Where did you learn to weld? Options

[NU_BLUE]

I have a question. Most of you on here are good welders. I was wondering where ya'll learned it? Do you just pick up over the yrs. or were you trained, etc?

I've played around with a stick welder more times than I remember and I've got the basic idea from welding on farm equipment, etc. However, I would like to get into MIG and TIG welding....I'm just curious where to start.

[trackbird]

Buy a MIG first. If you can stick, you can learn to MIG. Mig welding is probably the easiest type of welding to pick up. Get some help from a friend if you can, if not, start reading and playing with scrap metal. You'll learn to mig like a pro in no time. Weld stuff together and then bend, break and/or cut it back apart. See what makes a good bond and what doesn't. Once you know what it takes to get the metal fully fused, you're on your way.

Just buy a decent quality welder and be realistic about what you want to weld with it. If you need a 220v machine, buy one, if you wish to do thin stuff, a 110v machine will do.

TIG welding has proven to be far more difficult (at least to me) than I expected it to be. I would seriously recommend a MIG long before you buy a TIG. It's not impossible to reverse the order, but it sure is more difficult.

[Blainefab]

Take a class - community college, welding supply shop, whatever. I hacked around myself for too long, just a little bit of time with a pro got me going in the right direction.

[trackbird]

I realized that I forgot to say exactly what Alan said. In fact, I've got classes lined up myself at a local college. It sure can't hurt.

[TSHACK]

I've been thinking of taking some classes too. I do a fair job now. But it would be nice to get certifed too.

[prockbp]

I learned to weld at Tarrant County College in Fort Worth, TX. I have an AAS in Welding Technology.

You don't need a degree to learn to weld though.

All manual welding processes are equally difficult to master. There are many advantages and disadvantages to each process. Once you have mastered all of them, TIG welding is the easiest, Stick welding is the most versatile, and MIG/Flux-core welding are the fastest.

What is your ultimate goal?

[EchoMirage]

union trained and certified. butt welding pipe with 100% x-ray is a hell of a lot harder and more complicated then just slapping some tubes together and running a stringer or two.

[Beach Cruiser]

My Dad taught me to TIG Aluminum at age 10, from there the rest was easy. I surprised a lot of Millwrights that used to work for me as a young engineer when I'd grab thier welder and run a bead and tell them "I want it just like that!" Pissed them off at first, but won me a lot of respect from them, over time they would never question me when I caught them taking shortcuts.

[mitchntx]

My dad taught me the basics of how to stick weld when I was very, very young. Then, 40 years later, I begin to try again.

My dad was trained via the GI bill after WW2 and worked in shipyards on the east coast for years. Then he came back to Texas and began building drilling rigs for oil, gas and water.

[robz71lm7]

I messed around for a while by myself(couple years) then I set about doing it right. After I became a CWI at work I decided I needed to become proficient at what I was inspecting. I've been taught by our day to day and maintenance contract welders working outages at our plant (coal fired utility boilers). (ASME code, x-ray quality tube welds for those that don't know). I should be taking a tube test tig root, tig hot pass and stick cap in 6G before the end of the year. Lately I've been welding 4 to 6" pipe (not on the boiler but service water in the plant) and some boiler tube with the tube welders that work for me when time permits.

FWIW I've met more than a few expert TIG welders that cannot stick weld worth a damn. In some cases TIG is the easiest process for a 'real' welder because there is so much independent control. BTW, all of our TIG welding at the plant is scratch start w/o remote amperage control, so don't let people tell you that you need the latest top of the line inverter machine to TIG weld. (Just a pet peeve of mine)

Don't listen to the internet hoopla about just burning tons of wire/rod and practicing....that's part of it but you need quality instruction from someone. In fact it's best to get it from multiple people. Everyone has a different way of doing things and you will learn a lot faster than working by yourself.

[prockbp]

BTW, all of our TIG welding at the plant is scratch start w/o remote amperage control, so don't let people tell you that you need the latest top of the line inverter machine to TIG weld. (Just a pet peeve of mine)

Some good points here- but you're not going to make welds per D17.1 specs without high-frequency-start and remote amperage control. If your goal is learning how to TIG weld aluminum to aerospace specs, then you must have remote amperage control. Proper starts and stops on any material require remote amperage control. Since 99% of the people welding today are not working even close to aerospace specs, scratch start without remote amperage control is good enough. You don't have to buy an inverter in order to have remote amperage control and high-frequency-start; these are common parts of 99% of the TIG welding machines on the market.

Your comment about inverter technology is true. The Miller Dynasty is the best readily-available TIG welder on the market, but you must have expert-level-knowledge of welding in order to take advantage of it's abilities. Throwing down $6,000 to $10,000 on a Dynasty is useless for novices and most welding professionals. Once you learn what a Dynasty can do, everything else is garbage.

This post has been edited by prockbp: Sep 22 2009, 01:56 AM

[00 Trans Ram]

Still learning!

I simply went and bought a good, but not expensive, Miller 110v mig machine. It came with all the stuff to weld - gas lines, helmet, etc. I simply had to pick up a gas cylinder from the local store.

I started by watching some videos. The best ones are the ones that show you what the weld is actually doing - not the ones with a bright spot of light and some guy talking. Simply put, you want to see some guy make a puddle, move a few mm, make another puddle, repeat. Then, I started sticking metal together.

It was bad at first. I'd set the wire speed too high, or the power too low, and it'd sputter all over the place and do weird things. I finally figured most of it out. But, a HUGE help is to find a print out a guide that tells you suggested settings for what you're welding. You may change a little, but it'll get you in the ballpark.

Honestly, and others (who are better than me at this) may disagree, it's MUCH more of an art than a science. Sure, the analyzation of it is all science. But, actually DOING it is pure art. You have to picture the finished product in your mind, then translate that to your hands.

Oh, another thing that helps me a LOT is to practice right before I weld something. I've found that, because I weld once every blue moon, I get out of practice. If I start welding what I want to weld, I get in the rhythm just about 1" from the finish, while most of the weld looks like bird poop. But, if I waste some time and wire running a few beads on a similar thickness of metal before working on the real piece, I get much better welds once I actually start.

Finally, if it's something important, I take it to a pro. On my car, I've welded my side mirror mounts, my camera mount, and a few other things that don't matter. But, when I needed custom front LCAs made, I didn't even try. I just brought them to my friend (pro welder) to TIG and make.

[NU_BLUE]

Yeah, thanks for the replies. I'm not real interested in getting to a "pro" level (though that would be cool...). I'm more interested in just doing it for myself. I figure its just another step with regards to working on cars. I've welded a few a simple parts on the Camaro, like the swaybar mounts, but I'd never do anything much beyond that, yet. It'd be cool to be able to weld up exhausts, etc. I'll have to start doing some reading and see if I can get my hands on a MIG.

[robz71lm7]

BTW, all of our TIG welding at the plant is scratch start w/o remote amperage control, so don't let people tell you that you need the latest top of the line inverter machine to TIG weld. (Just a pet peeve of mine)

Some good points here- but you're not going to make welds per D17.1 specs without high-frequency-start and remote amperage control. If your goal is learning how to TIG weld aluminum to aerospace specs, then you must have remote amperage control. Proper starts and stops on any material require remote amperage control. Since 99% of the people welding today are not working even close to aerospace specs, scratch start without remote amperage control is good enough. You don't have to buy an inverter in order to have remote amperage control and high-frequency-start; these are common parts of 99% of the TIG welding machines on the market.

Your comment about inverter technology is true. The Miller Dynasty is the best readily-available TIG welder on the market, but you must have expert-level-knowledge of welding in order to take advantage of it's abilities. Throwing down $6,000 to $10,000 on a Dynasty is useless for novices and most welding professionals. Once you learn what a Dynasty can do, everything else is garbage.

I agree with everything you've said above, but will take exception to this:

Proper starts and stops on any material require remote amperage control.

Nice but not necessary, unless you meant that in reference to D17.1 as well. I'm not familar with D17.1. I'm just a power plant guy.

I think we're both saying the same thing I used the extreme of bare-bones tig welding with any CC power source to contrast a Dynasty and show that "It's the violinist, not the violin." A good welder can make high quality welds without a fancy machine. Now for aluminum yeah you're going to need an actual tig machine, but the novice needn't concern himself with fine tuning wave forms, balance, pulsed tig, etc. A used transformer machine like a Syncrowave or Precision Tig can be found quite cheeply now that many are upgrading to inverters. IF you have a power supply that can feed a big transformer machine. Wouldn't it be cool if we got an energy-savings tax credit for inverters?

Disclaimer: I only work with ASME Sec I, Sec VIII, Sec IX, B31.1. , B31.3, NBIC, and D1.1.

[trackbird]

Yeah, thanks for the replies. I'm not real interested in getting to a "pro" level (though that would be cool...). I'm more interested in just doing it for myself. I figure its just another step with regards to working on cars. I've welded a few a simple parts on the Camaro, like the swaybar mounts, but I'd never do anything much beyond that, yet. It'd be cool to be able to weld up exhausts, etc. I'll have to start doing some reading and see if I can get my hands on a MIG.

Exhaust is "easy"...it's easy because it's not structural. If a muffler weld fails it's generally no big deal (assuming it doesn't fly off and go through someones window). A sway bar mount is far more critical.

As for Migs, go look at the Hobart line of Mig welders. Miller and Lincoln build machines to a higher standard and have some really nice stuff, but the Hobart line is filled with good to very good quality welders for fairly reasonable prices. I have a Hobart Handler 210 amp Mig and it's been outstanding. I also have a used Lincoln Squarewave Tig 175 that I found a good deal on and it's a great welder, but I'm still learning to make use of it's capabilities (I'm a Tig "owner" not a Tig "welder" right now).

[00 Trans Ram]

Oh, also - check Craigslist for used machines close to you. I got my Miller (I think it's a "Miller 140") used, with perhaps 2 hours of welding on it. It was something like $600 new. I got it for about $200 or so. Other than checking for basic cleanliness and obvious damage, I don't know what to look for. Perhaps some other can help?

[StanIROCZ]

I got my Miller 320 TIG for $875 off ebay 4 years ago. It is old, big, heavy, and way more machine than I need (250 amps), but it was cheap and works better than I can work it.


Re: remote amp control
I'd think the good welds would be equally as good for either, but I think it would be a lot harder to get consistently good welds without it. One example is at the end of a part the amps need to be turned down to keep it from getting to hot. If your butt welding pipe this wouldn't matter.

[mitchntx]

There is no one more frugal (cheap) than me.

But it has become grossly obvious to me that with a welder, you really do get exactly what you pay for. It wasn't until I got my new welder that this became obvious.

Hobart welders will definitely weld metal. But the Miller 135 I had was a lot easier to use than the old Hobart I used a long time ago. And this new Miller 212 is light years ahead of my old Miller 135.

Its hard to explain and even harder to justify the expense till you've made the transition.

[trackbird]

I fully agree Mitch. I wasn't slighting the nicer machines (I'm lusting after the one you bought, or the 250 amp big brother) as much as stating that the Hobarts are quite good and win the dollar per amp contest while being very respectable. If a Miller or Lincoln is in your budget when you go shopping, buy one with complete confidence that you're buying a nice machine. If your budget leaves you picking between a 140 amp or smaller (110v) Miller/Lincoln or a 175+ amp (220v) Hobart, I'd take the extra power and buy the Hobart (assuming you have 220v available).

If your budget fits a 175+ amp Miller/Lincoln buy one and never look back. You do get what you pay for...if you can afford it. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (Still saving my pennies to buy a Miller Mig and lusting after a nice Synchrowave tig).

[00 Trans Ram]

Anyone have advice on a used unit? Are these the types of things that you should always buy new? Or, can a good used one be worth it?