[SSgt. Carroll]

Well I am new here and I am looking to run at summit point. Really I just want to know where to start.

The main car I am looking to run is a 91 Z28 heres the specs:

-195CC Aluminum heads 5 angle, polished, etc...
-Brand spanking new 350
-LT4 Hot Cam
-Alum. 1.6 Rockers
-3.42 Posi Auburn Rear
-Stock TPI intake
-Poly Bushings
-TDS Wonderbar

I am working on the following:

-8 Point Roll Cage
-Spohn Tubular K-Member and A-Arms
-1-5/16" front sway bars, and 1" Rear.......Would this be ok?
-Aluminum Driveshaft
-T56
-13" Corvette Front brakes
-Y2K C5 5 Spokes
-255 Fronts 275 Rear Undecided on tires..... Any recommedations?
-Wilwood 12.19" rear brakes.... anything out there better?

As for the rest of the suspension I am looking for more suggestions.

I also have a 98 Z51 thats holds the garage floor down and a 91 RS which is my daily driver.

As for summit point where do I start? Who do I contact? etc.

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/gr_driving3.gif)

[firehawkclone]

Welcome SSgt

I just had a flash back (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[trackbird]

http://www.summitpoint-raceway.com/

I'd look into their "FATT" program (Friday At The Track). It's usually reasonably priced and it seems well run. I have family in that area and have to ask if you are from the WVANG? I grew up in Martinsburg until about 8 years ago.

A few things.

I'd probably run the stock rear brakes or maybe the LT1 or LS1 rear brakes (probably cheaper than the Wilwood stuff). Stock third gen rear disks may be enough with the right pads.

I'd also consider trying to get the same size wheels and tires on both ends of the car. I had 275/40-17's on my 1989 Formula on 17x9.5 wheels with 5.5 inches of backspacing and they fit like factory wheels. Just something to consider.

With that, I'm going to get some breakfast and I'm sure the third gen pilots will drop in here soon (PF Flyer runs at Summit Point with his 3rd gen, Julie used to race a 3rd gen CMC car, Axoid autocrosses one as do several others).

[CMC #37]

Welcome and Happy July 4th SSgt! We have a good third gen crew here. I recently sold my third gen race car that was very dialed in for CMC. Raced it for about five years, it was an '84 Trans-Am with the L69 engine. I always drove it with the rear end brake dialed out or almost dialed out with stock brakes and a proportioning valve- this is pretty much the norm with this car in track situations unless you want to experience some real nasty wheel hop! If you bought the Wilwood stuff the good news is you can sell it! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Your underhood combo sounds really potent! Your job once you hit the track will be from letting all that power get you in trouble while you are in the learning stages (if you are experienced my apologies!).

I knew I'd miss my 3rd gen race car so I got a '91 TPI Formula five-speed 305 last year. A lucky situation yielded a low mile stroker, also a '91 TPI, and I am also going the T-56 route. Car is at Blaine Fabrication and will get Alan's nice custom SFCs and 3.5" exhaust. This will be a street car but will do an occasional lap at the big track! Not sure what I'll do with all that power. Hubby asked that question and I said "I'm going to laugh like a crazy person!!!!" MUHAAA HAAA!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/burnout.gif)

[Crazy Canuck]

welcome to the board. hope you like it here.
btw, on the items you are working on, the k-member, i strongly suggest you do some readings on the board and check about the new UMI K-member that seems to be very strong and much more oriented towards racing (not just 1/4 mile)
Also, for any fab work for cage, BlaineFab does excellent work and can give you lots of great advice.

As for the sway bars, not sure about 3rd gens... but you are thinking 33mm/25mm setup. for a 4th gen, that would make the rear a bit loose.
As for the brakes, the rears aren't worth the upgrade... put the $ on the front ones... and good pad selection.

Welcome aboard and enjoy the reading and the fun.

[SSgt. Carroll]

welcome to the board. hope you like it here.
btw, on the items you are working on, the k-member, i strongly suggest you do some readings on the board and check about the new UMI K-member that seems to be very strong and much more oriented towards racing (not just 1/4 mile)
Also, for any fab work for cage, BlaineFab does excellent work and can give you lots of great advice.

As for the sway bars, not sure about 3rd gens... but you are thinking 33mm/25mm setup. for a 4th gen, that would make the rear a bit loose.
As for the brakes, the rears aren't worth the upgrade... put the $ on the front ones... and good pad selection.

Welcome aboard and enjoy the reading and the fun.

I didn't think UMI made a K-Member for 3rd Gens.

[SSgt. Carroll]

I just read that they are working on it. Sounds great.... I like UMI because it seems they aim for road racing not drag queens.

What else should I look into? Lower LCA brackets? coil over kits?

My goal is to be competitive with a 06 Z06 handling wise. Engine wise.... I will figure out when I can.... maybe a 427CI LS2? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I am a novice but not stupid. I have my associates in engineering and working on my bachlors. Graduated high school at 16. I am currently 19.

So really lay it on me. After I really start getting into this I wouldn't mind getting something I am not afriad to mess up and rub some tires.

I have a friend who is actualy with me for the ride with a 87 Iroc Z28 with factory T-Tops.... I know hard to beleive but no joke lol. His name is Shlomo... I know seriously though. My name is Mike by the way. Sorry for rambling lol. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/1poke.gif)

[Crazy Canuck]

advice: take your time and make sure you do things only once
as for a ls2 427cid, i think that might be overkill on a 3rd gen body.
i have a ls2 stroker only and with 510rwhp NA is more than enough... much cheaper than the 427.
if a 427 interests you, the ls7 might be a good inexpensive choice.

there are so many things that can be done... depends on priorities and $-budget.
I'd focus on chassis rigidity/safety, braking, handling, and only after all those would i look into power.

as mentionned, depends on $ and priorities.
for starters, you can always get some good quality time @ a track/course, get some good pads and alignment... that will bring you a big grin and let you learn more from your car... then go step by step based on what you want to achieve out of the car.

imho, it's more fun to improve it gradually along the years.

[axoid]

Welcome to the board. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

My advice about sway bars is with stock springs Spohn's 34/25mm combinations is a good setup. But if you get into race springs the sway bars will depend on what spring rates you running and how you like the car to handle.

[PF Flyer]

Welcome aboard.

Summit Pt is my home track. I've run all three circuits and they all have their challenges. I've also run it in a 4th Gen and my current ride, a 3rd Gen. You can take the 87 TA link in the sig and drop me line with any questions.

My 3rd gen is setup as an SCCA American Sedan (A/S) class car. It's fairly well sorted and a whole lotta fun. Some of what you want to do swith yours ounds great, but we can talk in more detail. 'Seat Time' sounds like the best mod for now. The more you can get, the more the car will come around.

I started doing FATT (Friday At The Track) with BSR (Bill Scott Racing) way back in '99 and the itch hasn't been cleared up yet. I'm hoping to make it there this coming week-end with NASA (Nat'l Auto Sports Assoc), as I'm an instructor and I'm really needing some track time right about now.

If you can make it up there, this Saturday is a spectator event also going on so there will be a 20 dollar gate fee, look for a blue and silver 87 Trans Am and stop in and say hello. I don't believe that there will be any charge to get in on Sunday.

This post has been edited by PF Flyer: Jul 5 2006, 01:33 PM

[AndyJ]

advice: take your time and make sure you do things only once

imho, it's more fun to improve it gradually along the years.

Mike,

Take Eugenio's advice to heart. You willl most likely find the plan you have in your mind now is going to change over the next few months as your knowledge increases. This stuff can be insanely expensive and it is better to only buy/install it once! These guys know their stuff and the signal to noise ratio is better here than other other board I frequent.

Just my $.02 -- and I love those 3rd Gens! Got an 87 Garage Queen I am working on now.

Andy

[slowTA]

Graduated high school at 16.

First off... Overachiever (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) But having just graduated as an ME after too many years of trying, keep it simple until you're done with school. I can't remember how may autocrosses I've missed because I was trying to get the car ready while doing homework at the same time.

The best thing is to get the car reliable and predictable before any major work is done. It sounds like the motor is already in, if so you know the factory TPI leaves some power out there. Aluminum rockers are nice, but may not be the best choice for longevity. Keep an eye on them.

WS6/Z28 factory swaybars are 36/24mm. I found that with street tires this combo oversteers quite a bit, but with R compounds it pushes slightly. Try what you have and adjust as needed. For the brakes, factory rear disks should be fine. '89 and newer rear disks are almost the same as LT1 rears. I think the difference is rotor height and a noise damper on the caliper. Again, try what you have. By working your way up to the corners you sahould find the limits of the brakes without getting into too much trouble.

[SSgt. Carroll]

LOL!....

School is no burdon at all. I well be doing like 2 classes at night during the week. I like the job I have now so I am not planing on leaving it just looking for more education. Within a few months I should be getting another raise so I will have more funding. (Most people think I have to much now).

I am trying to go all out but I don't want to do it all at once because I would like to see what I need to adapt to my driving.

But I do want to buy everything I can that has nothing to do with my driving that helps the car.

So like would lower lca bracket help? Tubular panhard bars, LCAs, etc.

I am deffinitly going to go with a UMI K-Member and A-Arms along with there SFCs. I have done alot of structural CAD and I tell you thats amazing stuff they have over there compared to everything else out there.

Also with me going with a tubular front end and using aluminum heads I am pretty close to pulling 100 pounds off then front. What can I do to compensate for the ride height? Is there like an adjustable coil over system out there or something like that?

Tires.... anyone recommend a tire that wont kill me everytime I have to replace them? Id like to do 275s all the way around after reading what you said about tires being equal. Would that work ok?

I do have a LT1 rear in the car now with a disc rear. You guys are saying it will "Work". Can I improve at all apon them?

Rack and Pinion and power steering...does anyone make an aftermarket one that will tighten the ratio up and just the overall steering?

Brake Booster and Cylinder... anyone make an upgrade for this?

Will the 3.42 rear gear be ok at a track like summit with a T56? Should I go lower? or even higher?

Sorry for all the questions...I just love to learn (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/nutkick.gif)

PF Flyer your local... didn't notice lol. Anyway I can check out your car sometime? Also why don't you come to any of the local events? lol (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/twak.gif)

[trackbird]

I do have a LT1 rear in the car now with a disc rear. You guys are saying it will "Work". Can I improve at all upon them?

Be aware that the 17x9.5 with 5.5" of backspacing will not fit that axle, you'll need to adjust the backspacing for the extra width of the axle (don't just order the wheel sizes I gave you since you've changed axles).

[PF Flyer]

PF Flyer your local, Anyway I can check out your car sometime? Also why don't you come to any of the local events?

I'll be at Summit Pt this coming week-end if you wanna see the car, as it's not 'tagged' for the street anymore. There'll be plenty of action as well, from hot laps to drifting to a roll over contest.

(IMG:http://www.pf-flyer.com/images/pf_flyer_at_midohio_0404.jpg)

[John_D.]

Okay, I have to ask... What is a roll-over contest?

[CMC #37]

Okay, I have to ask... What is a roll-over contest?

I think that involves Evos! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[trackbird]

Okay, I have to ask... What is a roll-over contest?

I believe it involves rolling cars over (on their roof) on the track. It's like drifting, all about style points and slightly more practical...... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/burnout.gif)

[Toxic Iroc]

hey im new here names shlomo im gettin into this with mike "ssgtcarroll" i got an 87 iroc with a 350 t-top yes a t-top i have some koni yellows and some pro kit on the way { should be in the mail} im wanting to know if this will fit on to the zo6 motor sport rims well and if so what size spacers do i need i would liek to run 17x9.5 with some 275's and will be goin with some sub frame conectors and some other mods

my car is pretyy much stock beside a soon to come butiful 3' exhust , rebuilt trans,rear end rebuil, dis,wires plugs,steerin wheel radio, air filter

and tryin to lear alot more from everyone and what not peace

~shlomo~

[SSgt. Carroll]

Just to let everyone know Shlomo has been trying to post for like 4 days and couldn't get on. So its a remarkable occasion that hes online. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/1poke.gif)

This post has been edited by SSgt. Carroll: Jul 7 2006, 03:45 AM

[Toxic Iroc]

Just to let everyone know Shlomo has been trying to post for like 4 days and couldn't get on. So its a remarkable occasion that hes online. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/1poke.gif)

Hey! it hasnt been 4 days....its been 3!

[trackbird]

hey im new here names shlomo im gettin into this with mike "ssgtcarroll" i got an 87 iroc with a 350 t-top yes a t-top i have some koni yellows and some pro kit on the way { should be in the mail} im wanting to know if this will fit on to the zo6 motor sport rims well and if so what size spacers do i need i would liek to run 17x9.5 with some 275's and will be goin with some sub frame conectors and some other mods

my car is pretyy much stock beside a soon to come butiful 3' exhust , rebuilt trans,rear end rebuil, dis,wires plugs,steerin wheel radio, air filter

and tryin to lear alot more from everyone and what not peace

~shlomo~

Just to let everyone know Shlomo has been trying to post for like 4 days and couldn't get on. So its a remarkable occasion that hes online. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/1poke.gif)

I guess I can get rid of his other username? I just figured he hadn't checked his mail or you'd pm me if he had problems. I can manually approve accounts and I used to do just that. I think that's how the last hacker got in, so I've quit doing that without talking to someone first.

[PF Flyer]

Jon D/Trackbird - the Hyperfest is a full day of activities based around the 'Tuner' cars. They have a midway, bands, entertainment, US Drift 101 classes, drifting, hot laps and a roll over contest.

The contest is you bring some POS car that still runs, put in some sort of rollbar, gut the interior and remove the glass, etc, etc. I'm sure there are rules for this somewhere, I've just not been interested enough to go find them. As an instructor, I'm usually too busy or tired to go watch any of the other activities.

Then they race down 'the Chute' towards 'the Carousel' (main circuit at Summit Pt) and hit a ramp and try to roll the car the most number of times. I do know you can't use an air cannon to assist your roll over. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

[SSgt. Carroll]

Doesn't that mess up the track?

[AndyJ]

I do know you can't use an air cannon to assist your roll over. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

Good lord,

What do you smoke when you do this? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

[trackbird]

Jon D/Trackbird - the Hyperfest is a full day of activities based around the 'Tuner' cars.

I'm aware. My mother in law works at the track, remember? And, I was at a hyperfest at one of the tracks we were at with the AIX car (now AV8SS), it's been years. I wasn't really impressed then, and nothing has changed...... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif)

Though the roll over contest seems just amusing enough to take a shot at it..... Where else can you crash a car on purpose?

[CrashTestDummy]

As others have said, go slowly with the parts replacement. Work on seat time first, and then start working in parts that make sense. The best thing you can to with a 3rd Gen, though is get the chassis stiffer. If the classes you plan to run in allow it, get some SFCs and install the roll cage so that it helps stiffen the car. They don't call them 'flexible flyers' for nothing. :-) That stiffer chassis will protect the body parts (fewer cracks between the window and hatch), and allow all future mods to work better.

Pay close attention as to how the part you are installing now will interact/interfere with future mods. I'm right now trying to figure out how I'm going to work my next exhaust system in around the SFCs I chose to install. I think I just about have it worked out, but it has meant some time just laying under the car and thinking about how things would fit together.

You may want to double-think about front coil-overs. With the strut front end, you are limited to wheel width and backspace on that car. Most coilovers will only hurt that situation. I am running 16" wheels with 5" backspace. I can go another 1/4", maybe, because of the Koni struts. I don't think I could use these wheels with COs. You can put a 12" wide wheel almost completely under the back of the car. It is the front that is the problem.

[SSgt. Carroll]

I will be signing up for FATT soon at summit. You guys think I should take my RS 5.0 to that since its slower (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) or should I go ahead and take my Z28?

I understand what you guys are saying but I have about 1000 a month that I set aside to spend on what makes me happy and thats my cars. So I need ideas where to start. Like what tires you guys have experiance with? Shock springs, lca, etc. like asked before. I just want to start somewhere.

[CMC #37]

I will be signing up for FATT soon at summit. You guys think I should take my RS 5.0 to that since its slower (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) or should I go ahead and take my Z28?

I understand what you guys are saying but I have about 1000 a month that I set aside to spend on what makes me happy and thats my cars. So I need ideas where to start. Like what tires you guys have experiance with? Shock springs, lca, etc. like asked before. I just want to start somewhere.

Slower is always better for beginner, fast cars will get you in trouble faster! With a slow car you may have a chance to correct. Your $ will go fast...do a search on these things you are interested in and you'll get lots of info. What you don't get or need clarification on we are here to help ya!

[PF Flyer]

... 'seat time' is the best mod you can do for a car. If the 5.0 is mostly stock and, with a 'lil help, be able to handle almost 2 hours on track, then take it to get started with. Then you can work the Camaro and get it done right the first time.


Here a video link to One Lap at Summit

This post has been edited by PF Flyer: Jul 11 2006, 02:08 AM

[SSgt. Carroll]

... 'seat time' is the best mod you can do for a car. If the 5.0 is mostly stock and, with a 'lil help, be able to handle almost 2 hours on track, then take it to get started with. Then you can work the Camaro and get it done right the first time.


Here a video link to One Lap at Summit

I probaly abuse that RS more on the street then I would at the track. You may find that hard to beleive but its true. Its not uncommon for the brakes to be pouring smoke, power steering boiling over, t-tops flying off, bent 16 z28 wheels (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) lol.

This post has been edited by SSgt. Carroll: Jul 11 2006, 12:33 PM

[CMC #37]

... 'seat time' is the best mod you can do for a car. If the 5.0 is mostly stock and, with a 'lil help, be able to handle almost 2 hours on track, then take it to get started with. Then you can work the Camaro and get it done right the first time.


Here a video link to One Lap at Summit

I probaly abuse that RS more on the street then I would at the track. You may find that hard to beleive but its true. Its not uncommon for the brakes to be pouring smoke, power steering boiling over, t-tops flying off, bent 16 z28 wheels (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) lol.

You need to get to a track fast before you 1) Hurt yourself and/or someone else 2) Get in trouble with the law. 3) Don't survive your teens. For a teenager, I don't find this hard to believe unless you are completely joking! All of us did dum stuff - hopefully a word to the wise will get in. I can't imagine the kind of driving one would do to get a 3rd gen to puke PS fluid on the street, it is hard enough to get the stock ps to do this on the track. The t-tops flying off, well, that has nothing to do with driving, althought folks who tend to forget to lock 'em or put them in place properly tend to keep doing it. Kind of an expensive brain fart!

If you trash your car on the track it will not last long there either. The folks who track here drive our cars hard, however, it is not abuse, especially in the learning stages. There are common things that we beef up the cars to make then withstand the limits we push them to on the track. My hat is off to the stock version, you can go a long way with that before you can really benefit from mods. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I'd run a track friendly brake pad after running the stock pad the first day, then I would not change much else for the new few times assuming your car is in good working condition.

[SSgt. Carroll]

I don't purposly do those things. I had air in the lines on my brakes. Power steering for some reason on a really hot day last year was just boiling over, and my wheels are from my mother driving in and thinking she can floor it on a turn in gravel. So most likely the car gets more abused in street driving then race if you get what I am saying now.

Every once in a while I will push the car on backroads that see no traffic and have no houses around but I guess we all have.

This post has been edited by SSgt. Carroll: Jul 11 2006, 04:05 PM

[CMC #37]

I don't purposly do those things. I had air in the lines on my brakes. Power steering for some reason on a really hot day last year was just boiling over, and my wheels are from my mother driving in and thinking she can floor it on a turn in gravel. So most likely the car gets more abused in street driving then race if you get what I am saying now.

Every once in a while I will push the car on backroads that see no traffic and have no houses around but I guess we all have.

Good, I was hoping you weren't a crazy nut! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I wondered if you had big potholes bending your wheels...my family in Montana has car-sized ones up near Glacier National Park where they live!

[SSgt. Carroll]

Well I upgraded you could say:

http://www.customdoorsandhardware.com/mycr...wstuff/cam1.JPG

[John_D.]

Nice. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

(somehow I missed this thread from July 6 until now...)