[Pablo]

Hello all,
I have been lurking for some time and wanted to introduce myself. I'm an aircraft mechanic living in so cal coming from the drag racing scene. Being originally from south florida, there was essentially no attraction to good handling for me since every road in basically the whole state of florida is straight and flat.
In the past 8 years of living in California I have seen what I can only say is the death of drag racing through track closures, police harassment, etc. This in addition to the magnificent twisties around here has built an itch for me to get into the road racing/ autox scene. It didn't help when a buddy of mine was able to regularly get me a ridiculous amount of free track time at a shall be un-named go kart track. Chasing faster lap times is extremely addicting. Couple this with going for canyon runs in his gutted E36 bmw, and I was hooked.

I previously owned an 89 Firebird from 97-04. It was basically set up for drag. I was very heavy into thirdgens for that time period. That car ended up meeting it's end when I moved on to an 86 T-type which I still own. (It's run as quick as a 7.0@95 mph, 1.54 60' in the 1/8th and should be substantially quicker when I get a working transmission under it).
Even after all these years I still missed my thirdgen, so I decided to go out and buy one. After putting out some feelers, I found a 91 Z28 LB9/T5 hardtop (rear drums (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) ) that was pretty rough. I managed to get it home with what felt like 75 hp. After repairing countless atrocities committed by previous owners I now have it running pretty well. Feels like stock with the "upgraded" 2 1/4" kink bent exhaust that some retard put on it. It's my daily driver now, knocked down almost 25 mpg last tank. Unfortunately it still looks like hell. I'll be painting it myself soon.

Anyway, plans for the car are to build it to either STX, STU, or ESP. I am still debating this. In the meantime here is what I have sitting on the shelf waiting for install; complete poly bushing set (will not do both lca ends in poly) MOOG 5664/5665 springs, AC delete heater box (already have the pulley installed), Koni Yellows (on backorder), lt1 ministarter, GTA crosslace wheels (will go with something else later), G.W. Tracklink (left over from the old car, still researching if the short arm is a good idea for what I am doing), 82-83 factory fiberglass z28 hood, hooker headers + 3" y pipe, T-top/vert door shim strikers.

I plan on cutting the springs half coil or so in the front which from what I understand will bump me into the low 800s spring rate wise. To help compensate for the roll center and camber curve issues this creates I'm looking into some taller ball joints (will post about this in the susp. forum). Rear springs will be cut as well. I'll probably start at 3/4 coil for those.
I would love to run a weight jack setup but I wanted to get my feet wet cheaply and quickly.

I'll probably look into some LCA RBs and a panhard relocation setup soon.

Right now I just want to get it to where I can go out and tear up some tires. As it sits, the shocks are so blown that I can induce violent wheel hop (on the front wheels!) with aggressive driving. So I'm taking it easy.

I'll also be applying some of my composites training to the car- I have some ideas (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

And yes, from what I've read, some of these mods are probably not technically legal in stx/stu but I think I can fly under the radar locally (don't snitch on me). I would mostly like to be in a challenging class. In judging from local results for ESP, there are basically no competitors in that class or F stock. STX isn't very good either but a lot better. STU has a ton of competitors.
I thrive on competition, I'd rather be dead last in STU with a bunch of other drivers than first in an ESP class with only one or two other drivers.

Anyway, sorry for the book. Check my post on the susp. forum for my ball joint q.
Here are some picts of the cars. The camaro looks slightly nicer now that I've touched up the bare metal the previous owner left from his "paint prep" job.


Buick:
(IMG:http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/Chewbaccathedog/Barona/_MG_7630.jpg)
(IMG:http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/Chewbaccathedog/eng-1.jpg)


Camaro
(IMG:http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/Chewbaccathedog/IMG_0710.jpg)

[firehawkclone]

Very cool, it would be insane to see a AIX 3rd gen!

[CMC #37]

For sure, agree with John! Nice improvements Pablo!

[CrashTestDummy]

Welcome to CP! Wow, nice work with the minitubs. Any more information on their construction would be greatly appreciated. I'm thinking of going that route so I can get more tire under our Firebird. Did you build those tubs yourself, or find a set somewhere? How much did you cut away underneath?

And what wheels are those? Do the fronts fit around the tie rod end, or do the wheels stick out more? It doesn't look like you've made any mods to the front fenders, have you? Thanks.

This post has been edited by CrashTestDummy: Dec 7 2010, 04:44 PM

[Phil]

Do the fronts fit around the tie rod end, or do the wheels stick out more? It doesn't look like you've made any mods to the front fenders, have you? Thanks.

i would like to know too,

[Pablo]

I don't see myself doing any wheel to wheel racing any time soon. I might work up to that, but for now I don't think I could afford it. I would be devastated if I smashed the car up and threw away the hours and hours of labor I have into it. Plus, I see this time attack thing becoming the new drag racing. I like to do grudge match stuff with import guys that think american cars cant handle. Fortunately we have a weekly time attack session here in riverside, CA every tues. night where I have the opportunity to educate these people.

The mini tubs are a custom deal made by a friend of mine, he cut the shape and put the Pittsburgh lock, and then I had to cut them to size and assemble them. Wolfe racecraft makes a set of minitubs for a 4thgen that will fit the thirdgen. A guy on TGO just installed some into his formula.

The minitub job is not for the faint of heart. I spent a monumental amount of time cutting and fitting everything. You have to go to a 2.5 inch coil over type spring and weld in an adjustable spring mount at the top. After that was done I welded in some thick 5/16" x 4" wide plates on both sides of the springs connecting the rear of the "frame rail" to the front of the "frame rail". They are really just very flimsy box sections.

After that was done, I had to mount bumpstops so I managed to cut off the hat and stud from my koni yellows. The piston is threaded at the top so I got a nut the same size and a very large heavy washer and welded the washer to the nut. I then welded the stud to the top of the nut. Put on a shock mounted bump stop and screwed the deal back together. Before I did this I drove the car with zip ties on the pistons to see how much travel I had to ensure the bumpstops were at the right height. I had to add a spacer under the bumpstop to get it where I wanted it.

Once that was said and done I had to make some alum. lcas taking full advantage of CP rule allowances for wheelbase which worked out because the upper spring mount is actually forward of the spring mount on the axle in stock config. So when you go to a smaller dia. spring, the angle becomes pretty ugly. Luckily the driveshaft has plenty of stickout and allowed me to move things forward for better weight dist, etc.

After that I added the cage with the rear stays welded to plates directly over the spring pocket.
(IMHO If you cut all this stuff away, you'll realize that this is actually the best place to put your rear stays as opposed to the front of the shock mount area. The shock mount is kind of like part of a cantilever beam starting at where the box section around the shock curves horizontal. Its like a full moment connection. Like a flag pole connected horizontally to a building, imagine the shock pushing upward right next to the connection, and another force a few inches out pushing up as well. So I put it over the spring pocket because I felt it was better to be on the horizontal which would still control movement at the shock area. But I digress)

Lots of cutting, grinding, and welding. I suggest you wear a respirator unless you want to fill your lungs with steel dust.

The wheels are CCW Classics - race version

To get the 17x11s to fit up front I'm running a total of 5.5" of backspacing. This is probably the max you can go. If you wanted to get it as close as possible you might be able to get 5.75" but that is pushing it. My problem is the shock body. The tie rod is close but CCWs have a shallow lip which would probably allow me to bring it in more (with some slight clearancing to the tie rod end) . Unfortunately I can't do much about the shock body and i am about half an inch away from hitting it.
As it stands the front wheels stick out slightly and I had to cut away the 91-92 style gfx that wrap around into the wheel well. I also beat back the fender some on the inside. The front had to have the plastic cut away, some material cut away from the inboard edge of the gfx, and some hammer work to move the inner lip of the fender further forward. You wouldn't be able to tell I did any of this unless you were putting your head down there looking around.

I'm toying with the idea of making some small and inconspicuous fender flares so that I can lower the car a few inches and not have it rub on the upper part of the fender

[CrashTestDummy]

It's good to know the 17"s will clear the tie rod end. I have a set of 11X16s w/5" backspace that hit there and on the strut body. My current wheels are about 3/8" from hitting the strut, but with my Koni's, there's a piece that is welded on the body to support coil-overs, and that's what's in the way, even after some cutting.

17" or 18" wheels will fit a lot better, I'm still contemplating both.

Thanks for the info. I'm not sure I'll go that deep with the minitubs, and simply squaring off the wheel well will help out a LOT back there. I haven't cut anything yet, still in the 'looking and sizing' stage.

[trackbird]

After that I added the cage with the rear stays welded to plates directly over the spring pocket.
(IMHO If you cut all this stuff away, you'll realize that this is actually the best place to put your rear stays as opposed to the front of the shock mount area. The shock mount is kind of like part of a cantilever beam starting at where the box section around the shock curves horizontal. Its like a full moment connection. Like a flag pole connected horizontally to a building, imagine the shock pushing upward right next to the connection, and another force a few inches out pushing up as well. So I put it over the spring pocket because I felt it was better to be on the horizontal which would still control movement at the shock area. But I digress)

I like the concept of mounting the rear floor plates over the rear springs (that's how we did the first 3rd gen we put a cage in). However, if you are going to add some braces for stiffening the cage (from the bottom of the main hoop to the rear mounts), you have to wrap them over the shock mounts (like I did). On the other hand, there's enough cage in my car that I don't think the rear mounting location is going to make much impact on the way the cage holds up in a hard impact (which I hope to never test). And that allows the cage to strengthen the rear shock mount by reinforcing it. But either approach can work and there's about a million ways to build these things.

Very nice work on the mini tubs!!!

[Doug Phillips]

FWIW I have a set of Ronal 17x9.5 rims for sale.