[HoosierPE]

Greetings fellow F-body enthusiast!

I've created this new topic to introduce Hoosier Performance Engineering's first new product; a clean sheet approach to a billet front hub and bearing assembly for the 4th Gen F-bodies and C4 Corvettes. Many of the other hub/bearing threads are getting pretty long and don't really end with a sustainable solution, so I thought a new thread was in order.

I won't bore you with the details on HPE, other than to say a group of highly qualified and skilled automotive engineers have gotten together to create performance products for the 4th Gens and modern muscle cars. You can read more about HPE on the General Discussions forum where Kevin introduced HPE as a new sponsor.

I've been contemplating the 4th Gen front hub issues since I returned to Auto-X in the fall of '97 with the purchase of my first TA and began working in earnest on new designs in November of last year. What you see below is the result of two gear-heads' work for the past 7 or 8 months, plus over $6000 worth of invested in prototypes, tooling and CNC programming. Prototypes are installed and accumulating mileage and we will be ready to take orders as soon as the machine shop volume quotation is received and final pricing can is set. (Trying to wrap up pricing yet this week.)

I'll let the pictures do the talking first, and then will follow up with some detailed descriptions of the components. Enjoy.

Finished product:
(IMG:https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1014542_375876139190953_1528206097_o.jpg) , (IMG:https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/976331_375876125857621_1907471607_o.jpg)

Here's a disassembled OEM hub and the new HPE replacement parts. Note the OEM uses ball bearings while the other is tapered roller. On Timken's website, the tapered bearings are rated much higher in every category vs. the ball bearings. Small bearing has a 1.25" ID and the large bearing has an 1.5" ID. For comparison, the old GM RWD cars used like 7/8" and 1" bearings with the front spindle design.
(IMG:https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/1009411_377277199050847_782089290_o.jpg)
(IMG:https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/999016_377277289050838_494724905_n.jpg)
(IMG:https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1009351_377277345717499_1374075883_o.jpg)
(IMG:https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/1015137_377277329050834_2109600006_o.jpg)

We use an inverted spindle design, much like OEM part, except ours is a two piece design with a wheel mounting flange and pin (spindle) that we shrink fit together. The shrink fit provides three times the push out force of an equivalent press fit. Pin, flange and housing were all coated with a clear zinc treatment. The pin has been case hardened in the two areas where the bearing races will rest. The mounting flange is case hardened where the seal will run. Specs were per the Timken recommendations for the bearings used.
(IMG:https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/1008279_375876219190945_1586806985_o.jpg)

Pin with locking washer, nut and small cap screws. The washer engages the key way in the in threaded end of the pin, the nut is added and torqued to desired preload, and when the threaded holes in the nut lines up with the holes in the washer, the cap screws are added as the retention mechanism, basically replacing the cotter pin in similar parts.
(IMG:https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/1014577_375876269190940_1184777397_o.jpg)
(IMG:https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1015262_375876245857609_442072466_o.jpg)

Sub-assembly shown with dry bearings for clarity.
(IMG:https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1015600_377277409050826_1257648155_o.jpg)

These assemblies are completely rebuildable and repackable. Should be the last set you will ever need.

I will add some more pictures of the prototypes installed on one of our cars.

Please let me know what you think!

[SSTAT]

Jut this spring I officially depleted every junk yard I know of these hubs. I definitely want some (NEED some) but not with only some daily driving and one autocross worth of testing on them. There were high hopes for costly past designs that failed. I will shell out $1300 but only after someone has a season or so of actual racing on them and makes sure the wheels don't fall off. From a marketing standpoint wouldnt it make sense to get some real world (ie. not just one autocross) racing data before presenting these to the 4th gen/C4 crowd? Street cars don't need these.

This post has been edited by SSTAT: Jun 26 2013, 01:17 AM

[HoosierPE]

Jut this spring I officially depleted every junk yard I know of these hubs. I definitely want some (NEED some) but not with only some daily driving and one autocross worth of testing on them. There were high hopes for costly past designs that failed. I will shell out $1300 but only after someone has a season or so of actual racing on them and makes sure the wheels don't fall off. From a marketing standpoint wouldnt it make sense to get some real world (ie. not just one autocross) racing data before presenting these to the 4th gen/C4 crowd? Street cars don't need these.

SSTAT,

That's one view point, but as you pointed out, the supply of seasoned salvage yard parts are drying up and we all know the parts store replaces don't last like they should. I understand the community has been burned by past attempts, and that is exactly why I created the parts shown here. I studied all of the previous attempts and their short comings and also the original part design and improved on every aspect of these other designs. In a perfect world, with nothing but time, yes, it would be great to wait until we had a season or two exposure on these before we offer them up, but I believe the need far out ways the risk at this point. If, in my professional engineering assessment I thought there was any possibility of catastrophic failure, I would not have offered them up to this forum in the first place. If the improvements are not apparent to you in the pictures and descriptions above, then you should probably wait until next year.

[SSTAT]

Jut this spring I officially depleted every junk yard I know of these hubs. I definitely want some (NEED some) but not with only some daily driving and one autocross worth of testing on them. There were high hopes for costly past designs that failed. I will shell out $1300 but only after someone has a season or so of actual racing on them and makes sure the wheels don't fall off. From a marketing standpoint wouldnt it make sense to get some real world (ie. not just one autocross) racing data before presenting these to the 4th gen/C4 crowd? Street cars don't need these.

SSTAT,

That's one view point, but as you pointed out, the supply of seasoned salvage yard parts are drying up and we all know the parts store replaces don't last like they should. I understand the community has been burned by past attempts, and that is exactly why I created the parts shown here. I studied all of the previous attempts and their short comings and also the original part design and improved on every aspect of these other designs. In a perfect world, with nothing but time, yes, it would be great to wait until we had a season or two exposure on these before we offer them up, but I believe the need far out ways the risk at this point. If, in my professional engineering assessment I thought there was any possibility of catastrophic failure, I would not have offered them up to this forum in the first place. If the improvements are not apparent to you in the pictures and descriptions above, then you should probably wait until next year.

Fair enough, but I think the other designs were by engineers also, and had more than one event on them before they failed. Nothing in those pics is apparent to me as I'm not an engineer, but I thought professional engineering assessments generally included testing (in the target environment). I truly do have the highest hopes for you and your design.

[mr.beachcomber]

...I think the other designs were by engineers also..

I think that the original design was more than adequate for the task at hand. (After all, GM had to take into consideration that their product would be raced, auto-xed, and subjected to more stress and strain than simple straight-line driving.)

Just wanted to point out that even though the OEM and aftermarket designs were developed by professional engineers, there is a world of difference between a product whose price is controlled by bean counters looking to maximize profit and a product designed/manufactured by someone concerned more about quality, e.g., tolerances, use of higher quality steel, racing quality studs, etc.

A case in point: Years ago, Chicago Rawhide used to supply the best C4 wheel hub assemblies until a bean counter sent their operation off shore to maximize profits. Now you get the luck of the draw. I have seen new hub assemblies that had as much or more play than the worn assemblies they were meant to replace.

Personally, I would rather have a product like that offered by Hoosier Engineering than a bucket full of Chicago Rawhide hub assemblies that I have to test to find the best units. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)