I was thinking about this thread a little on the way home from work, and does it ever make me feel OLD. It doesn't seem that long ago that I was 18 and looking for my first Camaro. Now I have kids and they will be looking for cars in a few years. I've even caught myself considering buying cars that I would never have considered as a teen or twenty something. It must be some kind of a sleeper virus that's activated when you turn 40.

...must fight...don't buy old people cars...buy another Camaro...minivans eat your soul...two door is enough...there is no such thing as too much power...

Anyway, just wanted to thank you guys for reminding me how much I really do like cool cars. Even if I'm not 18 anymore.

I don't know whether or not your son has the ability/self control to handle the car as a DD. But I'd look into insurance first. In NJ an 18yr old male in a V8 Camaro would be prohibitively expensive to insure, especially full coverage. That alone might be enough to end the conversation or at least seriously reconsider.

Chris

My parents made me a deal that the car would be insured under their name as long as my grades stay up and I don't get any tickets. Once grades dropped or I got a ticket, they said I would have to pay the bill and if I couldn't the car would be sold. The following quarter I got a 3.9 GPA as apposed to my previous 3.4 GPA's so it worked in more way then one. Just another thing to consider.

This post has been edited by Racing Geek: Jan 27 2010, 03:12 AM

I think that it was mentioned that the 18yo will be paying insurance. If he can afford it...

Since it seems to ne nostalgia time, allow me to reminisce. It ws 1992, and I got my license at 15 (yeah, driving age was 15 and drinking age was 18 - I love Louisiana!). Drove an 89 Grand Am for 4 months, until I threw a rod through the block.

Parents bought me a 1966 Mustang with the I6 for $4000. That engine let go after 3 months, and we put in a 225hp 289. Before we sold it 3 years later, I had racked up 4 speeding tickets and 1 failure to maintain control. I raced friends on the street and did burnouts constantly.

Sold the Mustang and got a 95 Camaro (with the 3400 V6). Took that car to Univ of Texas. Racked up another 3 speeding tickets in TX, 2 in Alabama, 1 in FL, 2 in MS and another 2 in LA. Luckily, no one talked to each other, and I always kept my license. I'd be on Hwy 2222 just west of Austin, going 117mph, with 4 people in the car, hitting the e-brake to spin it on a deserted 7-lane hwy.

Traded that for a 2000 Firebird Convertible with the 3800 V6. Caught the autox bug and had to trade it in after only 2 years. Only got 2 speeding tickets in this one.

Bought the 2000 Trans Am WS-6 that I still have as a racecar. Never got a ticket. Got to top speed once, and that was it. Raced it only on autox days.

Bought a 2006 Saturn Ion when I stripped the Trans Am of it's interior. Sped the crap out of that little thing. Never got caught, but I was always winding it up.

Now I have the G8GT. Rarely speed in it. Spin the tires every now and then, but not often.

My point is this - the more powerful and performance-oriented the car, the less I abuse that power. When I had that little Saturn, I felt like I had to redline the thing to get any decent speed. But, just knowing that I can blow most cars away with my G8 makes me not worry about it.

I'm still the fly in the ointment. I wouldn't give a shit if he was a choir boy. He wouldn't be in a muscle car. Most of the guys that had muscle cars when I was in HS had parents that did not know cars. My dad was a Chevy parts manager and he did. He gave me permission to build a race car, but would not even consider letting me buy a performance car while I was under his roof. We all know cars, and listen to the confessions we're making. Some of us are probably damn lucky to be here, I know I am. I ordered new a '73 Vega GT, (I still have it), and that's what got me autocrossing. I ran the crap out of that car, and figured if I couldn't out accelerate my friends I could out handle them. So I went the springs, sway bars, shocks, tires route. But when I think of the way I drove, I cringe. He will run that car damn hard, and we all know it. I have very strong feelings on this subject, and since you asked, I answered.

I don't love the idea either, hence my post. I know what I did in these cars back when these cars were slower...

Holy flashback, Batman ... I too was the proud owner of a Vega GT, only mine was a 72 model. It was a head gasket eating machine!
Your signature now makes much more sense.

Had an opportunity to trade it in on a 76 Cosworth Vega. It was one ugly orange car with orange hounds tooth interior. Another opportunity missed (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif)

Since I know both Rpoz-29 and Mitchntx, I think you both would get along very well! Just my .02 But serriously, thanks for all the comments guys. I'm going to try and put a stop to the madness and put him back in the POS stock civic 4 dr for at least another year... If I can... I know how I was at 18.

This post has been edited by Beach Cruiser: Jan 27 2010, 02:01 PM

If he's got a nitrous kit on a honda, it's obviously in his blood. There's no stopping it. You might as well try to teach him while you still can.

Since we are swapping stories -

My first car was a 1996 Camaro V6 automatic. I street raced it, pegged the limiter as often as possible while trying to see what the top speed was on the interstate, back road shenanigans (including some off road excursions), burnouts, spins, etc. Went through one transmission a year (I liked to manual shift it) and got rid of it when I was 22 for my '01 due to the fact that the 1996 was falling apart.

As soon as I opened up the '01 for the first time, I realized it was a whole different can of worms and picked up autocrossing to learn some car control. Now that I've been doing that for a few years, I'm mellow on the street and save my aggression for the parking lots. In addition, I agree with 00 Trans Ams comments - after swapping the LS3 in last winter, I have no desire to drive that aggressively on the street.

At the end of the day, he is going to be able to get into trouble with just about anything - Accord or Camaro. Its just going to come down with if you think he is mature enough to handle the Camaro.

As for the FWD v. RWD being safer, I've always felt safer and more comfortable with RWD cars. I'm sure that is mostly due to fact that I have never owned or extensively driven a FWD car, but FWDs always feel "backwards" to me.

A key point is how well you know your son. There's just as much potential for irresponsibility in many grown adults as there are in many teens. The bulk of DUI offenders and road ragers are adults. Only you can determine if your son has the maturity to act responsibly in a car whether it's a muscle car, a modded Honda, or a minivan.

Both my sons were taught to drive all of our cars from our Dakota to my track prepped Z-28. We made sure they understood the differences in the power and handling of various cars. We made sure that neither of our sons saw our performance cars as "forbidden fruit". Both boys accompanied me to autox and HPDE events for several years before being old enough to get a driver's license. Both learned about the physics and consequences of speed by spectating at those events.

My oldest son received my '98 Neon ACR as his first car. My younger son son started with a'93 Integra (which we upgraded both for power and handling). Neither boy has ever had an accident and neither have any tickets for speeding or careless driving. They are now 24 and 22 respectively. My point is that what matters most are the attitudes and mind set of the driver, not the relative power of the car. We've had friends whose kids have wrecked commuter cars and minivans through carelessness and and misplaced bravado. The peroformance that mattered was the driver's, not the car.

Sounds like your son has a serious interest in performance cars and has already had some introduction to performance driving. Seems to me it's a matter of how much you know about your son and his attitudes. You are the best one to assess his maturity and judgment. If you haven't already done so, sit down and discuss your concerns with him.

as a side note, both my sons have told me that my Camaro is evil in the wet compared to their FWD cars. My own experience coincides with theirs. I would much rather commute in snow in a Civic than in my Z-28.

As the saga unfolds, They (mom and grandpa) are going to let him get the Z-28 despite my lobby. I only have the power of suggestion as he lives with his mom and Grandpa has all the money (he owns outright one of the biggest Honda stores on the East Coast). One concession I was able to pull was that there will be a GPS monitor installed in the car that will tell me/her where he's been, and how fast the car was moving. We will get Text messages of violations and can log on the web at any time and look at the history. Think of it as a big brother governer. The Honda was a Death Trap, and I"m actually glad to get him out of it. Proud of him for building it all by himself, but never felt right him driving it as a DD. Thanks again for all the Insight.

I'm 19. drove a 93 z28 as a first car for a month before i got hit (i was stopped at a light sitting still) and it was totaled. then i got my 00' trans am. i've raced a few people and done some stupid things, but never anything life threatening or seriously idiotic. i've calmed down a LOT in the short time i've had it. never gotten a ticket in it either.

i feel that i'm a lot more responsible than most people my age, but i think it has a lot to do with the fact that i payed for it myself and have to pay for insurance. i've also modded it myself and know exactly what it can do. i have nothing to prove to the kids who get m3's, is-f's, and sti's as first cars in my town and pay nothing for them. they have no respect for their cars and what they are. i mod/maintain my car myself and have pride in it, so i'm not going to do anything that may result in serious damage to it or loss of my license.

i really don't think most people my age should have fast cars, but there are some that can handle it.

He's 18 Miles.

Treat him like a kid and he'll most likely act like one.

You know Mitch, that's probably the most intellegent thing that's been said in this whole thread.

Yes it is. It's not me that treats him like a kid, it's his mom. I thought all the comments in this post had merit and intellect compared to what I got over at LS1.com

Kevin, Any chance you have any Frrax stickers? I need a new one or two.

The fact is that any car is dangerous in irresponsible hands. Yes, an LS1 F-body is more .44 Magnum than I don't know... a Miata? But the fact is that .22 caliber Miata can still kill and whichever weapon is being used there is no substitute for knowing how to control it and be responsible for it.

We know that an F-body is much faster, and with stock shocks, etc can be sketchy to drive at the limit. So can any other car with lousy shocks.

You've had him in go-karts and doing some autocrossing. Is he a maniac? Does he want to drift everywhere? Sounds like he does not, which would make me think he's a more mature 18 than punk kid 18. Ultimately none of us know him, you do. Of course he's your kid so you are probably biased--so pretend he's not your kid but your neighbor's and see what you think then.

I can't say I still don't do things that I shouldn't from time to time.... In fact now I'm probably more aggressive on the road then I was when I was younger because I'm much more confident in my abilities--and I was never insane as a kid.

As the say goes YMMV. A young 30 could be way more trouble than an 18 year old with a functioning brain and some car control skills and knowledge of what happens at the edge.

I still have a few... Which reminds me, someone else needed a couple and I forgot about it. Hmm... Better dig that up too (it's been a while on that one). Let me check my inventory and get back to you (or send me a PM so I don't forget).

I've thought this through a couple of times. The only real comparison I have is with firearms. Both Matthew and Patrick had shot every gun I owned by the time they were 12 or 13. I don't have anything really special, (except maybe my great-grandfather's LC Smith.), but they fired everything from a .22 Browning Buckmark, a .30 M-1, to a .50 Hawken. A friend of mine questioned my intelligence regarding my decision, and I responded that I felt like I had taken the "mystery" away from the guns. I talked to them in a "man to man" manner outlining my expectations, and the consequences of not following them. There would be no poking around while I was at work, the guns weren't hidden, and the boys knew what they were capable of. No amount of peer pressure would convince them to take them out of the cabinet, (I didn't have a safe then), unless I was home. The same principal could be applied to your son and the Camaro. Outline your expectations, and ask him not to dissapoint you, and from what you've said, he should be fine. Let him read this post. If nothing else, it shows a genuine concern for his well-being from a bunch of folks that don't even know him. And ask him not to dissapoint us either.

This post has been edited by rpoz-29: Jan 30 2010, 01:52 PM