New 4th Gen Front Wheel Hubs/Bearings, New front hub & bearing design from Hoosier Performance Engineerin Options

[GNC Rick]

Have these started shipping ? They look awesome & looking forward to some feedback from members here after they get them or try them out.

[FASTFATBOY]

Did firm pricing ever come out?

[93FirehawkTA]

Hey guys. Sorry I've been out of touch recently. Traveled to Oregon and Texas last week and getting caught up on somethings this week, now the 4th is here. I wanted to let you know that I ordered 100 assembles from our machine shop last Friday (will make 50 pairs of hubs). They have promised to have them machined and plated by the end of the first week of August. So we should be shipping assemblies by the second week of August. We will be setting up a PayPal account for the business in the next couple of weeks and will accept orders at the end of July.

John,

Please update us on your production status.

Thanks,
Ilario

[HoosierPE]

Hey Guys, sorry I haven't been keeping up with the posting. It's been a rough 3 or 4 weeks that started with a kidney stone and surgery 4 days later (wasn't on my bucket list and don't ever want one again), followed up with the passing of my father and we just admitted my mother to the hospital this week. When my luck breaks, I'm going to buy a bunch of lottery tickets... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Sorry, back to the front hubs. I put a hold on the model shop order mid-July, just before they ordered all of the material. A few questions came up relative to heat treatment on the spindle/pin that I wanted to follow up on. Basically trying to dot all of our I's and cross all of our T's to make sure these things are absolutely bullet proof. We consulted with two more materials experts to get their input and feel we have covered everything. We kicked the machine shop back off last week and the raw materials arrived this week on Thursday. (I'll try to post a picture of all the material for 100 assemblies, its a lot of steel.)

The spindle will still be made from the 4140 material, but will received a full heat treat and then case hardening to achieve the desired fatigue strength. For ease of assembly and maintenance, we left a small slip-fit between the spindle and the inner race of the bearings. Timken's design manual does recommend a press-fit designs with rotating spindle shafts, which ours is, but we thought we would give it a try first with the slip-fit. With the slip-fit, the bearings were walking around the shaft a bit and showing some signs of wear. We have updated the design per the Timken recommendations and the bearings will now be pressed onto the spindle, similar to the pinion shafts in many differentials. We are also adding a solid spacer with shims between the bearings' inner races to further enhance the design and lock all the parts in place. Placing the spindle in tension with the use of the bearing spacer will also enhance the fatigue strength of the assembly.

The shop will start on the parts next week and we should have them back to us around the 3rd week of September. Assembly and shipping should take place the last week of September. I will post specifics for ordering in a few weeks. Pricing is $650 each, $1300 for set of two.

[93FirehawkTA]

Very sorry for your loss and troubles John. I've been in similar circumstances. Take care of yourself and family and when convenient let us know when/how to order.

[StanIROCZ]

John sent me some of the design details of this hub unit so I could do a bearing life analysis.

I started by creating a duty cycle. This duty cycle is far from being perfect or actual. It is very simplified estimation of the loading and cycles that this hub unit will see on a car. After creating the duty cycle I made some assumptions for the vehicle and started calculating the dynamic corner weights at each wheel and the braking and cornering forces at the contact patch. Then calculated the loads and moments along the shaft axis at the wheel center. Plugged that data along with the duration (cycles) at each load case into my bearing calculation software. Add up the damage at each load case to get the cumulative damage and calculate the reliability. I can go into more detail if necessary.

(IMG:http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o33/StanIROCZ/4th%20gen%20hubs/HPE_Bearing_life_calc_zpse78ff978.jpg)

(IMG:http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o33/StanIROCZ/4th%20gen%20hubs/125_trail_brake_zps3696ff76.jpg)

(IMG:http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o33/StanIROCZ/4th%20gen%20hubs/Inner_contact_stress_125_trail_brake_zps589346cb.jpg)
Inner bearing, roller contact stress, 1.25G trail braking

(IMG:http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o33/StanIROCZ/4th%20gen%20hubs/Outer_contact_stress_125_trail_brake_zps23292a38.jpg)
Outer Bearing, roller contact stress, 1.25G trail braking

The short story is the damage is low and as a result the reliability is high. As you could probably guess even without doing these calculations that putting larger taper roller bearings in place of smaller ball bearings is going to result in longer life.


The small text:
Many assumptions were made and there might be mistakes in the analysis. No warranty expressed or implied. Use at your own risk. yada yada

[matt f]

While my car was up on jacks the other day, I noticed a little play in the front end. Seems like hubs.

How's this going?

[HoosierPE]

Hey Matt,

The first 100 pieces are nearly completed at the machine shop. They got behind on my and it's cost us several weeks. The wheel mounting flanges and spindle pins are done and off to to be plated. The bearing housing is going through the final CNC milling process to square them off and add the tapped mounting holes. Unfortunately, I we are still a week or two away from final assembly.

I've been waiting to post anything until I knew for certain when I would have the parts in hand. As soon as I have all the parts in hand, hopefully by the end of next week, I will post the details for ordering sets of these. Right now, we will only be accepting credit cards purchases, but that may change in the future.

Thanks for the inquiry.

John

[HoosierPE]

Happy New Year everyone!

Sorry I haven't provided any updates on the hub project in a while, but I've been wanting to wait until I had good news, like they are ready to ship. Unfortunately, that is not the case. We experienced lengthy delays in the machining, heat treat and plating process. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif) I do have all of the piece parts in hand for the 100 assemblies, but I'm very unhappy with the quality of the plating finished appearance. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) It was very dull, blotchy and streaky, definitely not the appearance of a quality part. They may be going back to the plater to be stripped and replated with a different process. And this may add several weeks to the timeline.

One good piece of news; I did find a source for new ABS sensor caps. So the new hubs will ship with new ABS caps and will be ready to install, right out of the box. No need to remove and clean your old sensor cap.

Stay tuned, I'm hopeful that I'm a few weeks away from providing the good news.

John

[trackbird]

Nice work John! The ABS caps will be a nice addition. Sorry about the plating work...I never liked dealing with that stuff when I was building and selling the brake conversion brackets (once upon a time). Sounds like there is light at the end of the tunnel. Glad you're nearing the end.

[HoosierPE]

Finally! All the parts are in and we are now in the assembly process for the 4th Gen and C4 front hubs. If you would like a set, send me a note or give us a call at Hoosier Performance Engineering: (260) 245-0352. Price is $650 each, $1300 for a pair, plus shipping. We can also do 1/2-20 screw-in studs for an additional $25 each. Here's a photo of the first set that went out.
(IMG:https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t31/1980010_684756308233996_731427010_o.jpg)
(IMG:https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/t31/1974071_684756744900619_1794988856_o.jpg)
(IMG:https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t31/1492205_684756834900610_7632367_o.jpg)

[97bird]

i am interested !!! PM sent

[Crazy Canuck]

Interested... Pm or email me

[Jacks2000]

I think these are mine. I received them today. They are a nice looking piece. They will be on my A Sedan F-bird at Hallett in two weeks. John has been a great guy to work with.

Jack

[93FirehawkTA]

Interested. Sending PM...

[79T/A]

Nice looking parts. Does the plating offer any corrosion resistance?

[HoosierPE]

Nice looking parts. Does the plating offer any corrosion resistance?

Yes, it is supposed to. Nickel is one of the base materials used before the chrome in the chrome plating process is applied. Chrome itself looks like layers of cornflakes, and is not a continuous surface. It is the material under the chrome that adds the corrosion protection and nickel is one of them. This coating is an electroless nickel plating which provides corrosion protection and a hard surface that wears well. The advantage of this process over electro plating is that you can get a very even coating thickness, even inside holes and around sharp corners. With electro plating, it is very difficult to get adequate plating around the sharp corners or inside holes. The plating thickness on our parts is about 4 ten-thousandths of an inch (0.0004).

[Crazy Canuck]

aren't stock studs 10mm ?
What is the impact of going w/ 12mm or 1/2"-20 ?
Do I simply need new lugnuts or more ?

[ReEntryRacer]

aren't stock studs 10mm ?
What is the impact of going w/ 12mm or 1/2"-20 ?
Do I simply need new lugnuts or more ?

Gotta butt in here... stock studs are 12mm, and 1/2 inch (Ford) studs are just a bit bigger. If you choose the 1/2' ones, the bigger nuts may not clear certain wheel cavities enough to use an impact socket on them. Ask me how I know (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[Jacks2000]

I requested the 1/2" studs to match my 9" rear end studs to avoid any "crew" errors. 12mm are standard.

Jack