[rpoz-29]

Anyone here have any experience with Amsoil products? I'm a little curious about their PS fluid, and motor oil.

[trackbird]

Oh and Kevin, Amsoil was the first synthetic even though I know M1 has been doing it a long time. I also believe M1 uses a petroleum base-stock in their synthetic oils. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Yup. They engineer "designer" synthetic oil from a base stock that was originally real oil. I'm with Sean, I don't care as long as it works.

[Sam Strano]

Personally if I'm running a synthetic, I want a synthetic.....

Things that are "engineered" are still organic bases with a lot of additives in them. Highly refined, yes, but still carbon based.

The whole idea with synthetics is the oil stretches like a plastic bag does when sheered. That's instead of tearing like a paper bag does. Oil works the same way. And I've personally witnessed Mobil 1 filled cars spin bearings when completely topped up with oil. That, among other things that I've seen tells me the bearing film isn't offering protection when you need it.

Frankly, with the standards now, even "junk" oil is fine for normal driving. But I'm not a normal driver, the G's, the sloshing, the high RPM, the heat. If you aren't going to have a problem then any oil, be it Mobil 1, or $.99/quart Mobil junk will be fine. The proof is when something happens like Sean had.

And FWIW, Exxon/Mobil can kiss my ass.

[robz71lm7]

I completely agree Rob, but I really use those to determine what I feel comfortable putting in my car, and then turning around and getting an oil analysis done on it to see how it works.

Oh and Kevin, Amsoil was the first synthetic even though I know M1 has been doing it a long time. I also believe M1 uses a petroleum base-stock in their synthetic oils. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Actually, Amsoil has also played the group III base stock "synthetic" labeling game in some of their line. Mobil as hated as it is by some is just about the only over the counter oil that hasn't done so. Mobil has always been group IV unless something has changed recently. I know at one point it was a pao/ester (group V) blend but I beleive that has changed.


I really don't care though, the german made (not us) Castrol in my car works well. It was analyzed by Terry Dyson who has extensive experience with racing engines and has worked with NASCAR teams IIRC. (You can opt for Terry through Blackstone Labs). Unfortunately I lost the report he did on my car. But he approved of me running the oil for approx 200 autocross runs plus a certain amount of street mileage per change. Mobil 1 didn't perform awfully, but it didn't reach this level.

[Crazy Canuck]

And FWIW, Exxon/Mobil can kiss my ass.

Wanna share some of the story ??? :intrigued:

[Spooner]

Rob,

Are you using the green or the gold German stuff?

Edit: Why this is related: Castrol switched formulations a while ago on its German 0w30 and people are still debating whether the new (gold) is better than the old (green colored) stuff. If it's not as good, then it'll be time to switch to something else, be it Amsoil, Redline or another...

Pimpmaro: What version of Amsoil would you recommend, given that our cars seem to run best with a 40-weight or near 40-weight.

-John

This post has been edited by Spooner: Jun 8 2006, 02:33 PM

[sgarnett]

Personally if I'm running a synthetic, I want a synthetic.....

Things that are "engineered" are still organic bases with a lot of additives in them. Highly refined, yes, but still carbon based.

To clarify, I'm not certainly not saying that they are all the same, only that I don't have any philosophical qualms about how a good synthetic oil is made if the result is good.

Per the Mobil/Castrol lawsuit, Group III oils can legally be sold as synthetic, but it may be more reasonable to call them highly refined rather than synthetic. I don't have much or any experience with these as far as i know.

Group IV oils (PAOs) are actually synthetic, but the raw material still comes from oil. They may not be the best available, but they are (in my experience) a lot better than "conventional" oils. Mobil One is an example.

Group V oils (the esters) are also organic in origin and made from chains of carbon and hydrogen, just not from "fossil" sources. Whether that is sufficent to call them "hydrocarbons" I do not know. As far as I know, the main "pure" Group V oils are Redline, Motul, and Amsoil.

Most of my "stress testing" of synthetic predated the Group III oils as far as I know, so they were probably Group IV at the time (though at least one is now a Group III). Personally, I suspect that the MAIN problem with Mobil One is that the established specs are wide and Mobil tends to run at the thin end (which is probably what the OEMs want for gas mileage). In other words, you might want to select a thicker nominal grade from M1 to get the same actual viscosity as a thinner nominal grade of some other oil. Is that a marketing problem? Sure. Is it a technical problem? Maybe not, if you select is based on the data sheets instead of by the label (and in fact, I also use the Redline datasheets instead of the labels).

Are the Group Vs better under extreme conditions? Maybe, at least today, and it's cheap insurance for the car I race, so it gets Redline. Given the amount of oil it consumes, and that fact that it has run sythetic all along and should be fairly clean inside except for the carbonized combustion chambers, a Group V is probably also the best choice for keeping it clean.

This post has been edited by sgarnett: Jun 8 2006, 03:11 PM

[robz71lm7]

Rob,

Are you using the green or the gold German stuff?

Edit: Why this is related: Castrol switched formulations a while ago on its German 0w30 and people are still debating whether the new (gold) is better than the old (green colored) stuff. If it's not as good, then it'll be time to switch to something else, be it Amsoil, Redline or another...

Pimpmaro: What version of Amsoil would you recommend, given that our cars seem to run best with a 40-weight or near 40-weight.

-John

My analysis was of the old green German stuff. I just switched to gold. I've seen similar results from the gold formula so I don't see anything wrong with running it. I may take an early sample this summer to check it back out.

[robz71lm7]

Personally if I'm running a synthetic, I want a synthetic.....

Things that are "engineered" are still organic bases with a lot of additives in them. Highly refined, yes, but still carbon based.

To clarify, I'm not certainly not saying that they are all the same, only that I don't have any philosophical qualms about how a good synthetic oil is made if the result is good.

Per the Mobil/Castrol lawsuit, Group III oils can legally be sold as synthetic, but it may be more reasonable to call them highly refined rather than synthetic. I don't have much or any experience with these as far as i know.

And the funny thing is despite what some are saying in this thread Mobil's base stock is a true synthetic (PAO). I agree on the viscosity it is slightly thin for a 30 weight, but it doesn't thin out over time as much as the conventional oils (Tri-syn did some but SuperSyn is better). I think it gets a bad rap because some people run it at too high an oil temp for it's viscosity and/or have oiling issues and want to blame the oil.

Of course Redline is going to be a better oil for racing-that is what it's designed for. It is group V base oil and is LOADED with moly and other additives and costs a lot more than Mobil 1 where I live. So it's really comparing apples to oranges. Run Mobil 1 10w30 on a road course or in an environment it's not suited for and it's your own fault.

When I had a two driver car I ran Mobil 1 Delvac 5w40 (diesel engine oil) to deal with the higher temps. I run german castrol again now and I look for a filter with a good balance of flow and filtration.

[nape]

I took a little bit of time to read up on GC today and it looks like good stuff but I've grown up on old school oil ways (10w40 summer, 10w30 winter, go up viscosity on an old motor, etc). My dad scoffed at the idea when I put the recommended 5w30 (I used plain old Castrol) in it for the last oil change in the tow van, "That's way too light!". (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Would GC work well in a tow rig (Ford 4.6L E-150)? Everything I've read points that it should be fine, but I figure asking the gurus can't hurt.

[robz71lm7]

From what I can dig up evidently Redline is a PAO/Ester blend, but I nor can anyone else on bobistheoilguy determine how much is ester and how much is pao.

I took a little bit of time to read up on GC today and it looks like good stuff but I've grown up on old school oil ways (10w40 summer, 10w30 winter, go up viscosity on an old motor, etc). My dad scoffed at the idea when I put the recommended 5w30 (I used plain old Castrol) in it for the last oil change in the tow van, "That's way too light!".

Would GC work well in a tow rig (Ford 4.6L E-150)? Everything I've read points that it should be fine, but I figure asking the gurus can't hurt.

I'm not a guru by any mean but:

With a quality oil like GC the 0w30 spread is no big deal. It's actually almost a 40 weight at operating temp IIRC. It would probably be a fine oil for that application. Where you get into trouble with a large spread like 5w30 or 10w40 with conventional oils is you have to add a lot of viscosity index improvers. These oils are more prone to thinning out with use unlike a 10w30. You may start out with 5w30 and end up with 5w20.

www.bobistheoilguy.com

[sgarnett]

Interesting ... Redline doesn't claim to use only Group V (ester) base stocks. They only claim that their oil contains ester stock.

[LT4Firehawk]

I also used to have an old Subaru with valves that would clatter for the first 20 seconds after the first start of the morning running dino. I could hear the exact moment when the oil reached them (or possibly the hydraulic lifters, if it had them). With synthetic (M1, I think), I never heard them at all.

My LT4 does that on M1, wonder if switching to Amsoil/Redline would help with that?

[Racer X]

My LT4 does that on M1, wonder if switching to Amsoil/Redline would help with that?

I ran M1 in my LT1 from the first change at 1400 miles to around 98K miles. It always had a bit of clatter at all temps and some piston slap when cold. Never really gave it much thought since I got pretty good oil analysis results with M1.

I then changed to Redline (same viscosity - 5W30). ALL clatter and slap ceased.

I have no tech beyond my personal experience. The damn engine is quieter now at 107,000 miles than it was at 107 miles.

FWIW I still run M1 in my truck and the wife's GTP. These vehicles see too many miles for me to justify using mail order oil in them. Oil analysis results look just fine and neither one of them gets driven near as hard as my car anyway. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)