[pknowles]

Interesting read.

http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/editorial/e....asp?NewsID=188

[KeithO]

I read the report and scanned the appendices. While there might be some erroneous things in there I like the thinking that it will stimulate in a segment of our population. It reminds me of a conversation that I had at "high society" dinner party years ago when I went to things like that.

I overheard a guy preaching the wonders of this electric car he bought and how it had zero emissions. I shimmied over to the group he was talking to and I engaged him about the car first just to get him talking. I then redirected the conversation in an unexpected direction. It went something like this:

Me: So, you just plug in it when you pull it into your garage and it recharges?

Mr. Sophisticated: Yes. It takes overnight to fully charge and then it's good for an honest 50 miles. It's not much but it fulfills my needs.

Me: Interesting. ...and you say it has zero emissions, huh?

Mr. Sophisticated: Yes. Since it has an electric motor, there are no emissions at all. It doesn't even have a tailpipe to emit pollutants. This is definitely the future now. A zero emissions vehicle is a god send for our environment and I am proud to own one to do my part to reduce my impact on the world.

Me: Cool. Wait a minute - you have to plug this in to charge it up, right?

Mr. Sophisticated: Yes. Like I said overnight.

Me: So it's powered by electricity supplied by your electric company, right?

Mr. Sophisticated: Yes.

Me: Did you know that the majority of electrical power in this country is generated by coal-fired plants?

Mr. Sophisticated: Yes, I guess I knew this but what is your point?

Me: Well, you're telling us your driving a zero emissions car and you're right - the car emits zero emissions as the end user of the energy. However, what you really have is a coal-fired car and the pollutants are just emitted somewhere else. I am not sure that a coal-fired car containing rechargeable batteries with a disposal problem is really good for the environment.

The guy (and many of his friends) then seemed at first surprised then quickly turned angry towards me. Real information shattered their limited thinking into what was really going on with that car. While I am sure that I was the jerk in the conversation in their minds, I believe that they should be able to think a little more critically in the future. That was my intention.

I see this report along these same lines.

[pknowles]

I read the report and scanned the appendices. While there might be some erroneous things in there I like the thinking that it will stimulate in a segment of our population. It reminds me of a conversation that I had at "high society" dinner party years ago when I went to things like that.

I overheard a guy preaching the wonders of this electric car he bought and how it had zero emissions. I shimmied over to the group he was talking to and I engaged him about the car first just to get him talking. I then redirected the conversation in an unexpected direction. It went something like this:

Me: So, you just plug in it when you pull it into your garage and it recharges?

Mr. Sophisticated: Yes. It takes overnight to fully charge and then it's good for an honest 50 miles. It's not much but it fulfills my needs.

Me: Interesting. ...and you say it has zero emissions, huh?

Mr. Sophisticated: Yes. Since it has an electric motor, there are no emissions at all. It doesn't even have a tailpipe to emit pollutants. This is definitely the future now. A zero emissions vehicle is a god send for our environment and I am proud to own one to do my part to reduce my impact on the world.

Me: Cool. Wait a minute - you have to plug this in to charge it up, right?

Mr. Sophisticated: Yes. Like I said overnight.

Me: So it's powered by electricity supplied by your electric company, right?

Mr. Sophisticated: Yes.

Me: Did you know that the majority of electrical power in this country is generated by coal-fired plants?

Mr. Sophisticated: Yes, I guess I knew this but what is your point?

Me: Well, you're telling us your driving a zero emissions car and you're right - the car emits zero emissions as the end user of the energy. However, what you really have is a coal-fired car and the pollutants are just emitted somewhere else. I am not sure that a coal-fired car containing rechargeable batteries with a disposal problem is really good for the environment.

The guy (and many of his friends) then seemed at first surprised then quickly turned angry towards me. Real information shattered their limited thinking into what was really going on with that car. While I am sure that I was the jerk in the conversation in their minds, I believe that they should be able to think a little more critically in the future. That was my intention.

I see this report along these same lines.

Keith I agree with you 100% and I have similar discussions at work were I get to be the bad guy. Although pollution control on something as large scale as a power plant is much easier then for a car. Coal power plants have a ton of after treatment systems to reduce pollution that are not feasible in a car (bag houses, cyclone sepperators, UV light chambers, etc). Not sure if it's actually cleaner in the end, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was with all the coal after treatment.

I posted the link because I don't see a lot of people trying to look at the overall picture, which this article at least takes a shot at. Even if the numbers are not backed up by sources, I still think it's interesting reading.