tuning issue, I'm not going to push it. I'm going to go to Nashville without my car. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif)

Anyway, the radiator was a snug fit, but some work with a hammer made it all work out. It took a "bunch" of banging to get it all in there, but it's in there. It even looks like it wasn't too much work (by the look of the final result).

In the short term, I hung the power steering cooler on the front of the radiator. I don't like doing that, but I figure I have enough radiator at this point that I should be able to get away with it for a while.

The fitting did clear the power steering, but it was tight (and this car has no AC). And the drivers side fan is rubbing the tank (we've not run the fan that way, but we saw it). I'm going to make a spacer for the top and set it back until it clears. That should take care of that (I hope).

<sorry for the hijack Kevin>

Gene,
You likely have another problem. These cars were run in Texas all their life with donut-smackin, fried-chicken-finger-licken boys behind the wheel and I guarantee they never turned off the AC. Check that your system is holding good pressure (cap? pinhole?) and make sure no debris (I find plastic grocery bags really LIKE to get sucked into mine) got sucked into the cavity and is blocking the condensor/radiator. It is easy to undo the top of the radiator and lean it back and use an airchuck to blow all the crap back outta the front of the condensor. Maybe weak water pump?

Miss B4C does fine (had an issue with a pinhole leak in the t/b coolant hose that NEVER made a drip to the ground but kept temps warmer than normal especially as you describe) and b4c2 will get the ac charged here pretty quick. Matt said he had to charge it every year or so. I'll likely be doing a compressor on it soon (happy joy fun).

<unhijack>

Got the wheel today Kevin, thanks!!!

Costas
cars and such...

Nice program (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ..

have you blast time at AV8SS Open Track on your Teal Camaro? Beat Corvette #5?

<Sorry, hijacked again>

I've checked all that. In fact, the car ran significantly cooler after replacing the radiator, (although it wasn't a factory B4C radiator, they aren't available any more), and, iirc, one of the cooling fans. The car runs about 160 most of the time, except when sitting in traffic, when it can go north of 220 deg. Once we get going again, it cools back down albeit slowly. Unlike our 9C1 and Impala SS, though, there is NO way the thing will just sit there at idle with the a/c going and not overheat. Cap has been tested, thermostat has been replaced, hoses have been replaced and everything. The car runs great, and other than just that little issue of running warm in traffic, it is still a blast to drive.

Back to your regularly-scheduled conversation about 92 Camaros.



This post has been edited by CrashTestDummy: Jul 8 2007, 07:06 PM

Hey Dusty, it was great to meet you and your girl friend (Mitzi, wasn't it? I'm terrible with names)!!! I'm glad you made it out to the track to visit.

I did get the car out for two sessions. I'd be getting ahead of myself if I give the update here. When we left this thread, the car had no oil cooler lines and I was leaving it at home.

I was up until 2am on Thursday night making 10AN lines for the oil cooler and remote filter. I put them all together and found that the Moroso oil line adaptor was leaking at the block. I tightened it down, it still leaked, snugged it more, still leaked, etc. Moroso didn't send torque specs and I wasn't sure how much I could lean on the bolts. I snugged it a final time and decided that it was too late to fire up the car again and I went to bed.

At 6:30 AM my phone rang. It was Brad (Brad and Liz post as 4manracing here on frrax) asking if I needed the trailer and saying that he'd drive 30 miles to drop it off if I did. While he was here, I started the car and he said that it was no longer leaking. I checked and he was right. I set the car down and started packing the garage (which was a complete disaster and all landed in boxes in utter disarray). We got rolling about 11 am and made the track at 6:30 or so.

I'll try to get some pics of the plumbing and add them to this thread soon.

I'm off to get dinner, my wife is staring at me and waiting on me to put the laptop down and get some food.

I'll finish up later.

Anyway. I installed the hose to the mechanical oil pressure gauge on Friday night. The line really didn't reach the remote oil filter location very well, but we hooked it up. On Saturday morning, I had to go install an ignition box into the Darkhorse Racing Mustang and left Garrett to move the oil pressure fitting to the input side of the block adaptor for me.

We learned that we lose 4 psi of oil pressure through the filter, cooler and lines. It went from 62 psi at idle to 58. It also went to almost 90 psi with a blip of the throttle. This told us that the stock gauge is worthless. It shows about 50 psi all the time. 45 on the low end and about 56 on the high end. The autometer shows 58 at idle and almost 90 with RPM. We also got the oil temp gauge working. I hooked it up late and swapped two of the connectors. That gave us oil temp (which was useful). I had also hooked up a mechanical water temp gauge. It proved that the stock 3rd gen gauges are worthless. The 3rd gen gauge showed "160-ish", "220-ish" and "240-ish". The autometer showed 140-242 in actual operation. When the autometer was showing 230+, the stock gauge was still at 220. It seems to be a 3 position gauge in the factory cluster and it is about as useful as the oil pressure gauge.

Anyway, the car was running 242 degrees on track but would cool off as soon as I dropped back for a lap or so. So, the radiator is getting air, but not enough. The oil temps (pre cooler) were pegged at 300 degrees. I don't have a fitting to allow me to take a temp after the cooler, but I probably will soon. We removed the thermostat (as recommended to me by Afco racing who built the radiator) and the car took longer to get hot, but it still got hot. I think we made it through most of a 20 minute session before it got too hot, however, we were not running 20 minute sessions, we were running 30 minute sessions. That seemed to be the problem. I guess I need to get rid of the cross over exhaust, get the pipe out from under the pan and get some air flow ducted in so that the radiator gets good airflow.

The car handled well for being on street tires and I'm not going to mess with the suspension for now. I think I'll leave that as is until I get the rest of it sorted out. It was quite neutral and had no problems running on the banking. It was even perfectly stable running into the brake zone at the end of the super speedway portion of the track. I was braking from 122 to about 25-30 mph and the car worked great.

So, I have a lot of work to do, but we learned a lot as well. Back to the garage....

When I first installed the new engine, oil pressure was lower than I liked. It turns out that the Mobil1 filter was causing most of the restriction. Swapping it out to a WIX or Fram racing filter gave back most of the pressure. I now run a CM remote filter with -12AN lines.

Ok, here are the promised pics of my plumbing disaster. It's getting crowded under this engine, that's for sure. I'll probably change some of this as I get time and get the engine out where I can access some of the other ports better.

The power steering caused me to get a bit creative, but I got it hooked up (I hate to use 180 hose ends).

I originally just had 2 90 degree hose ends on there. We then added a fitting for a mechanical oil pressure gauge.

Then, I added a T fitting to give me a place to port the 3 quart accusump into the system. Now it's starting to get crowded down there. And, no, I'm not happy with this, but I'll try it for now and change it as soon as I find a better way.

Then, I ran over and through the firewall with the accusump line. I don't like having it inside, and I wasn't happy with it outside (no real room under the hood). So, for now I'm putting it inside, though I've not mounted it yet. Here's where we run through the firewall.

Anyway, that's the latest on this project. I also think the power steering pressure hose is leaking. I don't think it's oil under the car (I thought I had a leak), I think it's PS fluid that I'm seeing. It wasn't boiling or anything, but I think the old hose is getting tired.

Today, the dyno:

Our local F-body group had a dyno day and I decided to drive it down and see what I'd learn on the rollers.

I learned a lot. The first pull was 18.1:1 on the dyno wide band from 2,500 to 5,000 rpm. Then, it started to come into line with where it should be (or at least closer). Axoid grabbed a laptop and my prom and we decided to add fuel. However, the VE (Volumetric Effeciency) tables on this car are pretty close to maxed and they won't take a number greater than 100%, so Bill (Axoid) suggested that we lie about the injector size. Sounds good to me, we need fuel. So, we adjusted the injector size from 23.8 lb hr to 22 lb hr, burned a prom and tossed it back in the car. Poof, the AFR was a little fat down low, and decent through the mid and upper range (and was no longer 18:1).

The first pull showed 298 hp and 324 ft lbs, even being that lean.

The second pull showed about the same HP and more torque (299.03 hp/338.62 ft lbs).

The third pull showed a final of 299.62 hp and 338.71 ft lbs.

For reference, my 2002 Z28 with 5,600 miles on it (on a portable chassis dyno) made 299 hp and 317.4 ft lbs.

This was odd to me since most dyno runs I've seen will run ok on the first, better on the second and drop on the third due to heat soak. I'm not complaining, so we'll go with it.

One oddity I noticed is that he was shutting down at the shift light (autometer set at 6,400 rpm). The dyno sheet shops at 5,800? Now, the stock tach is wrong, it shows about 7,000 at the shift light and the dyno shows 5,800? I'm a bit puzzled how we only got dyno numbers to 5,800...unless 5,800 is really 6,400 and the dyno tach is off. If so, none of the numbers are any good. So, I really don't know why it is what it is, but it's what I've got. They also had issues with the dyno and the 4,000 to 4,500 rpm band. It just vanished on two of my pulls. Not sure why, but it's gone without a trace (that was bad, really bad.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif) ). This was an in-ground dynojet (AWD Dynojet actually) and they said it seems to read 20 hp lower than the portable/trailer style dynojets in the area. Odd.

The engine specs are:

350 Chevy .020 over (353) (0 decked with splayed main caps, ARP studs, lunati "street race" rods and KB pistons)
Balanced rotating assembly
10.6:1 compression
ZZ4 cylinder heads with Manley Race Flo under cut valves and K-motion springs (Skim cut to make sure they were true)
Comp 305 cam (220/230 .510/.510 114 deg)
1.5 Comp Pro Magnum roller rockers
SLP headers and dual cat Y pipe (no cats)
SLP "two on the left" cat back
Underdrive pulleys
Holley Stealth Ram intake
52mm throttle body
MSD Pro Billet "drop in" (dual connector) distributor
Fludamper "Street Damper"

I think that's all the important bits. It's nothing radical, but it made decent power for using such small heads (they flow about 208 cfm at .550 lift). Next up, more heads, more cam and long tubes.....

Here's the sheet.

Did you have to do anything to the engine besides tuning, between Nashville and the dyno? (just curious...)

Nope, nothing at all. When I started it to put it on the trailer, it ran perfect. So, I guess it was just moody??? At least I didn't hurt it.

It seems suspicious that you actually made it through a track day at 18:1. Are you sure there isn't a leak in the exhaust system somewhere upstream of the wideband?

I was wondering that exact same thing. And, I was thinking that I do hear a slight leak (I think). However, my wideband in the car wasn't showing it that lean and it's still not showing it to be real fat. So, I am thinking that the wideband from the dyno was off, but I'm thinking that the car is closer to 12.7:1 than 14.7:1 with the current settings and I'm content to leave it on the rich side of stoich. I think it's a bit safer. I was wondering how I could have made it through a track day that lean, and my wideband in the car wasn't showing it, so I'm thinking that it didn't happen, at least not that lean.

Trackbird,
Your 92 sounds similar to my 89. I am tyrying to figure out what class it will fit in. It's a 355, Brodix heads, Jesel rockers, roller cam, h-beams, but stock block and crank. The CMC deal looked good until I got the the 305 section. I don't have any track time yet(read no NASA/SCCA licenses), and it will be next year before the car is done. AI/AIX looks like the spot for this car, but I am limited(kid in college)on budget. You mentioned autocross. Is there much in Ohio, more specifically, Columbus, where I can race when it's done. I would love to beat the blue oval guys in AI.....

The OVR region of SCCA is pretty active (I guess you would have to be in CP at least) Their website: http://www.ovr-scca.org/index.asp If you do not pre-register get there early (7am) as the walkup registrations go quick.

Welcome, sounds like a very nice toy. AI/AIX or AV8SS are probably where you'll wind up. However, being in college, I'd wait a bit. It's tough to race on a student budget, but if you can pull it off, have at it!!! Or, open track it until it's done and until your ready to run a series. That's what I'm going to do until the cage goes in.

If you're in the Columbus area, you should drop by one of these nights. We've been in the garage a lot lately (possibly an understatement).



That might be an understatement. We often get 200+ cars at our events. Bring it out and run CP. Heck, I ran CP on all season street rubber at the last event (I needed to shake the car down, and I found leaking axle seals).

Actually, my daughter is in college. PM me, I would like to watch an autocross event. I am starting the SFC's this week, and I would like to start on the cage in the next week or two. It's killing me 'cause all the steel and cage parts are in the garage, I just don't have time. I am rebuilding a 700r4 for a friend of mine, so I can't make to much dust until it's done. I am in Grove City, so let me know. It's always cool to hang out with another car guy.....

I looked at AV8SS a little last night. Does that series come Ohio? My car may fit there as well. If not, sounds like I will have plenty of chances to break parts in Autocross/AI....

I just clicked the link the the OVR SCCA page. Very Cool!!! I had no clue there were Autocross events in Columbus. I see they are at National Trails several times, and being a longtime drag racer(be around it 35+ years) I can't figure out where they would run out there....

Thanks for the info and PM me. We should get together and compare notes.......

Ahh, the (kid in college) part made me think that was you and not that you had one. Makes sense to me.

I've rebuilt a few (11?) 700-R4's. Been there, done that, don't envy you.

AV8SS does not come to Ohio, but if you want to travel a bit, they run all over the eastern half of the US.

I'm in Galloway, so we're not too far apart.



I've never run an event at National Trails (I did make one drag pass there in my 2002 Z28 when it was new) and I am not driving that far for an event, so I'll be absent from the next one. I may start tearing the car back down. I'm looking to sell the exhaust, headers, cam, heads and injectors and replace them with some upgraded toys. I can't decide if I should just tear it down now, or wait a bit and drive it some more. Otherwise, I might run more CP (on street tires) this year....just for fun.

Sending PM.

The next autocross is this weekend at trails. I'll be there.