Need input on garage layout Options

[vanwyk4257]

Well, I received the blessing from my wife last weekend to go ahead and build a garage out back (it might have helped that I have two F-bodies in the garage at the moment and she's parking outside (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) ) so I am trying to work out the details on design, size, layout et al.

I am thinking of doing a 24x30 with 12'foot walls to allow me enough height to install a 2 or 4-post lift down the road.

My thought is to put a 16x8 overhead door off to one side of the 30ft. wall which will face the house and then have a 3ft. steel service/entry door as well.

I want to have room to park two cars inside and still have a decent workshop space for working on engines, etc.

I do plan to insulate the entire building and will be running natural gas and electricity (110V only most likely) to it. Heat will be from a 90%+ efficiency furnace, i.e., forced air (my dad's in the business so I can get one cheap).
I also plan to finish the interior walls and ceiling with OSB as opposed to drywall just because it will be easier to live with, i.e., I can bang into it with tools, parts etc. without doing any real damage, and if I do manage to punch a hole in a sheet it will be easier to replace. Finally, I am anticipating putting a loft area in the trusses for storage with a pull-down ladder.

I am looking or any input with regard to the size (I know you can never build too large) based on the aforementioned parameters, will it be large enough?

Also, I would welcome any advice or input with regard to layout etc.

Thanks in advance for the input guys!

[zlexiss]

Get a 220v feed if possible. Air compressors, welders, metalworking lathes/mills, all will be happier down the line.

[cccbock]

Get a 220v feed if possible. Air compressors, welders, metalworking lathes/mills, all will be happier down the line.

Well, you said it yourself....build it as big as you can. If necessary I would recommend sacrificing some garage goodies in lieu of size if it is a budget problem. You can get the goodies later. My garage is 36 x 45, and I grew out of it in 4 years. Also depends if you plan to stay put in your location for awhile, and how many cars you have to park in there. 36 wide is just barely wide enough to put two Fbodies in end to end.

If it were me, I would put in (2) 12 foot overhead doors, one being the entry point for the bay with the lift, the other being a multipurpose bay, or parking bay. I have (2) 12 footers, and a 14 foot wide by 11ft high sliding door on one end of my garage, but your size and utilization may not dictate this. I did this so the structure could house a car on a trailer, small RV, or a boat.

Be careful engineering the overhead doors. Depending on how you do your lift, they will be in the way when they are up. and you will definitely want them up except in the winter.

Consider a couple windows, and/or skylights to allow for natural light.

Suck it up and try to get the 220 volt done. Saves headaches later and gives you flexibility, its not that much more typically when you look at it from the marginal cost standpoint. Plus, when your wife finally kicks you out, you can put AC in there with the furnace and live out there...every mans dream!

Bock (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[vanwyk4257]

Thanks for the input guys. I'll check into 220V, my Dad knows electrical better than I do. As for getting kicked out of the house, I did joke with her that I was going to put in a refrigerator full of beer, a urinal, internet access and satellite TV so that I would never need to leave the garage! LOL!!

[mitchntx]

Opinions ... we all have a different one.

I opted for a single, oversized door instead of 2 individual doors. I didn't want to have to work around the immovable framework that would seperate the 2 doors. Having one single, huge opening gives a lot of flexibility. I installed an 8x18 door and use an opener on it. I also paid extra for a "ceiling hugger" design. That means the door doesn't make a 90* turn, but rather a 45* turn and angles up towards the ceiling. More head room ...

My shop was 24x40 and became too small a year after I moved in. I added another 14' on the back side, giving me 24x54 ... and it's STILL too small.

Think about the prevailing winds in the summer and the winter and place doors and windows appropriately. In Texas, the North wind is a damned cold wind. I have no penetrations on the north side. But I do have garage doors on the west and east side to help ventilate with our SW breeze during the summer months. Also, I planted trees on the west side to provide evening shade to help keep the place cooler. I refuse to install air conditioning in the shop. I'm afraid I'd try and keep it cool! :eek:

Regardless of what your contractor says, overbuild the foundation. Rebar, footings, beams and piers are essential to keep the floor level.

You can never have too much insulation and something easy to clean and never paint for wall covering. I used R panel on the inside and it cleans very easy and never needs paint.

Before the foundation is poured, install a 6" conduit raceway in the foundation. With the price of copper, getting 50A service on the far wall can be damned expensive if you have to chase the perimeter.

Make sure your electric service company will install a separate meter base for the shop. Makes it easier to build to code than retrofitting your home service to accommodate an additional 100A of service.

Pour a pad to park a trailer. Less grass to mow is a bonus.

Electrical service and lighting ... overkill is just about right. Once you've planned for just enough, add 25%. Trust me.

Trusses are your friends ... anything over 10' is potential storage ... deciding on overhead storage access vs floor space is a no brainer ... it's why God made ladders.

Wood looks nice. It's more expensive and requires more maintenance than metal.

[slowTA]

If I ever get the opportunity to build my own garage, I will seriously consider heating the floor. Winter months here leave my friends' floors cold for hours even with the heat on.

Just make sure you mark the floor so you don't drill into the heater when you bolt the lift down.

[Rob Hood]

Consider trailer movement and parking when deciding the garage's location. Also, a floor drain might be a good idea so you can wash the car inside (if need be). Install LOTS of electrical outlets, including several on the wall just above the workbench.

Mitch's comments about location/orientation with respect to weather is very significant. I'm paying for that with a garage door that faces south, and the AZ sun is merciless, even with door insulation and roof vents. Maybe consider installing windows up high that you can open to provide a cross-breeze (might not be that big of a problem in Michigan).

[gopanoz]

A working kitchen sink in the garage has been super handy for cleaning car parts, body parts and not getting that mess inside the house.

Run some air compressor hoses through the walls with air outlets coming out the walls. nice not having to fight a air hose.

Tons of electrical outlets every where. Once again nice not to have to wrestle with a cord.

Is a basement a under the garage possible?

[Mericet]

Somewhere in the planning try and add a separate (small) room for your compressor. That way, it is a little quieter inside the workspace when it kicks on.

[vanwyk4257]

Wow, lots of good ideas, thanks guys!

I can technically only build up to a three car garage according to the bylaws, which is pretty vague, but I don't want to run afoul of the neigborhood either. I will probably figure out how big I can go and push the envelope as much as I dare within my budget. I definitely plan on pouring a pad next to the garage to park my trailer on. I'm not going to bother with a floor drain since I won't need to wash a car in the garage. Running water would be nice, but we're on a well and it would be a pain to run water from the house out to the garage. Frankly if I need to wash parts I'll just run up to the garage on the house where I have running water and a floor drain. A basement under the garage would kill my budget, and probably wouldn't fly here anyway. I do plan on using probably a 6/12 pitch truss so I have some decent loft/storage space for stuff to keep it out of the garage.

This garage will be for car stuff only, the snowblower, lawn tractor et all would all stay in the attached garage on the house.

I do think I will probably do one overhead door, and will probably put in at least one window so I can throw a window air conditioner in if it get's really warm, but for the most part I can just open the overhead door if it gets really warm. For security and just for the neighbor's viewing pleasure I will keep the overhead door, service door and window all on the side of the garage facing my house, it will be easier to keep an eye on that way. I'll probably put a couple of motion detecting lights on the front corners of the garage to deter anybody from snooping around, plus there's a street light close by so the area is pretty well lit as it is. The nice thing is I will be able to drive right from my driveway across a short stretch of lawn to get to the garage so getting in and out will be easy with no real hills to drive up or over.

I may be putting the plan to build on hold however if a piece of property I'm looking at is priced right. It's 4-5 acres and would allow me to build a nice house and a substantially larger garage/shop later on, plus I could plan for all of it right up front at the construction phase so we'll see what happens. I plan on sorting it out one way or the other within the next month or so.

Again, thanks for all the input guys, it is very helpful! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[mitchntx]

I'll probably put a couple of motion detecting lights on the front corners of the garage to deter anybody from snooping around

Translation:

Lights that come on that make it easier for burglars to spot the good stuff. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[vanwyk4257]

I'll probably put a couple of motion detecting lights on the front corners of the garage to deter anybody from snooping around

Translation:

Lights that come on that make it easier for burglars to spot the good stuff. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

You mean the lights that make it easier for me to draw a bead on them with my pistol! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[mitchntx]

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/bigun2.gif)

[Crazy Canuck]

since there was mention of garage door opening, that's 1 thing I made sure was done right when building the house.
here are some pix of it... note that the garage is 12'7" tall and the garage doors are 8' tall.
You can see that i put a commercial grade garage door opener too.
http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?sho...st&p=120475

[v7guy]

I can say that a sink in the garage to clean up before you go inside is a must. Mostly from the perspective that the better half will not evoke her rage upon you when you touch anything after coming in the house.
220 is ideal, at some point you will wish you had it.

[1qwikbird]

Having helped a buddy build his shop (28x32 with 13" interior height) last summer from doing the plans, the block work, the framing everything. Here are a few things to consider:

2x6 framing for the walls, 2x4's at 12' are at the sturctural limit. Plus the larger wall cavity will allow for better insulation.

100 amp service and definitely 220v.

Careful with truss selection, not all trusses are created equal and most generic trusses are not designed to carry the load imposed by a loft. Check into this. The cost of a properly spec'd truss could be more than it would cost to stick frame the roof, because of the small number of trusses you would be ordering? Do your homework.

5/8 inch plywood on the roof deck, even if code allows less. Especially important if using trusses on 24" centers.

1/2 inch ply on the walls if budget allows, otherwise OSB will do.

5-6 inch slab. Lift or no lift. The upfront cost is small compared to a cracked floor a couple years down the road.

As others have suggested, commercial grade door with 8' height. You won't be sorry.

Chris

[cccbock]

I can say that a sink in the garage to clean up before you go inside is a must. Mostly from the perspective that the better half will not evoke her rage upon you when you touch anything after coming in the house.
220 is ideal, at some point you will wish you had it.

Had another thought here.

Around where I live, if you put plumbing into the space you are building it will likely fall into into a different assessment category for tax purposes and permitting. Even a small sink...because it requires water supply, and a drainage system of some type with associated environmental impacts. It might as well be a 1 bedroom home.

My "garage" which has electric lighting, other equipment, and a lift, is only considered to be storage building and is assessed very low. You might want to check with friendly neighborhood tax assessor to see how what you are building will be assessed and what things will make it more vlauable in the eyes of the assessor.

Alot of times you can get your C.O. on a shell building, and then finish the interior later without the knowledge and the associated tax liability of the local tax man.

Just FYI.

Bock

[1qwikbird]

I can say that a sink in the garage to clean up before you go inside is a must. Mostly from the perspective that the better half will not evoke her rage upon you when you touch anything after coming in the house.
220 is ideal, at some point you will wish you had it.

Had another thought here.

Around where I live, if you put plumbing into the space you are building it will likely fall into into a different assessment category for tax purposes and permitting. Even a small sink...because it requires water supply, and a drainage system of some type with associated environmental impacts. It might as well be a 1 bedroom home.

My "garage" which has electric lighting, other equipment, and a lift, is only considered to be storage building and is assessed very low. You might want to check with friendly neighborhood tax assessor to see how what you are building will be assessed and what things will make it more vlauable in the eyes of the assessor.

Alot of times you can get your C.O. on a shell building, and then finish the interior later without the knowledge and the associated tax liability of the local tax man.

Just FYI.

Bock

This is good info and becareful when using the term slop sink, you don't want the locals thinking your dumping all kinds of car related fluids down the drain. I might use the approach of a small bathroom for convience sake, might not be as scary to the inspector. Also when running the electric, throw a couple extra conduits in the hole for phone, cable tv, computer etc. Wireless is good, but hardwire is even better, especially if the physical distance from the house to the shop is large. And when running the wire leave a "dead" run in the conduit just in case you need to fish extra wires in the future, the dead run will make that easier.

Chris

[T.O.Dillinder]

24 x 30 is the size of my garage. It is also 2 stories.
Consider a loft to accomodate extra storage and work space for the smaller stuff.
I have a 9 foot ceiling and have been looking at taking out some of the second floor floor to make room for a hoist.
I have 2 huge work/fab benches with another 4 foot long workbench.
Run a gas line to the garage for heating. Or consider a woodburning stove.
There are now corn cob burners in our neck of the woods for a more eco-friendly heating source.
I am able to fit, and work on three vehicles comfortably.

[vanwyk4257]

24 x 30 is the size of my garage. It is also 2 stories.
Consider a loft to accomodate extra storage and work space for the smaller stuff.
I have a 9 foot ceiling and have been looking at taking out some of the second floor floor to make room for a hoist.
I have 2 huge work/fab benches with another 4 foot long workbench.
Run a gas line to the garage for heating. Or consider a woodburning stove.
There are now corn cob burners in our neck of the woods for a more eco-friendly heating source.
I am able to fit, and work on three vehicles comfortably.

Thanks Todd. I'm thinking I will go 24x32 right now. I have my wife's cousin who is a builder working on getting me a quote right now less concrete/flatwork to see what I will be looking at in terms of materials cost. I will probably have someone set the posts and from there I will just build the garage myself with my father. I will definitely run gas to the garage, I plan on sticking a regular 90+ percent efficiency furnace in the corner with an exterior fresh air intake for the burner so I don't have to worry about fumes or using solvents inside. I figure once the entire building is insulated a furnace like that should heat the place up nice and toasty pretty quick during the winter. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool2.gif)