98 C5 or 02 FBody Options

[Terp]

A guy at work is selling his bone stock (down to the wagon wheels!) 6 spd 98 C5 with 61K miles. He is asking about what I could sell my car for (02 Formula) so I am considering it. I like having the back seats for kid hauling duty though and am not crazy for the RED color. Anyway, I am wondering if there would be much, if any, performance gained in going to a Vette vs my car with the suspension mods I have (Strano F/R sway bars, Springs, SFCs, Koni 4/4s). I run about a 13 flat in the 1/4, so I figure I'd be losing some straight line acceleration. I am more interested in track days these days anyway. How do base C5s track? Do they wear out expensive parts (like F-bodies and front wheel bearings)? I don't really think I want to get rid of my car - it was the first car I bought myself when I finished school, but if a Vette is that much of a better starting place for a track car it might be worth it. Any thoughts?

[marka]

Howdy,

My thought is that equal prep to equal prep, an fbody sucks big huge donkey balls compared to a c5.

Hell, my ESP car sucks big huge donky balls compared to a stock class c5 z06.

No, I don't know why I run one either.

Mark

[Mojave]

C5 is absolutely worth it. The two biggest problems with C5's are the electronic column locks (they want to lock at random times, can be bypassed before they break) and the TC/ABS module dying (used replacement an option). The wheel bearings, while still sealed and non-rebuildable, are stronger and last longer even with hard abuse. An SS C5Z is absolutely faster than an ESP f-body. The track record for a stock base C5 is a mid-high 12, so the C5 should be very close to your f-body at the strip.

If you can work the swap I would do it.

[trackbird]

I can't add much to what was said already.

Buy the C5...

[BigEnos]

Wow, you'd never know this is an F-body forum! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

I'll have to say I agree with the above. For your stated purpose a C5 will be a much better choice. The ABS/TC module (AKA EBCM) problem isn't that big of a deal. Easy to remove and there's a few places that reman them and fix whatever electrical gremlin they are built with from the factory. I helped a co-worker swap his and it was pretty simple and not that expensive. A new unit (with the same ticking time-bomb) is like a G. I think the reman is only $350 ish with shipping so not that bad.

[Terp]

Wow, thanks for the replies... I asked on here first as I figured I would get the most "FBODY 4 EVER!" responses. A bit surprising. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Guess I'll see if my brother still wants to buy my car, he bugs me about it every couple of weeks.

[CrashTestDummy]

Another issue appears to be the headlight motors. Replacements are in the $300 range, IIRC. I seem to remember one member here trading a C5 in on a vert C6 while visiting the dealer for a replacement motor.

Not wanting to sway your decision, but that C5 is 4 years older than your Fbod. I'd love a Vette, but I'd rather have a C6 if only to get rid of those motorized headlights. Not sure I'd swap any of our Fbodies for it, unless it's my wife's Z28.

[marka]

Howdy,

Wow, thanks for the replies... I asked on here first as I figured I would get the most "FBODY 4 EVER!" responses. A bit surprising. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Guess I'll see if my brother still wants to buy my car, he bugs me about it every couple of weeks.

Honestly, the only thing that would make me offer different advice would be if you had to have the rear seats. Obviously the c5 won't do that.

Otherwise a c5 is better in every way.

Mark

[Terp]

I am looking to have my decision swayed one way or the other. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) The age is a concern, but a C6 isnt really an option. I was thinking my car is getting old actually so a 98 is ancient. This will be a toy for me and replacing our third car, so it cant really cost anything significantly more than I could get for my Formula. If cost wasn't a concern I would probably be driving a Cayman S.

Are wear items (brake pads/rotors, clutch, etc) any more expensive on a Vette? I figure LS1 parts are LS1 parts and shouldn't be any different, but wonder about some of the Corvette specific stuff (if there are any).

I talked to my insurance guy and it would actually be marginally cheaper on the Vette.

Another issue appears to be the headlight motors. Replacements are in the $300 range, IIRC. I seem to remember one member here trading a C5 in on a vert C6 while visiting the dealer for a replacement motor.

Not wanting to sway your decision, but that C5 is 4 years older than your Fbod. I'd love a Vette, but I'd rather have a C6 if only to get rid of those motorized headlights. Not sure I'd swap any of our Fbodies for it, unless it's my wife's Z28.

[00 Trans Ram]

I think that brake rotors (from Autozone, etc.) are actually a few bucks cheaper. Pads are about the same. Same clutches, for the most part.

The old saying was that Vette stuff was more expensive when modifying. But, I'm not so sure nowadays. Plus, you rarely hear about people replacing every suspension component on a Vette like we do in our F-bods.

[sgarnett]

Supposedly the 98 fbody ECM is harder to program or limited compared to later years. I don't know if the same applies to 97 and/or 98 C5s.

My daughter likes riding in the "front" seat of the Miata (even when the top is up) much better than the cave-like, window-less rear seat of the Camaro. The Miata has a front passenger airbag switch, but the Camaro does not. It is very, very rare to have more than 2 people in the Camaro.

I'd go with the Vette, and if necessary, add a passenger airbag switch.

[roy]

<snip>
Supposedly the 98 fbody ECM is harder to program or limited compared to later years. I don't know if the same applies to 97 and/or 98 C5s.

Not harder to tune, and it is only limited if you go speed density on the VE table( less resolution) or if you wanted to go to a Custom OS (which the 97-98 LS1 PCM's can't do). But its fairly easy to upgrade.

[Blainefab]

Piling on here - After my 94Z28 went to ITE/AIX track only, I bought a 99C5 FRC new, and autocrossed it heavily till the warranty was up, then started tracking it - I was instructing with several different clubs. The Camaro was being developed intensively, finally won a SCCA regional championship with it in 2003. Description of the Camaro is here: http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?showtopic=13432

The Camaro was faster than the Vette on track only in its final season after all the development.

I left the Vette bone stock, cept for Bilstein shocks, tires and brake pads and a careful alignment. I used the same wheels/tires/brakes as the Camaro so it got hand-me-down consumables.
I replaced one set of hubs, halfshafts, and the diff at about 60kmi. At 103Kmi I sold it to a guy who took it out east as a track toy, then sold it to a guy in GA who tracked it heavily. He finally blew up the motor a year or so ago.

This post has been edited by Blainefab: Oct 12 2009, 09:14 PM

[Terp]

That is pretty telling, sounds like they take track abuse much better and do all right performance wise too (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) .

Is an FRC worth trying to find?

Piling on here - After my 94Z28 went to ITE/AIX track only, I bought a 99C5 FRC new, and autocrossed it heavily till the warranty was up, then started tracking it - I was instructing with several different clubs. The Camaro was being developed intensively, finally won a SCCA regional championship with it in 2003. Description of the Camaro is here: http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?showtopic=13432

The Camaro was faster than the Vette on track only in its final season after all the development.

I left the Vette bone stock, cept for Bilstein shocks, tires and brake pads and a careful alignment. I used the same wheels/tires/brakes as the Camaro so it got hand-me-down consumables.
I replaced one set of hubs, halfshafts, and the diff at about 60kmi. At 103Kmi I sold it to a guy who took it out east as a track toy, then sold it to a guy in GA who tracked it heavily. He finally blew up the motor a year or so ago.

[Mojave]

That is pretty telling, sounds like they take track abuse much better and do all right performance wise too (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) .

Is an FRC worth trying to find?

The FRC is nice if you are going to get serious about tracking it, but they are somewhat rare compared to the coupes and Z06's. If it's going to be primarily a street/HPDE car, I would find the nicest car for the least money, regardless of body type.

[Rob Hood]

I don't think doing a clutch job by yourself on a C5 will be much fun, and adding LTs looks to be a real pain too. But I'd cross that bridge when it came to it.

[Blainefab]

I don't think doing a clutch job by yourself on a C5 will be much fun, and adding LTs looks to be a real pain too. But I'd cross that bridge when it came to it.

Ya, the drivetrain configuration makes for some involved maintenance chores. On the plus side, everything is lightweight aluminum, so not as much heavy lifting. When I replaced the diff, I had to take apart the entire rear of the car. A lot of parts, but no one part was more than I could handle alone.

Getting a decent diff in the Camaro is what finally made it faster than the Vette. I recall thinking during my first session with the diff (Auburn Racers) 'this is just like Bigbutt'.

At that time (00-04) I was running about 40 track days a year, mostly the Camaro in race season, and mostly the Vette in the winter. The Vette taught me how to drive, the Camaro taught me how to build a race car.

This post has been edited by Blainefab: Oct 14 2009, 01:26 PM

[GaryK]

A little off topic but...does anybody have any info on upcoming SCCA autocross stock class changes for 2010? I think there were some reorganization options that would put the C5 coupes in a place where they could actually be competitive. If so, I'd have to seriously consider one since I haven't been able to bring myself to pay the premium for a Z06. When do rule changes like this typically come out?

I'd love to have a C5 myself because the regular coupes are a hell of a car for the money and I feel like I could actually track one as opposed to my Camaro in ESP trim (been there, done that, won't do it again).