[pknowles]

Interesting read.

http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/editorial/e....asp?NewsID=188

[KeithO]

I read the report and scanned the appendices. While there might be some erroneous things in there I like the thinking that it will stimulate in a segment of our population. It reminds me of a conversation that I had at "high society" dinner party years ago when I went to things like that.

I overheard a guy preaching the wonders of this electric car he bought and how it had zero emissions. I shimmied over to the group he was talking to and I engaged him about the car first just to get him talking. I then redirected the conversation in an unexpected direction. It went something like this:

Me: So, you just plug in it when you pull it into your garage and it recharges?

Mr. Sophisticated: Yes. It takes overnight to fully charge and then it's good for an honest 50 miles. It's not much but it fulfills my needs.

Me: Interesting. ...and you say it has zero emissions, huh?

Mr. Sophisticated: Yes. Since it has an electric motor, there are no emissions at all. It doesn't even have a tailpipe to emit pollutants. This is definitely the future now. A zero emissions vehicle is a god send for our environment and I am proud to own one to do my part to reduce my impact on the world.

Me: Cool. Wait a minute - you have to plug this in to charge it up, right?

Mr. Sophisticated: Yes. Like I said overnight.

Me: So it's powered by electricity supplied by your electric company, right?

Mr. Sophisticated: Yes.

Me: Did you know that the majority of electrical power in this country is generated by coal-fired plants?

Mr. Sophisticated: Yes, I guess I knew this but what is your point?

Me: Well, you're telling us your driving a zero emissions car and you're right - the car emits zero emissions as the end user of the energy. However, what you really have is a coal-fired car and the pollutants are just emitted somewhere else. I am not sure that a coal-fired car containing rechargeable batteries with a disposal problem is really good for the environment.

The guy (and many of his friends) then seemed at first surprised then quickly turned angry towards me. Real information shattered their limited thinking into what was really going on with that car. While I am sure that I was the jerk in the conversation in their minds, I believe that they should be able to think a little more critically in the future. That was my intention.

I see this report along these same lines.

[CrashTestDummy]

Yep, they are merely moving the pollution point. Car and Driver did a report on electric cars about 20 years ago, and noted that not only do they simply move the point source of the pollution, they are actually less efficient than the gas-driven cars of the time. Maybe things have changed, but you are _still_ moving the pollution source, not changing it.

Similar goes with ethanol. You still have to burn the HCs to produce the energy. Alcohol does not have as much energy as gasoline, so when you burn it, your vehicle is usually less efficient. The only nice thing is there is more hydrogen and oxygen there to combine and make water, but you still have to oxidize the same number of carbon molecules.

You're right, electric isn't the solution, UNLESS you can recharge it with solar or wind. Then, you have a very, very low emissions vehicle. The mileage is nice, but I am VERY concerned with what happens with the batteries when you have to replace them.

The answer is just not to travel. If my PHB would just let me telecommute.....

Me: Well, you're telling us your driving a zero emissions car and you're right - the car emits zero emissions as the end user of the energy. However, what you really have is a coal-fired car and the pollutants are just emitted somewhere else. I am not sure that a coal-fired car containing rechargeable batteries with a disposal problem is really good for the environment.

The guy (and many of his friends) then seemed at first surprised then quickly turned angry towards me. Real information shattered their limited thinking into what was really going on with that car. While I am sure that I was the jerk in the conversation in their minds, I believe that they should be able to think a little more critically in the future. That was my intention.

I see this report along these same lines.