Already looking to upgrade..., Fbody to Vette Options

[Smitty2919]

Long story short, my wife finally said "Put up or shut up" about me wanting to autocross. So after asking around and doing some research I found my 56K mi full exhaust/short throw shifter/CAI 95 Z28 for $5000. Clean car, no issues and have been having fun with it. I started autocrossing just this season and have been addicted more than I thought I would be (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Within only 1 season I have gone from a stock suspension car to:
Front+rear swaybars
Strano springs+koni SA shocks
LS1 front brake swap
10 spoke SS wheels on V710's (good deal used)
Race seat + 5pt harness
Fays 2 watts link (good deal used)
Full exhaust (from PO)

Looking to get a differential over the winter since the stock one can not hold power to inside rear tire around turns. It did not take me long to do the previous mods because I felt I could out-drive the car. After the differential, it will be a matter of more seat time to fine tune components to get me faster along with just getting behind the wheel.

I have realized that a Miata and a C5 are the best bang for the buck car in terms of price paid and performance. Since I can't look myself in the mirror if I drove a Miata...a Vette it is (plus my father in law and brother in law road race their 67 and 87 vette's so a C5 would be a nice family addition LOL)

I typically fall within the top 25 cars in a group of 80ish cars each event (I'm happy with that only having run a total of 6 events under my belt this season). Plenty of C5's, turbo's miatas, or well sorted/well driven crossfires/evos/lancers are above me. A lot of the people above me have been racing for a while so I know the driver mod is important.

-SO the question to everyone is if I already have my mind set on wanting to get into a base C5 (I couldn't afford a Z) to daily drive and autocross, when would you stop the mods on the Camaro?
-Would you say to autocross for a couple more years in the Fbody THEN step up to a C5?
-If you stayed fbody, what made you keep with it over a C5?

Just curious on people's opinions since I'm sure I'm not the only person looking to do this. I have no goals to go to nationals, nor do I care to build a car toward a specific class. My goal is to get quick times and have a blast in a car I enjoy to drive anywhere yet beat the snot out of on the track and have it perform.

[79T/A]

If your goal is to get in a Vette, stop spending on the Camaro immediately. You will never get the money back. Although one day I plan to be in a Vette, I'm keeping the Z28 as a track car. Why? Because if I stuff it in a wall, rollers are cheap.

[trackbird]

I typically fall within the top 25 cars in a group of 80ish cars each event (I'm happy with that only having run a total of 6 events under my belt this season). Plenty of C5's, turbo's miatas, or well sorted/well driven crossfires/evos/lancers are above me. A lot of the people above me have been racing for a while so I know the driver mod is important.

-SO the question to everyone is if I already have my mind set on wanting to get into a base C5 (I couldn't afford a Z) to daily drive and autocross, when would you stop the mods on the Camaro?
-Would you say to autocross for a couple more years in the Fbody THEN step up to a C5?
-If you stayed fbody, what made you keep with it over a C5?

Just curious on people's opinions since I'm sure I'm not the only person looking to do this. I have no goals to go to nationals, nor do I care to build a car toward a specific class. My goal is to get quick times and have a blast in a car I enjoy to drive anywhere yet beat the snot out of on the track and have it perform.

If you're not looking to go to nationals and you're driving for fun...keep the car you have and "drive for fun". If you're eyeing a Corvette thinking you'll be in the top 5 overall, then you're likely headed into spending lots of money (there's always somebody or something faster). Autocrossing is hard and it takes a while to get good at it, and some people never do. You can have lots of fun in the Camaro and not break the bank.

I'd take autocrossing out of the equation. Do you simply want a Corvette? If so, see below...

If your goal is to get in a Vette, stop spending on the Camaro immediately. You will never get the money back. Although one day I plan to be in a Vette, I'm keeping the Z28 as a track car. Why? Because if I stuff it in a wall, rollers are cheap.

Exactly.

[FASTFATBOY]

If your goal is to get in a Vette, stop spending on the Camaro immediately. You will never get the money back. Although one day I plan to be in a Vette, I'm keeping the Z28 as a track car. Why? Because if I stuff it in a wall, rollers are cheap.

The exact reason I sold my Vette and kept the Fbody.

Rollers falling out of trees, V6 cars etc.

Vette or E36 M3-nope.

[Smitty2919]

I have always liked the idea of owning a C5. I like the looks/power and ability of those cars as a DD and a autocross car.

I see your points about the C5 being more expensive to mod and fix. I realistically only see me doing shocks/brakes/wheels+tires and a tune to be happy with the performance of a C5 for a long time.

I am viewing the next car as a dual purpose DD/autocross car since I can't afford to own both. It will be 90% street driven and at autocross every chance I can get out there. (This may sound dumb) but another reason for the C5 is it will be nice to go out and race it (and place pretty decent due to its inherent performance ability in a fairly stock form), wash it then bring the wife downtown to a nice dinner in it. IMO better build quality, better ride and lets be honest no one pays attention to a catfish F body rolling up to a restaurant (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

But it's like anything, I can keep spending money on the Camaro to get all the weak links worked out to match the ability of a C5 (or close to it), or just go buy a decent C5 and be done with it and retain the mostly stock aspect for comfort/reliability.

Bought my car for $5K and spend another $5-6K on parts or buy a fairly stock C5 with 100K-ish miles for $10-13K and not touch it.

[FASTFATBOY]

Bought my car for $5K and spend another $5-6K on parts or buy a fairly stock C5 with 100K-ish miles for $10-13K and not touch it.

^^^

It never happens like that LOL.

Justifying new cars to yourself, ahh the expensive games we play............... You know it's like crack.

At least the spare wheels/tires work on the Vette.

[Smitty2919]

I admit I find myself trying to justify things. My wife keeps me in line a lot of the time but this car purchase she will be NO help on since she would love it if I got a C5...IF other priorities were taken care of and I had the money.

That's why I ask guys like you that have been in this game longer than I have so you can tell me to stop thinking " the grass is greener" or if the grass IS actually greener lol

Camaro is obviously paid off, owes me nothing, no major issues (aside from side view mirrors sometimes work and rear defrost doesn't stay on long). It simply lacks the "elegance" a C5 would offer as a DD.

I do like the "i don't care" attitude I can have with this car in terms of "hacking" on the car to make it autocross worthy. I would be a lot more standoffish doing things to a C5 I would pay ateast double for. There is resale value to be had with a C5 moreso than my camaro.

[CrashTestDummy]

Sounds like a ESP car, right? Definitely fix the diff, and find some lighter wheels. They'll both add up to faster acceleration all the way around the course. Yes, f-bodys are stupid cheap, comparatively, and fairly common, still.

Forget about the C5 for autocross, unless you're getting a Z06. And if you have your heart set on a Vette, I know where a LT4 C4 is for about $12K, I think (96).

Oh, and get her in the driver's seat!! If she gets involved, it'll move the priority of new parts up the list. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool2.gif)

[Smitty2919]

It is currently a ESP car but I wasn't (nor was the people running the local events) 100% that it is a ESP car. So I said screw it and leave me in ESP.

Why forget about a C5 unless it is a Z06? Is a base C5 with better shocks/brakes (pads and rotors)/swaybars/tune not more than capable autocross car??

I figured a bone stock C5 with tires would perform better at autoctross than how my car is currently setup given all the mods.

And although I have no Optispark issues currently...with all the horror stories I hear about them if I was to buy a Fbody again it would be a LS1 car. That being said, I would also stay away from a C4 Vette. Also due to the "dated" feeling interior. JMHO.

I'm not dead set on a Corvette, there is just nothing else out there that really appeals to me in the sub $15000 range in V8 RWD. I've owned a 04 GTO and that is NOT a car to throw around corners. I have owned a 04 Mustang GT and a 03 Mach 1 and a 99 Cobra...I no longer want a mod motor mustang, plus I prefer the driving position of a Fbody/Vette over a mustang.

Fbody to a Corvette feels like a natural progression to me ahah. But it seems like everyone feels that getting a C5 is a waste of time and money given the condition of my car now and what I have done to it.

[trackbird]

The C4 is hard to get parts for (I have a whole thread about one of those on here, I have something close to $20,000 in it between the engine and all) and parts are pretty scarce and expensive. It's just insane trying to find parts for those. I like the C4, it (can be) fast and it's more "edgy" to drive. A more "raw" driving experience. The C5 is more sanitized. It's a nicer car, more polished, less visceral to drive (I've been debating moving into a C5 and a blower or a 430 hp C6 myself). Honestly, the C4 is quirky like the old Ferrari 308's and Porsche 928's that were from the same era. It's a lot nicer inside than a '70 Chevelle, but not as finished as the later stuff (and not as dated as the late 80's 3rd gen Trans Am interiors). But, knowing what I know...I'll tell you to avoid a C4 (unless you buy a nice ZR1 that needs "nothing" and you plan to do shocks and run the heck out of it).

Remember, clutch jobs in a C5 and C6 really suck. You have to drop the rear transaxle, the torque tube and then work forward to the clutch. That's been the biggest hang up for me to buying a C5 or C6. I used to joke that the C4 was the last Corvette you could work on in a home garage with some hand tools and jack stands. Then I took one apart.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[STFU racing]

funny this came up, I'm saving up and planning to do the exact same thing over the next year or 2. I've got a fairly prepped TA that puts me in SM and I am looking to find a stock c5 zo6 to run a street/stock class. I plan on converting my TA into a track car/CP (gut/cage/etc.)

Ultimately, I plan on racing both but would like a vehicle that I could run competetively in a class and leaving it stock makes the $$investment$$ less since I will be much more restricted. and my wheels/tires can be ran on both.

[Smitty2919]

That is a good point about the clutch job...

I forgot to mention, my wife is into autocross. She has actually run her first event ever this season in her DD 06 Accord 4cyl lol. Next season I am hoping to sign my car up for a 2 person car and have her learn a RWD V8 car.

So overall, it seems a C5 will require THAT much deeper pockets LOL.

[SuperMacGuy]

If you want to be in the top x% of results at AX, more seat time. Good cars help, but good skills go farther. Sam Strano could get FTD in his Camaro and even beat everyone, even the vettes, at our events (SUSQ region). I was regularly in the 10-15 entrants out of 90-120 at our events, and a few times came darn close to FTD, depending on who's there.
A better car certainly is easier to be fast in. But, maybe you can become better by driving in a slightly lesser performing car and really trying to hone skill and eek every last little bit out of your current car. And save money, somewhat. As others have said, it's addictive and will cost money in almost any class, unless you go street tire and truly stay as stock as you can.
My 2cents.

[trackbird]

If you want to be in the top x% of results at AX, more seat time. Good cars help, but good skills go farther. Sam Strano could get FTD in his Camaro and even beat everyone, even the vettes, at our events (SUSQ region). I was regularly in the 10-15 entrants out of 90-120 at our events, and a few times came darn close to FTD, depending on who's there.
A better car certainly is easier to be fast in. But, maybe you can become better by driving in a slightly lesser performing car and really trying to hone skill and eek every last little bit out of your current car. And save money, somewhat. As others have said, it's addictive and will cost money in almost any class, unless you go street tire and truly stay as stock as you can.
My 2cents.

+1

[370camaro95]

Hey dean! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/gr_chug.gif) follow your desires lol.. If you do track days youll find yourself wanting more power, a h/c/i ls1 is pretty equal to a 383 lt1, just food for thought.

This post has been edited by 370camaro95: Oct 7 2014, 03:47 PM

[Smitty2919]

What's up Tyler! I would love to hit HPDE events, but having no trailer and a 3hr drive plus a couple hundred to run is not in the budget nor smart since I refuse to DRIVE my car either to Mid Ohio or Putnam. I would most likely go to my first RR event at Putnam since it is a smaller course so I can get comfortable with the car/speeds you would see. Then move onto Mid Ohio.

Thanks guys, I appreciate the real world opinions from people that have "been there done that".

Due to the inherent price increase of corvette components and that I really don't know what I can do with the Camaro due to the differential issues, I may stick it out with the Camaro for a couple more seasons. I do feel there is more in the car if the diff works correctly, newer/better tires and more seat time.

I was just impressed with the performance of a base C5 (driven by ^ that guy above me). How smooth the car was in transitions, better braking with very "basic" suspension mods. I can't speak to the power since it has some HP mods under the hood now but still more power in stock form than my stock LT1. Hell I had a decent run of 57.XXX. When I rode along, he spun out, finished the course and pulled a 57.1XX or something. Needless to say I was saying "wtf". LOL

My best time of the day was a 54.700 with him coming in I believe in the 50's or 51's (not positive).

This post has been edited by Smitty2919: Oct 7 2014, 05:36 PM

[79T/A]

That's all seat time and proper car prep. Autocross you can make an f-body run with corvettes fairly easily. Hell, the last 2 local events I did there wasnt a faster Corvette, and I was on street tires while they had r-comps. By no means am I an impressive driver. Out on the track is another story though. The Corvette will prevail in that situation, however it always brings a smile to my face when people who underestimate these cars realize how well they can work on track.

[dailydriver]

Has ANYONE actually spoken to Torsen, and asked them if they are EVER going to make a 7.65, 10 bolt, T2R with a case that will not crack at the first turn?? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/gr_confused.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

This post has been edited by dailydriver: Oct 8 2014, 09:41 PM