Watts Link, No joke..... Options

[shortbus]

After I added the WL I drove around with WL Pivot in the top hole. It did not feel all that different.

I drove at Putnam Park with the WLP in the top hole with my normal race set up (i.e.: tires, etc)

I then moved the WLP down one hole (one half inch right?) The car felt pretty much the same, but I think it was better. Probably because it pushed a bit more and there was less drama at the limit.

The next day I drove it around Putnam for 2 hours in the rain on street tires. The car was fine. Better then I remember it was with the PHR.

(Keep in mind that I am a dull person and such... my senses are dull. I'll notice the big changes like the difference between a dirt road and a paved road.)

My buddy drove my car (a very excellent and sensitive driver) said the car was better and way more manageable then it use to be. He drove the car in the wet.

[Cr0usEEE]

Sean,

I started the car one pivot point down from top which worked GREAT at OVR's last Cooper Stadium event as the lot is not as grippy as the Fedex Field lot. I believe that I tend to turn the car more with trail braking than Brian or Sam...to which I did not notice the slight push that they did. Yeah I still divebomb slow as shit corners....

I moved it to the top most point which made a big improvement at Fedex's high grip lot in steady state turns and made slaloms a little bit worse.

I will try a few things at my next event up with Jason Kolk and those Detroit region people and see how it goes.

BTW...if I get this feel thing down cars with watts links will DESTROY at autox. The fact that I could change that RC just that little bit made the car love slaloms more than anything. I see this as a huge benefit when it comes to Nationals next year if we have a "sweeper" course and a "slalom" course. 5 min adjustment with no shock or spring changes and you can throw the car around slalom cones.

Now I just gotta add more rear spacer and roll my fenders more. The car is able to "squat" out of corners putting massive power down which is causing a little to much fender to tire contact that I would like.

Another note: I like the "feel" of the auburn racer diff in my car better than the T2R. It feels like I can just use the throttle to change the attitude of the car that much more.

[shortbus]

I'm only going to get one testing opportunity this year on a semi-decent surface, and there won't be any opportunity for tuning until next year.

I was able to bring a racket and crescent wrench and make changes to the WLP while in grid. It was easy enough to do it by myself in 3 minutes. No jack required.

Besides, your only going to move it down anyway. =)

[Cr0usEEE]

I'm only going to get one testing opportunity this year on a semi-decent surface, and there won't be any opportunity for tuning until next year.

I was able to bring a racket and crescent wrench and make changes to the WLP while in grid. It was easy enough to do it by myself in 3 minutes. No jack required.

Besides, your only going to move it down anyway. =)

I believe it was an 1-1/8" rachet and a 1-1/4" wrench to get it all changed...and it looks like Brian (Shortbus) and I have the same feedback as well.

[sgarnett]

I was able to bring a racket and crescent wrench and make changes to the WLP while in grid. It was easy enough to do it by myself in 3 minutes. No jack required.

Besides, your only going to move it down anyway. =)

I'm definitely going to start with it lower than most. My car was already dialed in with the Hotchkiss bar. I had swapped in a Hellwig bar before Putnam (at the stiffest setting) with no other changes, and swapped the Hotchkiss bar back in for the Watts because it fits (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) My spring rates, shocks, front bar, and ride height are all the basic Strano setup, but I had the PHR lowered a little. So, by knowing where the Strano cars ended up, I can make a reasonable guess about where to start mine (which will be lower, but roadkill has nothing to fear).

I didn't realize the pivot could be reached without ramps. That's cool! I'm going to have to try it ahead of time, though. My, um, ground clearance is a bit more snug than yours (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[shortbus]

I didn't realize the pivot could be reached without ramps. That's cool! I'm going to have to try it ahead of time, though. My, um, ground clearance is a bit more snug than yours (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I was initially worried that I'd have to drag around a jack. I was happy I did not have to.

Don't worry though if your arms are long the ground clearance does not matter. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[sgarnett]

Well, the stars are not lining up for me to test tomorrow. My one and only test this year will be on a small, slick lot in cool weather. Good thing I can drop the pivot a notch to plant the rear if needed (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[shortbus]

How did it go?

I did a test yesterday too.... I don't think the pivot needs to move all that much. It is not a drastic change when moving the WLP down (or up). It is more of a gentle change. More akin to a small adjustment with an adjustable rear bar.

Did you move your WLP down all that much?

[sgarnett]

The small, slick, cool test will be next week at Applebee's. I was hoping to test yesterday at UPS in Louisville, but it didn't work out.

For Applebee's, I may drop it to the bottom hole (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Actually, my best guess for the Hotchkiss bar is the 3rd hole from the top (down 1" from top hole). I registered for CP because they usually run mid-afternoon. The 4-banger guys seem to be afraid that the old-school V8s will puke oil everywhere (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This post has been edited by sgarnett: Oct 20 2008, 02:25 PM

[shortbus]

ugh.

I am thinking you'll see that as too low. I have a solid 22mm rear bar and I am using the 3rd hole form the top. (All else the same)

[sgarnett]

Yeah, my first choice for Applebee's Park would be the Miata on street tires. Testing there is of limited value, except that a dry day there is a reasonable proxy for rain anywhere else.

[sgarnett]

The third hole down was at least in the ballpark with the 25.4mm (1") hollow rear bar. On a day that leaves the tires clean and nicely polished, with very little pressure gain over six runs, there's no point in trying to fine-tune it. The car was very well-mannered, predictable, and working well, so I left it alone.

In fact, the car was really behaving like there was a lot more grip than there actually was. I was able to spend a fairly high percentage of time at or near full throttle without it getting squirrely, and it still turned well. It's not dialed in yet, but as-is was pretty good (good enough for a rusty driver to win CP) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This post has been edited by sgarnett: Oct 28 2008, 03:11 PM

[sgarnett]

Hellwig has redesigned their adjustable bar to work with the Watts link.

Stranoparts carries the Hellwig bar, BTW (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

This post has been edited by sgarnett: Jan 24 2009, 01:28 AM

[trackbird]

Sorry I was late to the party, I was driving back to Ohio for most of the day. The aluminum PHB discussion has been relocated here:

http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?showtopic=12718

[KCC455]

How difficult is the Watts Link to setup?

I may have to upgrade my PHB from a poly end / rod end to a double rod end PHB to run 17x 11's and 315 35's. I figured if I am going to need new parts, should I jump in with both feet and just get the Watts Link? But if it requires the use of a Flux Capacitor and a PHD in Suspension Engineering to setup the Watts Link, then I may stick with the simple PHB and it's limitations.
Thank you.

[sgarnett]

I used an electronic level for the setup, which helped a lot, or at least allowed me to pursue precision as far as it would go. The hardest part of the job for me was just cutting off the brake line clips. They have to be ground down flush, since they will be covered by the clamps. Disconnecting the shocks to get better access would have made that go quicker. There were a few other minor installation headaches, but nothing major. The setup isn't hard, just take you time.

I do think you need to have ramps available. It would be tough to get it right on jackstands.

[Sam Strano]

I just cut some notches in the spacers that go inside the clamps and pounded the tab flat. Worked great.

I used an angle finder like you'd use when setting up a torque arm. Cheap, had it, and it works. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Same deal as Sean. Nothing major, just a few things you'd expect with a completely different setup. Handled all myself with normal shop tools. I had to hog out one hole a touch, and cut off some washers so I could reuse two bolts as the heads of the replacements were too big.

[sgarnett]

I didn't have to hog out any holes. I just deviated a bit from the instructions. On the passenger side, I just ran the bolts through without installing the nut. Then I pulled it into line with the holes on the other side, and walked them down evenly, then went back and installed the nuts on the driver side. I had a heads up from CrouseEEE (thanks!) about the bolts beforehand, so I ordered socket head bolts with a non-plated zinc coating (instead of the usual black, which rusts, or plated, which is subject to hydrogen embrittlement in hardened grades). I think I posted the part number for the bolts earlier in this thread.

I did have to just lightly clean up the edge of a weld on the body with a Dremel (got a heads up on that too).

This post has been edited by sgarnett: Mar 11 2009, 05:41 PM

[Sam Strano]

Note that my car was in a big accident and had to be pulled and took a big shot to the LR. Anything I had to do to line it up is in no way an indication of the Watts itself.

[Sam Strano]

I think this might also be approprate for the Chassis/suspension section as well, fwiw....

I ran my first even with the Watts link on my Camaro. I was using some take off tires Brian (BigEnos) gave me dating back to '07. My Auburn Racers is pretty well used up (ask anyone at the event). Worked well, car was a little looser than I'd like in high speed transition, but that's easily put down to not great tires and a weak limited slip. None the less the Watts link was very good, and with some dialing in will get nothing but better.

I ran FTD over some other very capable cars and drivers, including some SS and ASP C5 and C6's as well as a some fully setup Shelby's in FS (expect to run them on raw time, paxed them too pretty handily. Even by '08 PAX index for FS.

I just took an educated guess on rear bar and slapped a 24mm on it. I think it's a touch too much, and will be going to an adjustable 22 for my own car shorly.

And to address the "how much lateral movement does the Watts cut out" discussion.... At least 10mm each way. How do I know? Well, I took 10mm of spacer out of each side on the rear and never rubbed the inside--and still would with a PHB and the spacers before, though not all the time. I'm not disappointed, and it'll only get better the more I understand it, work with it, and use better tires and differential that's less worn (this one dates from before Nationals '06).