rmackintosh - Can you tell us more about your car? Options

[GaryK]

Randy- I see from your sig that you run ITE with your Camaro. I'm just curious what all you've done to it. I don't see many fbods roadracing out here with NASA. There are of course more running with SCCA, but I've mostly been to NASA events so I don't get to see much of them. Its interesting to see what others are doing.

One thing in particular I'm wondering about is your front air dam, which I can see in your avatar. When I get done with everything else, I was going to look at building either a removable splitter or an air dam for the nose.

[Jon A]

Here's a better pic:

(IMG:http://www.jonaadland.com/NewPics2/Randyscar.JPG)

[94bird]

Gary, he made the air dam out of the roll plastic from Coleman Racing http://www.colemanracing.com . Later this summer I plan to do something similar.

What are you doing for a wing or spoiler?

I seem to remember your car is now carbureted and is making about 500 HP based on a posting I know I saw you make somewhere within the past month.

[NataSS Inc]

Anyplace In can see more pictures of that car?

[GaryK]

Thanks for the big pic Jon.

Mike, thanks for the info. I was getting ready to order a roll of that stuff so I can work on it when I get time. I'd like to do something similar, but with a splitter as well. I honestly don't know enough about aero yet to determine how effective it will be with just the spoiler versus adding the splitter. I already have a belly pan in the front, so I might have to consider that as well.

You are correct, my car is carb'ed and supposed to be making about 500 hp. I posted a bunch of info on cc.com.

[NataSS Inc]

IMHO a splitter on the nose of an Fbody is worthless. the frontal area of the car is to flat to really see the benefits of one. If it does work, IMO it wouldnt be worth the time to put one on. And really wouldnt shine until you got WAY up into the MPH's. the big thing you need to worry about is the air that is passing under the car while you are at speed. Less=more. and with the addition of a good solid airdam that goes to the ground this will really minimizethe air going under the car but does require re routing the air flow to the radiator. the big air dam will also increase the amount of downforce on the nose at high speed making it more stable.

there are a number of things you can do to an Fbody to increase how "slick" the car is. But unless you are seeing some serious speeds at the track I don't think it would be worth it. Especially if the car is also a street car. But if you don't mind constantly taking off/putting on parts it mightbe worth looking into.

[94bird]

Quite a few of us have road racers now that see no street use. The speeds we would typically get up to at places like VIR would be in the 150 MPH range I think. Gary might be a little faster than that. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

[GaryK]

I don't know how fast it will really go, but I went to VIR full for a test day a while back. First session out the clutch started slipping BAD. Even with me feathering the throttle and accelerating relatively slowly, I was able to wind out top gear. With the current gearing, thats about 152 mph, and I know I'll need a lot more than that if I'm able to actually use all the power this thing makes. I'll be changing the ring and pinion, probably for a top speed of at least 170...just to make sure I don't run out at tracks like VIR.

Function on the track is top priority. It will probably be removable, so it doesn't matter how low the air dam and/or splitter is. Anyway, I also have to wonder if its really worth the trouble of building a proper splitter on this car.

[Jon A]

Yes, it is worth the trouble. A splitter will help these cars the same way it helps any car. In roadracing, it's not all about being "slick." In fact, many things (like a big rear wing) make the car less slick. It is all about downforce.

Keeping air from entering below the nose of the car (relocating the radiator intake to the front) is a good step. The less air that gets under the nose, the better--not just for front downforce, but downforce along the length of the car (this is what the sideskirts do--prevent air from entering the low pressure area under the car from the sides). You don't need to be going a million miles an hour to gain benefits either. Look at what a simple air damn does to the front lift on the 911:

(IMG:http://www.jonaadland.com/NewPics2/Porschelift.jpg)

At only 100 MPH the front axle is being lifted by more than 60 lbs. That's taking away a lot of cornering grip. The simple air dam reduces that to nil. The only difference for an F-Body is how much downforce or lift it has stock. Improving upon that is going to be an improvement.

Something like this:

(IMG:http://www.derhaag.com/images/1995bodyworksmall.jpg)

Is going to provide a big benefit.

[94bird]

Improving upon that is going to be an improvement.

Sorry, but I couldn't help but chuckle when I read that sentence. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Jon A]

Doh! That was supposed to read:

Improving upon that is still going to be an improvement, regardless of what the stock numbers are.

I knew I hit that "Add Reply" button prematurely....

[rmackintosh]

Well, I can tell you anything you want about my car. I have about 180 pics of it being built from a car I bought on eBay in Kansas for $3500 and had shipped out to California a little over a year ago. The pics are not online (one of these days), but I can email anyone who wants pics of most of the car....gimme a specific area you want to look at. I will give the short story here:

I spent most of the initial build building a car that was structurally built as well as I could at the time. Assisting me was a fabricator who has spent 30+ years in the race car fabrication business building everything from Trans-Am/GT-1 cars to IT cars for the SCCA and other clubs. The roll cage is a work of art....much along the lines of a World Challenge car...looking at Gary's pics of Lou's car....I see a lot of the same principles...except it is all brand new! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I removed as much weight as I could...including all the front/rear bumper supports, extra sheet metal, brackets, etc. and fabricated new bumpers/supports out of roll bar tubing and square stock. The interior is gutted with the stock dash....plastic shell only....replaced with a set of fully mechanical Autometer guages fabbed into the dash. I got out the grinder and ground off EVERY seat belt bracket or other metal that is now unused in the car that came from the factory. The suspension is Ground Control...wanted LG, but couldn't afford to buy the adjustable shocks with the system so went with Ground Control/Koni....to get full adjustability. Went 32mm/Unbalanced Engineering 19mm swaybars...I LIKE adjustability. Springs 650/175. I don't have much time in the car but I believe that I will want it a lot stiffer in the future....I come from racing a SUPER STIFF Datsun 510 for years. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) So stiffer springs/bars may be coming as the budget allows. The drivetrain was left stock except for the bolt ons, Dynatech headers, X-pipe dumped before the diff, 3.73's, and a T2R for budget reasons. Some of that was replaced due to breakage this year....new Griffen Race Radiator, new Spicer/custom aluminum driveshaft, used LG set up 5.5 Quartermaster triple disc going in, and I am rebuilding a 4 bolt main Vette motor with a ZZ4 forged crank, CC 227/233XL Cam, and some REAL NICE TPiS heads.....looking to touch 400rwhp with the light clutch! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Given my budget concerns and the fact that I did NOT want to overbuild the car for the ITE folks around here....did NOT want to get protested first time out....there is plenty I will be doing in the coming years to upgrade to include:

Fuel Cell/System
Roll Cage through firewall to shock towers
Random Tech/LG torque arm
Tube Rear Control Arms
Tube Front Lower Control Arms
LG front crossmember (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
...
....
.....

Too many parts, too little time...WAY too little money!

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[rmackintosh]

....oh and I would prefer a splitter also, just ran out of time and could not think of an easy way to get it done....anybody does it....let me know!

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[1LEThumper]

Randy....if you want....you can email me some pics of the car...and I could put them up for ya. I have DSL line here at the apartment so it wouldn't take me to long to put them up. If there are any ones in particular you would want to show....just shoot me an email.

[rmackintosh]

Ok...I will email my favorites to you in few....

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[GaryK]

Randy....if you want....you can email me some pics of the car...and I could put them up for ya. I have DSL line here at the apartment so it wouldn't take me to long to put them up. If there are any ones in particular you would want to show....just shoot me an email.

D'oh! I was about to say the same thing. Well, offer still stands...I can host some pics on my page if you want.

[rmackintosh]

Gary, I just sent a bunch to Anthony......

Anthony, if it is easier, forward them to Gary... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[1LEThumper]

HAHA...yeah I've got them going up as well speak

Keep checking as I'm still uploading them
http://members6.clubphoto.com/anthony54586...488/guest.phtml
That link should work.....gotta lot to load up so keep checkin as the night goes on.

[GaryK]

Cool!

Thats an interesting monkey bar design (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[rmackintosh]

Ok....I comment some...

pic 22 and 38 are my favorite of the DESTRUCTION (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) that goes on before CONSTRUCTION (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) begins......

22 = I used a torch to burn out all the seam sealer gunk in the car....had several fires going on in there at once! Looks nice painted w/o that goop

38 = THE HUGE MOUND OF WIRES UNDER THE STOCK DASH ( Now I have about 10 wires!) Ah.....Mike, for your information...that mound of wires was about 25 lbs!!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

52 = the cage early on

78 = the cage done and two tone interior paint...get LOTS of comments on that! People notice it while I am ON TRACK and come to look! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)