Daydreaming, Diesel, help my project car in my mind Options

[SuperMacGuy]

So ever since seeing the Audis and Peugeots in ALMS have such success with diesel engines, I have been daydreaming about some diesel powered project car. I really can not afford one now, nor even have a garage big enough to undertake it myself. So guys (and gals?) please indulge me and help me out with some ideas. Let's dream it!

So, how awesome could a 4th Gen Trans Am be, for Autocross, daily driving, and some HDPE events (this is what **I** would do with it to start, no road racing just yet)?!
There are axles we can put in it that will handle 700lb feet of torque, like truck axles. Would any reasonably fit? What GM axles would do the trick? 12 bolts of course, or 14 bolt?
I'm sure we can find or make an axle that can handle 700lb ft.
TransZilla makes a T56 they claim can handle 1200 hp, so I'd imagine the torque would be no problem either.
And for the engine, some Cummins engines I've seen rated are around 650lb ft. for some 6-ish liter engines. GM Diesels (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Duramax_engine) like the LMM, LMK, LML, LGH series look promising, and clean.
I know that they will probably be a lot heavier than an LS series alum block, but how much more?
At first I thought maybe to gear it low for crazy acceleration, but then I thought maybe the current gear ratios, for at least 1,2,3 would be more than enough for some really great pickup on an AX course. Sometimes at our smaller courses I stay in 2nd but I'm down at 2000 rpm after a turn. With 2x the torque, acceleration out of a turn should be fantastic. We could change the gear ratios on 4,5,6 to have a really good top speed for the track.

OK So what are anyone else's thoughts? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[1qwikbird]

So ever since seeing the Audis and Peugeots in ALMS have such success with diesel engines, I have been daydreaming about some diesel powered project car. I really can not afford one now, nor even have a garage big enough to undertake it myself. So guys (and gals?) please indulge me and help me out with some ideas. Let's dream it!

So, how awesome could a 4th Gen Trans Am be, for Autocross, daily driving, and some HDPE events (this is what **I** would do with it to start, no road racing just yet)?!
There are axles we can put in it that will handle 700lb feet of torque, like truck axles. Would any reasonably fit? What GM axles would do the trick? 12 bolts of course, or 14 bolt?
I'm sure we can find or make an axle that can handle 700lb ft.
TransZilla makes a T56 they claim can handle 1200 hp, so I'd imagine the torque would be no problem either.
And for the engine, some Cummins engines I've seen rated are around 650lb ft. for some 6-ish liter engines. GM Diesels (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Duramax_engine) like the LMM, LMK, LML, LGH series look promising, and clean.
I know that they will probably be a lot heavier than an LS series alum block, but how much more?
At first I thought maybe to gear it low for crazy acceleration, but then I thought maybe the current gear ratios, for at least 1,2,3 would be more than enough for some really great pickup on an AX course. Sometimes at our smaller courses I stay in 2nd but I'm down at 2000 rpm after a turn. With 2x the torque, acceleration out of a turn should be fantastic. We could change the gear ratios on 4,5,6 to have a really good top speed for the track.

OK So what are anyone else's thoughts? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I couldn't imagine trying to hang 5.9L cummins from my dodge on the nose of my Firechicken. You think the factory hubs are problematic now? I don't think the Cummins would a be a good jumping off point, just based on packaging and weight. Maybe the duramax would be better suited because of the V layout and aluminum heads (I think), but overall engine height could still be a problem. And weight bias would go completely out the window with a 5.9L cummins.

[1qwikbird]

here's a link to a 70 Monte Carlo with a 24v swapped in.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO_kjaxIDzc



The duramax is much more popular swap into older iron than the cummins, probably because of the packaging...

[SuperMacGuy]

here's a link to a 70 Monte Carlo with a 24v swapped in.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO_kjaxIDzc
The duramax is much more popular swap into older iron than the cummins, probably because of the packaging...

That is simultaneously silly and goosebump inducing. I was looking at some of the other diesel swaps on y'tube.
Maybe I choose the 5.9L from this list. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Ram#Engines_3
Anywhere to get engine weights?

This post has been edited by SuperMacGuy: Jan 21 2011, 02:29 AM

[PeteL]

I know that they will probably be a lot heavier than an LS series alum block, but how much more?

If I remember correctly a B series Cummins is in the neighborhood of 1100 #. So yeah a smidge heavier. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[CrashTestDummy]

A 9" would probably hold. Unless you're running slicks, you'll be spinning the tires a lot anyway.

The Duramax or PowerStroke would probably be about the best bet. I think they are a bit lighter than the Cummins, and, as has been pointed out, in a vee pattern, so packaging would be a bit better. I haven't looked much at a PS, but the Duramax is a bit tall, so I'd suspect that you'll need at least a cowl hood, and maybe have to relocate the turbo out in front of the engine to get everything to sit right. The exhaust manifolds should at least allow for a bolt-up of the exhaust, but not sure what kind of angles you'll have to do after that.

But yeah, the car will be heavy, you'll probably put the batteries back in the back, as well as a few spare front hubs, for ballast. ;-)

[trackbird]

A power stroke (7.3) is 900 lbs and "huge". We swapped one in a 2001 F250 and I had it on a skid in the back of my truck for a few days. It's not likely to fit under the hood of an F-body, and the 15 quart oil pan is not likely to clear "anything" like our K members. We had a struggle getting one into a 2001 F250 (it's so tall, it hits the cowl when you lift it off the mounts and that was with the nose off of the truck). I'd look at a TDI from VW or something similar. Maybe something from the Toureg? (or BMW, the diesel that was in the Jeep Liberty for a year or two, etc).

[StanIROCZ]

There are axles we can put in it that will handle 700lb feet of torque, like truck axles. Would any reasonably fit? What GM axles would do the trick? 12 bolts of course, or 14 bolt?
I'm sure we can find or make an axle that can handle 700lb ft.

The axle won’t be as much as a problem as everything from the flywheel to the pinion since you’ll likely want to put a 2.73 or lower numeric gear in it to have any sort of top speed. With the larger pinion and greater number of teeth gear life won’t be as much of a problem and the axle torque will be reduced due to the ratio. Not saying the 10 bolt will live though (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) With the diesel you’re basically transmitting power via higher torque and lower speed, which is bad for driveline sizing. Once it gets to the 2.73 gear the torque gets equalized’ into what the more typical f-body would have with a gas engine.

You won’t be pulling a trailer or have 1/2 of the GVW that your typical diesel truck has, so that will greatly reduce your driveline demands as compared to that truck. Also tire OD is less.

The Touareg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Touareg had a 4.9 L V10 turbo with 309 HP and 553 ft-lbs, and it looks like the later vehicle had more torque. It might not weigh near as much as the truck engines.

[SuperMacGuy]

I was trying to find some weight specs on the Toureg v10, but from some pictures it still looks really big, especially with all the exhaust fanciness. Huge transmission too. The later model has around 650 foot pounds. :-D Anyone have the weight of a stock LS1 handy?

[Todd]

The Touareg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Touareg had a 4.9 L V10 turbo with 309 HP and 553 ft-lbs, and it looks like the later vehicle had more torque. It might not weigh near as much as the truck engines.

The current diesel in the Toureg is a V6. They get pretty good mpg for hauling around a tanker. A friend of mine has a 2010 model and it gets about 32-33 mixed driving.

[Steve91T]

The new BMW diesel engine would be great. Diesel technology is really taking off. I have a 7.3 powerstroke. I love the engine, in my truck, wouldn't want it in my Camaro.

It would be expensive, but like I said, the BMW diesel would be perfect. My dad rented one and was blown away by it.

Steve

[SuperMacGuy]

Hm that's a good option I hadn't heard of, although I did see the BMW commericial during that big football game no one is allowed to mention.